xmix wrote: » Aszkalon wrote: » unknownsystemerror wrote: » You shot your shot, you got a response, it wasn't what you wanted, now evolve or die. Ouch 😂 you made it sound brutal AND funny at the same time. 🤣 I personally would appreciate if one of the Developers answers me directly here in the Forum. I think i got once(?) a Reply from one of the Admins here ? Personally i am more confused. " xmix's Concern " is that the Servers "might become broken" or so ?? How so ? How could Servers get in trouble by not being a 1-Character-only-type of Server ? 🤔 So the number of players is not increasing, but professions and castes are constantly increasing because of altos. over time professions will have less value if everyone has a profession by alt character. by placing alt characters in different cities and changing 1 character, you can travel about fast and take part in events that you wouldn't be able to get there. you can make alt troll characters called Askallon and I could hunt your guild members and there are no consequences because there is only 1 alt character You can register for events that you won't participate in afterwards and it doesn't matter because you're an alt character, so I don't care what your reputation everyone will have a priest and a tank character and they don't look for people to go fight, they just change characters and there is already 1 priest in the team and you don't have to look for them or recruit the guild I think these can worsen the quality of the server, but these can also be just assumptions, it will not be possible to do any of them, only I see horrors
Aszkalon wrote: » unknownsystemerror wrote: » You shot your shot, you got a response, it wasn't what you wanted, now evolve or die. Ouch 😂 you made it sound brutal AND funny at the same time. 🤣 I personally would appreciate if one of the Developers answers me directly here in the Forum. I think i got once(?) a Reply from one of the Admins here ? Personally i am more confused. " xmix's Concern " is that the Servers "might become broken" or so ?? How so ? How could Servers get in trouble by not being a 1-Character-only-type of Server ? 🤔
unknownsystemerror wrote: » You shot your shot, you got a response, it wasn't what you wanted, now evolve or die.
Azherae wrote: » xmix wrote: » Aszkalon wrote: » unknownsystemerror wrote: » You shot your shot, you got a response, it wasn't what you wanted, now evolve or die. Ouch 😂 you made it sound brutal AND funny at the same time. 🤣 I personally would appreciate if one of the Developers answers me directly here in the Forum. I think i got once(?) a Reply from one of the Admins here ? Personally i am more confused. " xmix's Concern " is that the Servers "might become broken" or so ?? How so ? How could Servers get in trouble by not being a 1-Character-only-type of Server ? 🤔 So the number of players is not increasing, but professions and castes are constantly increasing because of altos. over time professions will have less value if everyone has a profession by alt character. by placing alt characters in different cities and changing 1 character, you can travel about fast and take part in events that you wouldn't be able to get there. you can make alt troll characters called Askallon and I could hunt your guild members and there are no consequences because there is only 1 alt character You can register for events that you won't participate in afterwards and it doesn't matter because you're an alt character, so I don't care what your reputation everyone will have a priest and a tank character and they don't look for people to go fight, they just change characters and there is already 1 priest in the team and you don't have to look for them or recruit the guild I think these can worsen the quality of the server, but these can also be just assumptions, it will not be possible to do any of them, only I see horrors You're used to playing games like this. I'm not saying Ashes won't turn out to be a game like this, but it's not a thing that automatically happens. Maybe we get a little less socialization because instead of having to meet a whole new Rogue player, one of your guildmates has a strong enough Rogue Alt for whatever the goal is, but that's about it. Everything else is a design thing that Intrepid can and probably should fix even on a single-character server. Are you used to a lot of games with time-wasting grind and a lot of rewards that are given to the player 'just for leveling up or showing up to things'?
xmix wrote: » Azherae wrote: » xmix wrote: » Aszkalon wrote: » unknownsystemerror wrote: » You shot your shot, you got a response, it wasn't what you wanted, now evolve or die. Ouch 😂 you made it sound brutal AND funny at the same time. 🤣 I personally would appreciate if one of the Developers answers me directly here in the Forum. I think i got once(?) a Reply from one of the Admins here ? Personally i am more confused. " xmix's Concern " is that the Servers "might become broken" or so ?? How so ? How could Servers get in trouble by not being a 1-Character-only-type of Server ? 🤔 So the number of players is not increasing, but professions and castes are constantly increasing because of altos. over time professions will have less value if everyone has a profession by alt character. by placing alt characters in different cities and changing 1 character, you can travel about fast and take part in events that you wouldn't be able to get there. you can make alt troll characters called Askallon and I could hunt your guild members and there are no consequences because there is only 1 alt character You can register for events that you won't participate in afterwards and it doesn't matter because you're an alt character, so I don't care what your reputation everyone will have a priest and a tank character and they don't look for people to go fight, they just change characters and there is already 1 priest in the team and you don't have to look for them or recruit the guild I think these can worsen the quality of the server, but these can also be just assumptions, it will not be possible to do any of them, only I see horrors You're used to playing games like this. I'm not saying Ashes won't turn out to be a game like this, but it's not a thing that automatically happens. Maybe we get a little less socialization because instead of having to meet a whole new Rogue player, one of your guildmates has a strong enough Rogue Alt for whatever the goal is, but that's about it. Everything else is a design thing that Intrepid can and probably should fix even on a single-character server. Are you used to a lot of games with time-wasting grind and a lot of rewards that are given to the player 'just for leveling up or showing up to things'? These are long-term problems that I think we will experience after 6 months or 1 year. 2 people play the game for the same amount of time, but one invested his time in 1 character, the other leveled up 8 characters, both of them played 800-800 hours in the same amount of time. And they will have a character that uses the same profession as yours. And over time, there may be 10-50 other people who level more altos with the same profession as yours in 1 city. You see no problem with that? If not, that's fine. I just want to have the option to have such a server with 1 character on 1 server. This also has problematic sides. But I think less than with the alt server.
