State of Monster Coins in 2024.

Monster coins seems like a really interesting mechanic that was announced but does not have much detail revealed in the last few years. I personally am very interested and hopeful for the mechanic but want to know how y'all feel. Maybe through discussion we can see where it is now, and what everyone is hopeful or worried about.

This ->https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Monster_coins#:~:text=Monster%20coins%20enable%20players%20to,become%20monsters%20and%20wreak%20havoc!

Should they be sold in the cosmetic shop?
Would you be interested in monster coin events where players control monsters have camps? (to be raided by players)
Would you like also letting caravans be attacked by player controlled monsters? (random not neighboring nodes, battle of the three armies style add some spice to caravans where players might even ally at first)
Could the progression by involvement in monster events unlock story telling features? (make a name on the server as a monster)
Does the system let some players be bosses of the monster horde and some underlings, should it?
Could the monster have abilities that spawned adds to give more strategy or longer battles?

It seems like the system now is like most in the world and a reaction to players actions. I will write a quick example of a cool way I hoped might be implemented and still follow this reactionary method:

A node is ranking up near a goblin camp. The game triggers a few monster coin events, do to the citizens of that node not pushing the goblins back enough. A player is lucky enough to have played monsters in that event multiple times and performs very well leveling that goblin up the most before being defeated. The node advances more... and triggers this event. The star or lucky player is personally given the ability to embody the Goblin Chief and give it a name. Say... Chief Kabeeki. Villagers begin to talk about need to cut the head from the serpent. Make a player raid event on the goblin fort and let the player be the chief with a bunch of other players using coins as the rest of the gobbos. idk something like that. Being able to level monsters to a point that you get to tell a story. Maybe even give the boss dialog he could click at points in the raid taunting the mayor of the node? Then if people really like the event let them rate it and earn that player the right to host more stories? If there were a way to do it safely without toxicity or "gaming the system" you could even let the player type up an event kick off dialog or write the 5 taunts he could shout during the event at the correct times. Then once the chief is defeated and the event is over perhaps all those that took part in it could rate it? And if the ranking were high allow that player to host more? (its dreaming big and I know it has holes, feel free to troll me now)

~Rocknon~

Below is attached a document that outlines some feedback/ideas for Monster Coins. If anyone is interested in these ideas be ye community or devs, feel free to view it and comment on it. This doc will be kept updated based on community feedback in this thread. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cIJOK1n8_NoQfJowhyzhvX7nGBYtNa4khuDm3vAr4jc/edit?usp=sharing

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Comments

Vyril

Monster coins can be a meme at this point. I'd be ok with a expansion for monster coins.

They have about 50 other systems to polish in the next couple years.

unknownsystemerror

They literally sold them as part of KS/Summer packs. They are coming. You don't have to like them, but you are going to get them.

AnimusRex

G'day Rocknon,

You're not going to like this take after all your hard work on your post, but I think a lot of people are going to be pretty ambivalent about them. I know I am.

I'm not going to protest loudly about them but they just don't feel right to me in this game. Hard to explain, but I just don't want to break my immersion in a character to become something else. Others will love them of course.

When they first were mentioned in early streams, Steven said they were unique. The mechanism isn't of course. A DLC for DA:O had you playing as the Darkspawn. It was ok, novel at first, then meh. Maybe I'm tainted by that.

Anywho, they are coming. Steven wants what Steven wants. Enjoy!

Liniker

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

They literally sold them as part of KS/Summer packs. They are coming. You don't have to like them, but you are going to get them.

Subject to change, and feedback is valid. They also sold crossbow skins, which were removed and refunded as embers, and thats is fine, we all agreed on the ToS.

"You acknowledge and agree that Intrepid may change, modify, “nerf,” delete, remove or otherwise alter the appearance, function, use and/or properties of any Game Assets at any time, in its sole discretion."

I personally hope that monster tokens are removed/reworked to only be obtainable in-game.

Dezemi

If monster coins is to be kept as a function (I am personally indifferent to if they keep it or not) and Intrepid would be alright with modifying their current plans (according to the wiki: "purchasable from the cosmetic store"), perhaps appearances could be sold in the shop (like re-colors, slight reskins) but these skins can only be used to modify appropriate monster coins found ingame?

As an example:
Undead monster coins might have different style of skeletons/zombies/ghost coins that have different abilities, and you can perhaps find different appearances within each undead coin type in side quest-lines, ingame vendors and maybe a few in the cash shop?

Mordoxx

AnimusRex wrote: »

G'day Rocknon,

Hard to explain, but I just don't want to break my immersion in a character to become something else. Others will love them of course.