Azherae wrote: » xmix wrote: » Azherae wrote: » xmix wrote: » Aszkalon wrote: » unknownsystemerror wrote: » You shot your shot, you got a response, it wasn't what you wanted, now evolve or die. Ouch 😂 you made it sound brutal AND funny at the same time. 🤣 I personally would appreciate if one of the Developers answers me directly here in the Forum. I think i got once(?) a Reply from one of the Admins here ? Personally i am more confused. " xmix's Concern " is that the Servers "might become broken" or so ?? How so ? How could Servers get in trouble by not being a 1-Character-only-type of Server ? 🤔 So the number of players is not increasing, but professions and castes are constantly increasing because of altos. over time professions will have less value if everyone has a profession by alt character. by placing alt characters in different cities and changing 1 character, you can travel about fast and take part in events that you wouldn't be able to get there. you can make alt troll characters called Askallon and I could hunt your guild members and there are no consequences because there is only 1 alt character You can register for events that you won't participate in afterwards and it doesn't matter because you're an alt character, so I don't care what your reputation everyone will have a priest and a tank character and they don't look for people to go fight, they just change characters and there is already 1 priest in the team and you don't have to look for them or recruit the guild I think these can worsen the quality of the server, but these can also be just assumptions, it will not be possible to do any of them, only I see horrors You're used to playing games like this. I'm not saying Ashes won't turn out to be a game like this, but it's not a thing that automatically happens. Maybe we get a little less socialization because instead of having to meet a whole new Rogue player, one of your guildmates has a strong enough Rogue Alt for whatever the goal is, but that's about it. Everything else is a design thing that Intrepid can and probably should fix even on a single-character server. Are you used to a lot of games with time-wasting grind and a lot of rewards that are given to the player 'just for leveling up or showing up to things'? These are long-term problems that I think we will experience after 6 months or 1 year. 2 people play the game for the same amount of time, but one invested his time in 1 character, the other leveled up 8 characters, both of them played 800-800 hours in the same amount of time. And they will have a character that uses the same profession as yours. And over time, there may be 10-50 other people who level more altos with the same profession as yours in 1 city. You see no problem with that? If not, that's fine. I just want to have the option to have such a server with 1 character on 1 server. This also has problematic sides. But I think less than with the alt server. I've been playing that game type for over 10 years (two of them, technically). I've also played other games that don't do it like that. The results are different. So it's not that I don't see a problem with it, I'm trying to say that the problem doesn't automatically happen. There are definitely many MMOs where 'just playing more' is enough to have this result. But it's not guaranteed, it's a design question.
xmix wrote: » So you can only be the best in 1 profession per character.
Dygz wrote: » A character may only ever be a Master in up to 3 professions and Grandmaster in up to 2 professions across all artisan branches.
Krisco wrote: » The day WoW let you make an alliance character and a horde character on the same server... the game was over. Because the entire series was based on the war between the 2 factions. This game... is about being someone in the world of Verra. The minute you're allowed to be 2 people in Verra, it ruins the appeal. On different servers, sure... but more than one character on one server is likely to kill the vibe of reliance on each other and making a name for yourself, be it good or bad.
Krisco wrote: » The day WoW let you make an alliance character and a horde character on the same server... the game was over.
xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Dygz wrote: » xmix wrote: » Anyway, this is an almost 1 year old post. I only wrote 1 answer, it was thrown up again by others. The forum is there to draw attention to problems and we hope that they will deal with it.and their official position is that there will be no differences between the servers.but I think the alt characters will slowly destroy the base of the game. it will impair trade and communication between characters.let's say we take team consisting of 6 people.each has 3-5 alt characters.the number of major professions is 20 or less.number of major castes 8.so this team covers the whole game they can be completely independent.they don't trade and do everything for themselves and will go everywhere in teams, 3 teams in 3 cities and that's 6 people you can hold back newcomers by making a lot of alts.and you don't take part in the end game for a long time because you want to have more characters and professions. Even a team of 6 players with 5 alts cannot progress a Node very far on their own. They cannot win a Siege. They will still need to rely on help from other players to manage Mayoral Caravans. They cannot win Castle Sieges on their own. Highly unlikely they will be able to manage Social Orgs and Religious Orgs on their own. They would still very probably want to have alliances with some Guilds. Not everyone's goal is to reach the top or take part in the Castle sieges.many people like pve and trade.if 1 person will be able to handle 3-8 professions, it can take the time of the entire game.you don't have to go to pvp.and it's better to draw an extra alt character than to participate in pvp because in the long run the alt character is worth more to him.and these people will disappear for 5-12 months depending on how difficult the character and the development of the professions will be.the professions are important, but I wouldn't allow people to dive into it at such a level and because of this, the pvp content and everything else would be pushed into the background.it is possible to solve this within the game, but they don't communicate that much.there are times when I would regret spending it alt time. But then it wouldn't bother me that someone has more characters. The time investment for what you are describing on the crafting level would be so enormous that very few people would or even could accomplish it. I tried this in FFXIV, Eve Online and in SWG (and even in EQ2 a bit) and the time investment long term is not realistic. Very few people can hold up, and even the few that could didn't destroy the economy. And keep in mind, FFXIV, SWG and EQ2 all had (or currently have) far smaller servers and fewer market locations than Ashes is planning. The closest example is Eve, and there, individuals are not the issue. Massive Corps with thousands of players are the ones who can actually influence and control markets. I understand it's a concern for some, but in the last 20 years I've yet to see individuals with too many alts ruin economies. there are 3 blacksmiths in the city whose main character is goldsmiths, they will make a living from this as this will be one of your main sources of income. They will open +6 sub-character blacksmiths for you. logic out the rest by what will happen to the market.it doesn't matter if 5 people or 15 people have the chance to collect.I think this could be a problem with the alt in the longer term, not after 1-2 months but within half a year.maybe the wood or metal you farm could be sold for 1 silver, but they won't even buy it for 10 bronze anymore.but it depends on the balance anyway. Oh I understand what you are describing. I'm saying it doesn't play out that way in real life. An over saturated market by one player drives prices down, which drives away competion. Which then raises prices which brings back competition. The small profit margins make it barely worth the extraordinary effort in competitive times, followed by frustration in noncompetitive times when he starts getting undercut once again. That's just one example of the market correcting itself. Your rationalizations don't factor in any human or market dynamics. Also dividing the player base (especially in the early days of the game) or denying alts cause far more problems than they solve. You're too optimistic, what can go wrong will go wrong, it's better to look at it that way, because that's how games work. If they come up with a balance in the beginning, the players will upset it anyway. Because of Altok, the number of professions will increase, but the number of players will remain the same.
Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Dygz wrote: » xmix wrote: » Anyway, this is an almost 1 year old post. I only wrote 1 answer, it was thrown up again by others. The forum is there to draw attention to problems and we hope that they will deal with it.and their official position is that there will be no differences between the servers.but I think the alt characters will slowly destroy the base of the game. it will impair trade and communication between characters.let's say we take team consisting of 6 people.each has 3-5 alt characters.the number of major professions is 20 or less.number of major castes 8.so this team covers the whole game they can be completely independent.they don't trade and do everything for themselves and will go everywhere in teams, 3 teams in 3 cities and that's 6 people you can hold back newcomers by making a lot of alts.and you don't take part in the end game for a long time because you want to have more characters and professions. Even a team of 6 players with 5 alts cannot progress a Node very far on their own. They cannot win a Siege. They will still need to rely on help from other players to manage Mayoral Caravans. They cannot win Castle Sieges on their own. Highly unlikely they will be able to manage Social Orgs and Religious Orgs on their own. They would still very probably want to have alliances with some Guilds. Not everyone's goal is to reach the top or take part in the Castle sieges.many people like pve and trade.if 1 person will be able to handle 3-8 professions, it can take the time of the entire game.you don't have to go to pvp.and it's better to draw an extra alt character than to participate in pvp because in the long run the alt character is worth more to him.and these people will disappear for 5-12 months depending on how difficult the character and the development of the professions will be.the professions are important, but I wouldn't allow people to dive into it at such a level and because of this, the pvp content and everything else would be pushed into the background.it is possible to solve this within the game, but they don't communicate that much.there are times when I would regret spending it alt time. But then it wouldn't bother me that someone has more characters. The time investment for what you are describing on the crafting level would be so enormous that very few people would or even could accomplish it. I tried this in FFXIV, Eve Online and in SWG (and even in EQ2 a bit) and the time investment long term is not realistic. Very few people can hold up, and even the few that could didn't destroy the economy. And keep in mind, FFXIV, SWG and EQ2 all had (or currently have) far smaller servers and fewer market locations than Ashes is planning. The closest example is Eve, and there, individuals are not the issue. Massive Corps with thousands of players are the ones who can actually influence and control markets. I understand it's a concern for some, but in the last 20 years I've yet to see individuals with too many alts ruin economies. there are 3 blacksmiths in the city whose main character is goldsmiths, they will make a living from this as this will be one of your main sources of income. They will open +6 sub-character blacksmiths for you. logic out the rest by what will happen to the market.it doesn't matter if 5 people or 15 people have the chance to collect.I think this could be a problem with the alt in the longer term, not after 1-2 months but within half a year.maybe the wood or metal you farm could be sold for 1 silver, but they won't even buy it for 10 bronze anymore.but it depends on the balance anyway. Oh I understand what you are describing. I'm saying it doesn't play out that way in real life. An over saturated market by one player drives prices down, which drives away competion. Which then raises prices which brings back competition. The small profit margins make it barely worth the extraordinary effort in competitive times, followed by frustration in noncompetitive times when he starts getting undercut once again. That's just one example of the market correcting itself. Your rationalizations don't factor in any human or market dynamics. Also dividing the player base (especially in the early days of the game) or denying alts cause far more problems than they solve.
xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Dygz wrote: » xmix wrote: » Anyway, this is an almost 1 year old post. I only wrote 1 answer, it was thrown up again by others. The forum is there to draw attention to problems and we hope that they will deal with it.and their official position is that there will be no differences between the servers.but I think the alt characters will slowly destroy the base of the game. it will impair trade and communication between characters.let's say we take team consisting of 6 people.each has 3-5 alt characters.the number of major professions is 20 or less.number of major castes 8.so this team covers the whole game they can be completely independent.they don't trade and do everything for themselves and will go everywhere in teams, 3 teams in 3 cities and that's 6 people you can hold back newcomers by making a lot of alts.and you don't take part in the end game for a long time because you want to have more characters and professions. Even a team of 6 players with 5 alts cannot progress a Node very far on their own. They cannot win a Siege. They will still need to rely on help from other players to manage Mayoral Caravans. They cannot win Castle Sieges on their own. Highly unlikely they will be able to manage Social Orgs and Religious Orgs on their own. They would still very probably want to have alliances with some Guilds. Not everyone's goal is to reach the top or take part in the Castle sieges.many people like pve and trade.if 1 person will be able to handle 3-8 professions, it can take the time of the entire game.you don't have to go to pvp.and it's better to draw an extra alt character than to participate in pvp because in the long run the alt character is worth more to him.and these people will disappear for 5-12 months depending on how difficult the character and the development of the professions will be.the professions are important, but I wouldn't allow people to dive into it at such a level and because of this, the pvp content and everything else would be pushed into the background.it is possible to solve this within the game, but they don't communicate that much.there are times when I would regret spending it alt time. But then it wouldn't bother me that someone has more characters. The time investment for what you are describing on the crafting level would be so enormous that very few people would or even could accomplish it. I tried this in FFXIV, Eve Online and in SWG (and even in EQ2 a bit) and the time investment long term is not realistic. Very few people can hold up, and even the few that could didn't destroy the economy. And keep in mind, FFXIV, SWG and EQ2 all had (or currently have) far smaller servers and fewer market locations than Ashes is planning. The closest example is Eve, and there, individuals are not the issue. Massive Corps with thousands of players are the ones who can actually influence and control markets. I understand it's a concern for some, but in the last 20 years I've yet to see individuals with too many alts ruin economies. there are 3 blacksmiths in the city whose main character is goldsmiths, they will make a living from this as this will be one of your main sources of income. They will open +6 sub-character blacksmiths for you. logic out the rest by what will happen to the market.it doesn't matter if 5 people or 15 people have the chance to collect.I think this could be a problem with the alt in the longer term, not after 1-2 months but within half a year.maybe the wood or metal you farm could be sold for 1 silver, but they won't even buy it for 10 bronze anymore.but it depends on the balance anyway.
Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Dygz wrote: » xmix wrote: » Anyway, this is an almost 1 year old post. I only wrote 1 answer, it was thrown up again by others. The forum is there to draw attention to problems and we hope that they will deal with it.and their official position is that there will be no differences between the servers.but I think the alt characters will slowly destroy the base of the game. it will impair trade and communication between characters.let's say we take team consisting of 6 people.each has 3-5 alt characters.the number of major professions is 20 or less.number of major castes 8.so this team covers the whole game they can be completely independent.they don't trade and do everything for themselves and will go everywhere in teams, 3 teams in 3 cities and that's 6 people you can hold back newcomers by making a lot of alts.and you don't take part in the end game for a long time because you want to have more characters and professions. Even a team of 6 players with 5 alts cannot progress a Node very far on their own. They cannot win a Siege. They will still need to rely on help from other players to manage Mayoral Caravans. They cannot win Castle Sieges on their own. Highly unlikely they will be able to manage Social Orgs and Religious Orgs on their own. They would still very probably want to have alliances with some Guilds. Not everyone's goal is to reach the top or take part in the Castle sieges.many people like pve and trade.if 1 person will be able to handle 3-8 professions, it can take the time of the entire game.you don't have to go to pvp.and it's better to draw an extra alt character than to participate in pvp because in the long run the alt character is worth more to him.and these people will disappear for 5-12 months depending on how difficult the character and the development of the professions will be.the professions are important, but I wouldn't allow people to dive into it at such a level and because of this, the pvp content and everything else would be pushed into the background.it is possible to solve this within the game, but they don't communicate that much.there are times when I would regret spending it alt time. But then it wouldn't bother me that someone has more characters. The time investment for what you are describing on the crafting level would be so enormous that very few people would or even could accomplish it. I tried this in FFXIV, Eve Online and in SWG (and even in EQ2 a bit) and the time investment long term is not realistic. Very few people can hold up, and even the few that could didn't destroy the economy. And keep in mind, FFXIV, SWG and EQ2 all had (or currently have) far smaller servers and fewer market locations than Ashes is planning. The closest example is Eve, and there, individuals are not the issue. Massive Corps with thousands of players are the ones who can actually influence and control markets. I understand it's a concern for some, but in the last 20 years I've yet to see individuals with too many alts ruin economies.
xmix wrote: » Dygz wrote: » xmix wrote: » Anyway, this is an almost 1 year old post. I only wrote 1 answer, it was thrown up again by others. The forum is there to draw attention to problems and we hope that they will deal with it.and their official position is that there will be no differences between the servers.but I think the alt characters will slowly destroy the base of the game. it will impair trade and communication between characters.let's say we take team consisting of 6 people.each has 3-5 alt characters.the number of major professions is 20 or less.number of major castes 8.so this team covers the whole game they can be completely independent.they don't trade and do everything for themselves and will go everywhere in teams, 3 teams in 3 cities and that's 6 people you can hold back newcomers by making a lot of alts.and you don't take part in the end game for a long time because you want to have more characters and professions. Even a team of 6 players with 5 alts cannot progress a Node very far on their own. They cannot win a Siege. They will still need to rely on help from other players to manage Mayoral Caravans. They cannot win Castle Sieges on their own. Highly unlikely they will be able to manage Social Orgs and Religious Orgs on their own. They would still very probably want to have alliances with some Guilds. Not everyone's goal is to reach the top or take part in the Castle sieges.many people like pve and trade.if 1 person will be able to handle 3-8 professions, it can take the time of the entire game.you don't have to go to pvp.and it's better to draw an extra alt character than to participate in pvp because in the long run the alt character is worth more to him.and these people will disappear for 5-12 months depending on how difficult the character and the development of the professions will be.the professions are important, but I wouldn't allow people to dive into it at such a level and because of this, the pvp content and everything else would be pushed into the background.it is possible to solve this within the game, but they don't communicate that much.there are times when I would regret spending it alt time. But then it wouldn't bother me that someone has more characters.
Dygz wrote: » xmix wrote: » Anyway, this is an almost 1 year old post. I only wrote 1 answer, it was thrown up again by others. The forum is there to draw attention to problems and we hope that they will deal with it.and their official position is that there will be no differences between the servers.but I think the alt characters will slowly destroy the base of the game. it will impair trade and communication between characters.let's say we take team consisting of 6 people.each has 3-5 alt characters.the number of major professions is 20 or less.number of major castes 8.so this team covers the whole game they can be completely independent.they don't trade and do everything for themselves and will go everywhere in teams, 3 teams in 3 cities and that's 6 people you can hold back newcomers by making a lot of alts.and you don't take part in the end game for a long time because you want to have more characters and professions. Even a team of 6 players with 5 alts cannot progress a Node very far on their own. They cannot win a Siege. They will still need to rely on help from other players to manage Mayoral Caravans. They cannot win Castle Sieges on their own. Highly unlikely they will be able to manage Social Orgs and Religious Orgs on their own. They would still very probably want to have alliances with some Guilds.
xmix wrote: » Anyway, this is an almost 1 year old post. I only wrote 1 answer, it was thrown up again by others. The forum is there to draw attention to problems and we hope that they will deal with it.and their official position is that there will be no differences between the servers.but I think the alt characters will slowly destroy the base of the game. it will impair trade and communication between characters.let's say we take team consisting of 6 people.each has 3-5 alt characters.the number of major professions is 20 or less.number of major castes 8.so this team covers the whole game they can be completely independent.they don't trade and do everything for themselves and will go everywhere in teams, 3 teams in 3 cities and that's 6 people you can hold back newcomers by making a lot of alts.and you don't take part in the end game for a long time because you want to have more characters and professions.
Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Dygz wrote: » xmix wrote: » Anyway, this is an almost 1 year old post. I only wrote 1 answer, it was thrown up again by others. The forum is there to draw attention to problems and we hope that they will deal with it.and their official position is that there will be no differences between the servers.but I think the alt characters will slowly destroy the base of the game. it will impair trade and communication between characters.let's say we take team consisting of 6 people.each has 3-5 alt characters.the number of major professions is 20 or less.number of major castes 8.so this team covers the whole game they can be completely independent.they don't trade and do everything for themselves and will go everywhere in teams, 3 teams in 3 cities and that's 6 people you can hold back newcomers by making a lot of alts.and you don't take part in the end game for a long time because you want to have more characters and professions. Even a team of 6 players with 5 alts cannot progress a Node very far on their own. They cannot win a Siege. They will still need to rely on help from other players to manage Mayoral Caravans. They cannot win Castle Sieges on their own. Highly unlikely they will be able to manage Social Orgs and Religious Orgs on their own. They would still very probably want to have alliances with some Guilds. Not everyone's goal is to reach the top or take part in the Castle sieges.many people like pve and trade.if 1 person will be able to handle 3-8 professions, it can take the time of the entire game.you don't have to go to pvp.and it's better to draw an extra alt character than to participate in pvp because in the long run the alt character is worth more to him.and these people will disappear for 5-12 months depending on how difficult the character and the development of the professions will be.the professions are important, but I wouldn't allow people to dive into it at such a level and because of this, the pvp content and everything else would be pushed into the background.it is possible to solve this within the game, but they don't communicate that much.there are times when I would regret spending it alt time. But then it wouldn't bother me that someone has more characters. The time investment for what you are describing on the crafting level would be so enormous that very few people would or even could accomplish it. I tried this in FFXIV, Eve Online and in SWG (and even in EQ2 a bit) and the time investment long term is not realistic. Very few people can hold up, and even the few that could didn't destroy the economy. And keep in mind, FFXIV, SWG and EQ2 all had (or currently have) far smaller servers and fewer market locations than Ashes is planning. The closest example is Eve, and there, individuals are not the issue. Massive Corps with thousands of players are the ones who can actually influence and control markets. I understand it's a concern for some, but in the last 20 years I've yet to see individuals with too many alts ruin economies. there are 3 blacksmiths in the city whose main character is goldsmiths, they will make a living from this as this will be one of your main sources of income. They will open +6 sub-character blacksmiths for you. logic out the rest by what will happen to the market.it doesn't matter if 5 people or 15 people have the chance to collect.I think this could be a problem with the alt in the longer term, not after 1-2 months but within half a year.maybe the wood or metal you farm could be sold for 1 silver, but they won't even buy it for 10 bronze anymore.but it depends on the balance anyway. Oh I understand what you are describing. I'm saying it doesn't play out that way in real life. An over saturated market by one player drives prices down, which drives away competion. Which then raises prices which brings back competition. The small profit margins make it barely worth the extraordinary effort in competitive times, followed by frustration in noncompetitive times when he starts getting undercut once again. That's just one example of the market correcting itself. Your rationalizations don't factor in any human or market dynamics. Also dividing the player base (especially in the early days of the game) or denying alts cause far more problems than they solve. You're too optimistic, what can go wrong will go wrong, it's better to look at it that way, because that's how games work. If they come up with a balance in the beginning, the players will upset it anyway. Because of Altok, the number of professions will increase, but the number of players will remain the same. I'm giving you specific examples from comparable games that are live right now as proof. WoW, GW2, and ESO are not comparable examples, their economies are nowhere near as complex. . If you want to fracture the player base and get rid of alts, you can add this to the pile of dead mmos.