Yeah I definitely hear you on this, and you are not alone. A lot of people feel this way. I actually do as well. I don’t like that a player is seen turning into a mob. If we look at the teaser where the player transforms into the mob. They had said “the monsters will be AI controlled and are coming regardless unless a player takes control via monster coin system”. This seems like the monsters exist in the world and then players “jack in” and take control. Maybe if when a coin is activated you just sit down and disappear as if logging out. Then you load into the mob where ever it is in the world. Other players would not even know or see the control change. For me this is allowing the player to play a different role in the world. You were your character, now you are the monster. Role playing games started with DnD. The players had roles as the PCs and the DM played the role of all npcs and monsters. If they pulled this off correctly you could hide the role switch. And allow players to basically make monsters less scripted.

daveywavey

Shouldn't really be in the Cosmetic Store, cos it's not just a cosmetic. It changes gameplay, adds gameplay, gives possible advantages to those buying the coin. It isn't a cosmetic. It's something that sounds a whole lot of fun, but it's not a cosmetic.

Liniker wrote: »

I personally hope that monster tokens are removed/reworked to only be obtainable in-game.

I agree with Liniker here.

Aaaaand I'm off now to wash my mouth out.....

Mordoxx

daveywavey wrote: »

Shouldn't really be in the Cosmetic Store, cos it's not just a cosmetic. It changes gameplay, adds gameplay, gives possible advantages to those buying the coin. It isn't a cosmetic. It's something that sounds a whole lot of fun, but it's not a cosmetic.

I agree. I too don’t think it needs to be in the shop. If they have to keep it in there for some reason maybe make 2 types? With the one sold there having little effect on other nodes? Like random world events.

Mordoxx

Dezmerizing wrote: »

As an example:
Undead monster coins might have different style of skeletons/zombies/ghost coins that have different abilities, and you can perhaps find different appearances within each undead coin type in side quest-lines, ingame vendors and maybe a few in the cash shop?

Yeah it would be cool if they insist on them in the shop if those didn’t have such a tactical advantage on pressuring neighbor nodes. Just pure cosmetic rewards. I personally would love a progression based monster system where you get to tell stories in the world. (As example in OP). And maybe through having different coins that could be implemented. I love the play as monster idea to give player vs mob battles that are not always the same so could be a fun challenge for players. If expanded on the system could become great player created content if a person chose to spend their time playing monsters. I’m old school tho. Been around since UO ans EQ and always loved GM events. It seems like if done right this could allow players to host these events for other players. My basic idea was that if you manage to survive you could snowball ans level your monster. Let’s say if you make it to lvl 5 you could name them. You could even log out ans log back in as them. They exist until they die. And if they snowball enough they could make ruckus on the server and have the name feared or eventually hunted. If devs were worried about “gaming the system” with this they could op to only allow this form of monster coin on servers you didn’t have citizens on. So a person would choose to make a name for themselves on the server as a storyteller by playing the mobs. It’s definitely expansion food, I don’t see any of this in release but hopefully if the monster system makes it in ans stays it might evolve.

Nerror

Yeah, monster coins in the shop has always been icky to me. Even if the final reward is cosmetics, the fact is you can buy gameplay content in the shop that isn't just cosmetic if they sell coins.

Aszkalon

Hands down, Guys.

Who would also love to see a LiveStream Presentation of the Monster Coin System in 2024 ?

If it's not invented in the Game yet, that's a Shame but i guess we can only wait then. ^.^

Mordoxx

Aszkalon wrote: »

Hands down, Guys.

Who would also love to see a LiveStream Presentation of the Monster Coin System in 2024 ?

If it's not invented in the Game yet, that's a Shame but i guess we can only wait then. ^.^

100% upvote! I'm glad someone else actually wants to see what they got planned. I for one have wanted this in a game for a really long time. It was there in DnD which birthed this genre if you look to the roots. DM is a player and PvPed the characters. I'm personally really happy they are trying it. If I understand their idea now its basically world events will set off raids on the nodes. These raids happen with AI or they allow players to control the mobs in the raid. Hense the no pay to win justification. You would most likely not play the mob as well as the AI. I think that's the idea. But if the dev team spends the time to create a way for players to control monsters for this game mechanic it could be the start of something beautiful. All buying the content aside just looking at the potential I think there is a lot there. The trick would be not having it ruin the other plans of PvP among citizens and nodes. But there are many ways around that if the community is keen and the devs use it in other ways. I see random world events being a good angle. The world is huge just don't let the monsters choose where they spawn so its not used to grief neighbors. I would love something where they expand on it later and let raids or groups que up for monster play while online. If an event spawns outside the area of their influence they get to play those mobs. Defend a monster stronghold or dungeon. Level the mobs, tell a story ect... Make the players come take them out. It would add content to the game and bring life to the mobs who usually although dynamic would be predictable and more static as the game ages.