Noaani wrote: » Krisco wrote: » The day WoW let you make an alliance character and a horde character on the same server... the game was over. I hate to break this to you my dude, but WoW is still going.
xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Dygz wrote: » xmix wrote: » Anyway, this is an almost 1 year old post. I only wrote 1 answer, it was thrown up again by others. The forum is there to draw attention to problems and we hope that they will deal with it.and their official position is that there will be no differences between the servers.but I think the alt characters will slowly destroy the base of the game. it will impair trade and communication between characters.let's say we take team consisting of 6 people.each has 3-5 alt characters.the number of major professions is 20 or less.number of major castes 8.so this team covers the whole game they can be completely independent.they don't trade and do everything for themselves and will go everywhere in teams, 3 teams in 3 cities and that's 6 people you can hold back newcomers by making a lot of alts.and you don't take part in the end game for a long time because you want to have more characters and professions. Even a team of 6 players with 5 alts cannot progress a Node very far on their own. They cannot win a Siege. They will still need to rely on help from other players to manage Mayoral Caravans. They cannot win Castle Sieges on their own. Highly unlikely they will be able to manage Social Orgs and Religious Orgs on their own. They would still very probably want to have alliances with some Guilds. Not everyone's goal is to reach the top or take part in the Castle sieges.many people like pve and trade.if 1 person will be able to handle 3-8 professions, it can take the time of the entire game.you don't have to go to pvp.and it's better to draw an extra alt character than to participate in pvp because in the long run the alt character is worth more to him.and these people will disappear for 5-12 months depending on how difficult the character and the development of the professions will be.the professions are important, but I wouldn't allow people to dive into it at such a level and because of this, the pvp content and everything else would be pushed into the background.it is possible to solve this within the game, but they don't communicate that much.there are times when I would regret spending it alt time. But then it wouldn't bother me that someone has more characters. The time investment for what you are describing on the crafting level would be so enormous that very few people would or even could accomplish it. I tried this in FFXIV, Eve Online and in SWG (and even in EQ2 a bit) and the time investment long term is not realistic. Very few people can hold up, and even the few that could didn't destroy the economy. And keep in mind, FFXIV, SWG and EQ2 all had (or currently have) far smaller servers and fewer market locations than Ashes is planning. The closest example is Eve, and there, individuals are not the issue. Massive Corps with thousands of players are the ones who can actually influence and control markets. I understand it's a concern for some, but in the last 20 years I've yet to see individuals with too many alts ruin economies. there are 3 blacksmiths in the city whose main character is goldsmiths, they will make a living from this as this will be one of your main sources of income. They will open +6 sub-character blacksmiths for you. logic out the rest by what will happen to the market.it doesn't matter if 5 people or 15 people have the chance to collect.I think this could be a problem with the alt in the longer term, not after 1-2 months but within half a year.maybe the wood or metal you farm could be sold for 1 silver, but they won't even buy it for 10 bronze anymore.but it depends on the balance anyway. Oh I understand what you are describing. I'm saying it doesn't play out that way in real life. An over saturated market by one player drives prices down, which drives away competion. Which then raises prices which brings back competition. The small profit margins make it barely worth the extraordinary effort in competitive times, followed by frustration in noncompetitive times when he starts getting undercut once again. That's just one example of the market correcting itself. Your rationalizations don't factor in any human or market dynamics. Also dividing the player base (especially in the early days of the game) or denying alts cause far more problems than they solve. You're too optimistic, what can go wrong will go wrong, it's better to look at it that way, because that's how games work. If they come up with a balance in the beginning, the players will upset it anyway. Because of Altok, the number of professions will increase, but the number of players will remain the same. I'm giving you specific examples from comparable games that are live right now as proof. WoW, GW2, and ESO are not comparable examples, their economies are nowhere near as complex. . If you want to fracture the player base and get rid of alts, you can add this to the pile of dead mmos. Just because the economy of the game will be more complex. That's why the alts will have a worse effect. I don't think it would cause such a level of breakage on the server. if the developer doesn't do it, someone else will do it. The bigger fracture. example vanilla wow or what. I've never WOWed, I don't get it.
Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Dygz wrote: » xmix wrote: » Anyway, this is an almost 1 year old post. I only wrote 1 answer, it was thrown up again by others. The forum is there to draw attention to problems and we hope that they will deal with it.and their official position is that there will be no differences between the servers.but I think the alt characters will slowly destroy the base of the game. it will impair trade and communication between characters.let's say we take team consisting of 6 people.each has 3-5 alt characters.the number of major professions is 20 or less.number of major castes 8.so this team covers the whole game they can be completely independent.they don't trade and do everything for themselves and will go everywhere in teams, 3 teams in 3 cities and that's 6 people you can hold back newcomers by making a lot of alts.and you don't take part in the end game for a long time because you want to have more characters and professions. Even a team of 6 players with 5 alts cannot progress a Node very far on their own. They cannot win a Siege. They will still need to rely on help from other players to manage Mayoral Caravans. They cannot win Castle Sieges on their own. Highly unlikely they will be able to manage Social Orgs and Religious Orgs on their own. They would still very probably want to have alliances with some Guilds. Not everyone's goal is to reach the top or take part in the Castle sieges.many people like pve and trade.if 1 person will be able to handle 3-8 professions, it can take the time of the entire game.you don't have to go to pvp.and it's better to draw an extra alt character than to participate in pvp because in the long run the alt character is worth more to him.and these people will disappear for 5-12 months depending on how difficult the character and the development of the professions will be.the professions are important, but I wouldn't allow people to dive into it at such a level and because of this, the pvp content and everything else would be pushed into the background.it is possible to solve this within the game, but they don't communicate that much.there are times when I would regret spending it alt time. But then it wouldn't bother me that someone has more characters. The time investment for what you are describing on the crafting level would be so enormous that very few people would or even could accomplish it. I tried this in FFXIV, Eve Online and in SWG (and even in EQ2 a bit) and the time investment long term is not realistic. Very few people can hold up, and even the few that could didn't destroy the economy. And keep in mind, FFXIV, SWG and EQ2 all had (or currently have) far smaller servers and fewer market locations than Ashes is planning. The closest example is Eve, and there, individuals are not the issue. Massive Corps with thousands of players are the ones who can actually influence and control markets. I understand it's a concern for some, but in the last 20 years I've yet to see individuals with too many alts ruin economies. there are 3 blacksmiths in the city whose main character is goldsmiths, they will make a living from this as this will be one of your main sources of income. They will open +6 sub-character blacksmiths for you. logic out the rest by what will happen to the market.it doesn't matter if 5 people or 15 people have the chance to collect.I think this could be a problem with the alt in the longer term, not after 1-2 months but within half a year.maybe the wood or metal you farm could be sold for 1 silver, but they won't even buy it for 10 bronze anymore.but it depends on the balance anyway. Oh I understand what you are describing. I'm saying it doesn't play out that way in real life. An over saturated market by one player drives prices down, which drives away competion. Which then raises prices which brings back competition. The small profit margins make it barely worth the extraordinary effort in competitive times, followed by frustration in noncompetitive times when he starts getting undercut once again. That's just one example of the market correcting itself. Your rationalizations don't factor in any human or market dynamics. Also dividing the player base (especially in the early days of the game) or denying alts cause far more problems than they solve. You're too optimistic, what can go wrong will go wrong, it's better to look at it that way, because that's how games work. If they come up with a balance in the beginning, the players will upset it anyway. Because of Altok, the number of professions will increase, but the number of players will remain the same. I'm giving you specific examples from comparable games that are live right now as proof. WoW, GW2, and ESO are not comparable examples, their economies are nowhere near as complex. . If you want to fracture the player base and get rid of alts, you can add this to the pile of dead mmos. Just because the economy of the game will be more complex. That's why the alts will have a worse effect. I don't think it would cause such a level of breakage on the server. if the developer doesn't do it, someone else will do it. The bigger fracture. example vanilla wow or what. I've never WOWed, I don't get it. The economy being more complex, requiring larger amounts of inputs is the reason that economy's like Eve are not dominated by individuals. Here is another piece of evidence for you. Name a group centered mmo that denied alts and prospered. OSRS is the only thing even close, and that's a single player game at it's core. People, over time, want options and variety or they eventually leave to find it elsewhere. These hard core ideals kill multiplayer games. Every single time. Develop one video game, and fix the problems that arise or try to account for them while designing and testing. Don't section off the player base, especially at the start. Especially don't do it to accommodate ideas that always fail.
xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » xmix wrote: » Dygz wrote: » xmix wrote: » Anyway, this is an almost 1 year old post. I only wrote 1 answer, it was thrown up again by others. The forum is there to draw attention to problems and we hope that they will deal with it.and their official position is that there will be no differences between the servers.but I think the alt characters will slowly destroy the base of the game. it will impair trade and communication between characters.let's say we take team consisting of 6 people.each has 3-5 alt characters.the number of major professions is 20 or less.number of major castes 8.so this team covers the whole game they can be completely independent.they don't trade and do everything for themselves and will go everywhere in teams, 3 teams in 3 cities and that's 6 people you can hold back newcomers by making a lot of alts.and you don't take part in the end game for a long time because you want to have more characters and professions. Even a team of 6 players with 5 alts cannot progress a Node very far on their own. They cannot win a Siege. They will still need to rely on help from other players to manage Mayoral Caravans. They cannot win Castle Sieges on their own. Highly unlikely they will be able to manage Social Orgs and Religious Orgs on their own. They would still very probably want to have alliances with some Guilds. Not everyone's goal is to reach the top or take part in the Castle sieges.many people like pve and trade.if 1 person will be able to handle 3-8 professions, it can take the time of the entire game.you don't have to go to pvp.and it's better to draw an extra alt character than to participate in pvp because in the long run the alt character is worth more to him.and these people will disappear for 5-12 months depending on how difficult the character and the development of the professions will be.the professions are important, but I wouldn't allow people to dive into it at such a level and because of this, the pvp content and everything else would be pushed into the background.it is possible to solve this within the game, but they don't communicate that much.there are times when I would regret spending it alt time. But then it wouldn't bother me that someone has more characters. The time investment for what you are describing on the crafting level would be so enormous that very few people would or even could accomplish it. I tried this in FFXIV, Eve Online and in SWG (and even in EQ2 a bit) and the time investment long term is not realistic. Very few people can hold up, and even the few that could didn't destroy the economy. And keep in mind, FFXIV, SWG and EQ2 all had (or currently have) far smaller servers and fewer market locations than Ashes is planning. The closest example is Eve, and there, individuals are not the issue. Massive Corps with thousands of players are the ones who can actually influence and control markets. I understand it's a concern for some, but in the last 20 years I've yet to see individuals with too many alts ruin economies. there are 3 blacksmiths in the city whose main character is goldsmiths, they will make a living from this as this will be one of your main sources of income. They will open +6 sub-character blacksmiths for you. logic out the rest by what will happen to the market.it doesn't matter if 5 people or 15 people have the chance to collect.I think this could be a problem with the alt in the longer term, not after 1-2 months but within half a year.maybe the wood or metal you farm could be sold for 1 silver, but they won't even buy it for 10 bronze anymore.but it depends on the balance anyway. Oh I understand what you are describing. I'm saying it doesn't play out that way in real life. An over saturated market by one player drives prices down, which drives away competion. Which then raises prices which brings back competition. The small profit margins make it barely worth the extraordinary effort in competitive times, followed by frustration in noncompetitive times when he starts getting undercut once again. That's just one example of the market correcting itself. Your rationalizations don't factor in any human or market dynamics. Also dividing the player base (especially in the early days of the game) or denying alts cause far more problems than they solve. You're too optimistic, what can go wrong will go wrong, it's better to look at it that way, because that's how games work. If they come up with a balance in the beginning, the players will upset it anyway. Because of Altok, the number of professions will increase, but the number of players will remain the same. I'm giving you specific examples from comparable games that are live right now as proof. WoW, GW2, and ESO are not comparable examples, their economies are nowhere near as complex. . If you want to fracture the player base and get rid of alts, you can add this to the pile of dead mmos. Just because the economy of the game will be more complex. That's why the alts will have a worse effect. I don't think it would cause such a level of breakage on the server. if the developer doesn't do it, someone else will do it. The bigger fracture. example vanilla wow or what. I've never WOWed, I don't get it. The economy being more complex, requiring larger amounts of inputs is the reason that economy's like Eve are not dominated by individuals. Here is another piece of evidence for you. Name a group centered mmo that denied alts and prospered. OSRS is the only thing even close, and that's a single player game at it's core. People, over time, want options and variety or they eventually leave to find it elsewhere. These hard core ideals kill multiplayer games. Every single time. Develop one video game, and fix the problems that arise or try to account for them while designing and testing. Don't section off the player base, especially at the start. Especially don't do it to accommodate ideas that always fail. So you're saying the game will be boring and we're going alt-s so we don't get bored. And get more experience by owning more castes and learning more professions. If it is mongyák, it will take 600-1000 hours to develop 1 character max lvl and 1 profession. then most of my problems disappeared. but if it is 100-200 hour then I have problems.
Diamaht wrote: » You also have to ask: How many different server types are we asking them to make? The one character only idea, will not be the only one. I'm willing to bet the population of PvE Only fans and RP Only fans, are both far larger than No Alt fans, so you'll see those servers also, and likely before yours. Based on demand, your server type won't get top billing, it may not even get second or third billing. It further divides the play base with every new type. It also compounds the development process (I would imagine), because every time they try to make changes, they have to account for all the different server types with varying play styles.
xmix wrote: » Diamaht wrote: » You also have to ask: How many different server types are we asking them to make? The one character only idea, will not be the only one. I'm willing to bet the population of PvE Only fans and RP Only fans, are both far larger than No Alt fans, so you'll see those servers also, and likely before yours. Based on demand, your server type won't get top billing, it may not even get second or third billing. It further divides the play base with every new type. It also compounds the development process (I would imagine), because every time they try to make changes, they have to account for all the different server types with varying play styles. It must be complicated, you need 1 more skillful programmer. You have to rent 1 server.