Mordoxx

Nerror wrote: »

Yeah, monster coins in the shop has always been icky to me. Even if the final reward is cosmetics, the fact is you can buy gameplay content in the shop that isn't just cosmetic if they sell coins.

Yeah I agree. I see the point that its not pay to win, because the raid is going to happen on the node anyway. But it is content behind a paywall. Which is usually not great. And honestly I dont see the reason for it. I understand cosmetics fuel the assets and populate the world. Do you think monster coins in the shop are a similar thing? That is hard to code all these extra mobs animations and abilities so they need to fund them? Maybe it the coin system created more content other than letting you control raid mobs it could be justified for dev time without the need for coin sales?

daveywavey

Rocknon wrote: »

Yeah I agree. I see the point that its not pay to win, because the raid is going to happen on the node anyway.

But, if you can jump a character into the Monster Boss that's attacking your node (even if you're doing it with a non-node alt), then you can choose to sit there outside the main town and not disable any of the buildings, not kill your node-mates, etc.

While the node next door that hasn't bought the Monster Coin then has the battle with the Monster Boss and the repair of its buildings, etc.

unknownsystemerror

Rocknon wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

Yeah, monster coins in the shop has always been icky to me. Even if the final reward is cosmetics, the fact is you can buy gameplay content in the shop that isn't just cosmetic if they sell coins.

Yeah I agree. I see the point that its not pay to win, because the raid is going to happen on the node anyway. But it is content behind a paywall. Which is usually not great. And honestly I dont see the reason for it. I understand cosmetics fuel the assets and populate the world. Do you think monster coins in the shop are a similar thing? That is hard to code all these extra mobs animations and abilities so they need to fund them? Maybe it the coin system created more content other than letting you control raid mobs it could be justified for dev time without the need for coin sales?

They can be earned in game. If you don't want to take the time and find them, then you can buy them.

daveywavey wrote: »

Rocknon wrote: »

Yeah I agree. I see the point that its not pay to win, because the raid is going to happen on the node anyway.

But, if you can jump a character into the Monster Boss that's attacking your node (even if you're doing it with a non-node alt), then you can choose to sit there outside the main town and not disable any of the buildings, not kill your node-mates, etc.

While the node next door that hasn't bought the Monster Coin then has the battle with the Monster Boss and the repair of its buildings, etc.

Was addressed years ago. You don't choose the event. Your participation is random in the world.

Mordoxx

daveywavey wrote: »

Rocknon wrote: »

Yeah I agree. I see the point that its not pay to win, because the raid is going to happen on the node anyway.

But, if you can jump a character into the Monster Boss that's attacking your node (even if you're doing it with a non-node alt), then you can choose to sit there outside the main town and not disable any of the buildings, not kill your node-mates, etc.

While the node next door that hasn't bought the Monster Coin then has the battle with the Monster Boss and the repair of its buildings, etc.

True. Maybe the flag for you having a citizen of a node has to be account based not character based so you can't game the system with alts?

Mordoxx

I made a Gdoc to try and list the common repeating feedback on the potential benifits or faults of the system posted by users in this thread. Also ideas/suggestions for use of the system. I will update this document to keep a running list of hope/concerns for Monster Coins as posted in this thread.

Post your concerns or creative ideas and I'll update them into the document!

Gdoc link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cIJOK1n8_NoQfJowhyzhvX7nGBYtNa4khuDm3vAr4jc/edit?usp=sharing

Liniker

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

They can be earned in game. If you don't want to take the time and find them, then you can buy them.

@unknownsystemerror really... they can be earned in game... what kind of argument is that?

TheHiddenDaggerInn

Good post OP, I definitely don't want to see them available in s shop, However I'm ok with possibly some dropping as part of a loot table from a dragon kill or other world boss. Also maybe you can get them through some social organizations as a reward for your contributions. These definitely need to be earned and not bought. Other than ones in the world we already know about from packages, but once those are gone then earned for sure.

Mordoxx

Howdy Peon, Yeah seems like everyone is against the shop idea. I haven’t seen one post the other direction. Glad you like seeing the post and brought your opinion to this lovely soup.

What do you mean by “social organizations”? Like a quest reward from NPC societies in the world?

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