What is everyone opinion on the gaming forcing you into grouping for content?

Thought this would be a good point of discussion.

how do we all feel about the game having content that will force you into grouping?

Personally I am all for it, the classic MMO days before group finder and all of the jazz were a different kind. I think we should be forced into the interactions of making groups with friends and randoms from the get go that way it doesn't feel alien when you require it at max level.

I think this was a big places where MMO's like WoW really let us down. Group finding and having to talk to people was an amazing experience, allowed for meeting new people and making new friends. Instead it became a silent husk of people queueing and rushing to finish the instance without a word being said.

What about you, all?

I've always felt like MMO's are about community and bringing people together to accomplish goals. I look forward to this in Ashes

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TheHiddenDaggerInn

Before the advent of Dungeon Group finders, which I'm not fond of—and I'll share why—players could abruptly leave a dungeon if they were dissatisfied with you, the party's makeup, your damage output, or your healing abilities. Such actions left the rest of the group in a bind, without any consequences for the leaver who wasted the time of four others, only to easily join another group elsewhere.

Contrastingly, in AoC, where parties consist of 8 members, I wholeheartedly support the traditional approach of using group chats and networking within guilds to assemble a cohesive team. This method not only enhances the gameplay experience but also fosters the potential for long-lasting friendships within the game, possibly extending over two decades.

Choosing to play solo is entirely up to individual preference. Yet, it's worth noting that this choice might limit access to certain game content. As Margaret mentioned during the stream, building friendships is key. I'm eagerly anticipating the resurgence of the social dimension in MMOs, enhancing the overall gaming experience.

Nerror

When I say forced grouping is good, what I am talking about is having a lot of content you can't do if you're not in a group. Not even alongside each other outside a group, unless for some reason you are lucky to get healed and get the most damage on the target that someone else tanks. Not every mob has to be an elite in Ashes, I would hate that myself, but almost all the good stuff worth killing for XP and drops? Absolutely. Call it forced, call it heavily incentivized, it's the same meaning here. I would like to see gatherers having to group up for some areas too.

Dygz

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Verra is a sandbox. It should have lots of content at different levels, solo+

Verra is a Themebox.

Dygz

Nerror wrote: »

When I say forced grouping is good, what I am talking about is having a lot of content you can't do if you're not in a group. Not even alongside each other outside a group, unless for some reason you are lucky to get healed and get the most damage on the target that someone else tanks. Not every mob has to be an elite in Ashes, I would hate that myself, but almost all the good stuff worth killing for XP and drops? Absolutely. Call it forced, call it heavily incentivized, it's the same meaning here. I would like to see gatherers having to group up for some areas too.

Yep. Which is why I said that forced grouping is unecessary. Because it's MMO Roleplaying Game.
It's not MMO Grouping Game.
There is plenty of room for multiplayer content and multiplayer combat that can be completed outside of a formal group.
Join a formal group because that's the way you like to play - not because the game forces you to.

I think we were both clear - and disagree.

Dygz

koltovince wrote: »

I dont think a game should force grouping but encourage it. You are questing in an area and you see an elite just chilling hidden in a cave. You cant solo the elite, but the game incentivizes you to kill it for some special loot. The player goes out of their way to group up and kill the elite and get the loot.

Group or kill it together without grouping.

koltovince

Dygz wrote: »

Group or kill it together without grouping.

Wouldn't that mess up most of the players with the current loot system planned for ashes if players just killed it without grouping?

Ludullu

koltovince wrote: »

Wouldn't that mess up most of the players with the current loot system planned for ashes if players just killed it without grouping?

Yes, this would be a rewardless action. But for Dygz reward is the content and the cooperation, which is why he'd be mostly fine with getting nothing for a good thing done.

Dygz

koltovince wrote: »

Wouldn't that mess up most of the players with the current loot system planned for ashes if players just killed it without grouping?

If you want more loot from grouping - go ahead and group.
Nothing is stopping people from grouping as far as I know.

TheDarkSorcerer

I don't like to be forced to be in a group unless it's a trial/dungeon.

Same with gyms. I don't like working out WITH people, but I like working out AROUND people

Sengarden

IMO, MMORPGs should make you feel like a member of Tolkien's Fellowship.

Frodo wouldn't have taken the One Ring anywhere if Gandalf hadn't come along to bid him away from his home. Gandalf couldn't take the ring himself, so he had to get his friends involved. Merry, Pippin, and Sam wouldn't have gone on their respective journeys if they hadn't been following Frodo. Aragorn wouldn't have realized his destiny if the threat of Mordor and Middle Earth's only hope to stand against it didn't rise from the shadows in the form of Frodo and his quest. Gimli and Legolas helped ensure the other's survival and dissolved each other's prejudices, even when they didn't realize it, or care to acknowledge it. Frodo wouldn't have gotten the ring to Mt Doom if Aragorn's army hadn't distracted Sauron at a pivotal moment, he wouldn't have reached the peak if Sam didn't carry him, it wouldn't have been destroyed if Gollum hadn't bitten it off his damn finger, and everyone would've died if Gandalf's feathered friends didn't show up at the end of the battle to slay some drakes, toss some orcs, and provide a couple of Hobbits with an airlift.

Every single time something went wrong, and things did go wrong (a lot) the team relied on different members of their diverse group to help, even when the saviors might've been far away and simply doing the right thing, not knowing the sweeping consequences of their actions.

Naturally, not every day in an MMO is a day in the Journey of The Fellowship. Sometimes you log on and farm herb nodes for an hour, manage your freehold, and have a guild meeting. But the main point I'm trying to make with the storytelling comparison is the call to action and overcoming of unexpected obstacles. Things going wrong is a staple of engaging storytelling. I hope that in Ashes, there will be enough dynamic PvX content spread throughout the world such that you will get distracted from your main objective fairly often, that you will face setbacks, that you will need to rely on others for help, and that you will have fun coming out the other side having grown as a player and an individual for having faced those challenges and strengthening those bonds with old and new friends. Yes, even when you originally intended to simply log on and farm herb nodes for an hour.

Would you rather have a boring game that lets you farm herb nodes for an hour by yourself no problem, or a game that offers unexpected challenges that require you to call on old friends, develop new ones in the moment that you create shared memories with, and finish your session with a unique story that some of your friends might not be able to replicate?

Dygz

I mean... even in Tolkien... the individulas were not forced to be in a group.
They often split up - sometimes soloing.

One of my favorite memories in Vanilla EQ was encountering a group that needed healing while Medding.
I healed them and ran off to do other stuff.
Sometimes it's fun to adventure alongside other players and help them complete quests you've already completed - and then go your separate ways.

You don't have to be in a formal group in order to play together with other players.
And players don't have to be forced in order to play with other players or to group with others.
Do so because you want to; not because you're forced to.

Aszkalon

Dygz wrote: »

Um. You don't have to formally join a Group/Party in order to be in combat alongside other players.
Sieges and Caravans don't force grouping, for example.

Are you sure, Dygz ? ;-)

This Mechanic can "still" feel forceful to People who would love to Solo absolutely everything as if they would be freakin' Saitama and could One-punch every single Enemy in Existence.

I get your point,
but now You have me stuck with the Imagination of a single Person "sieging" a whole Node.

Dygz wrote: »

Content designed for multiple players is not the same thing as forced grouping.

And i agree with other People here in this Topic on this one Sentence,

most MMO's nowadays don't do the "forcing Part" hard enough. There should be Places You can not just come in and raid everything alone. For Example Goblin- Bandit- Minotauer-Camps and whatever else is there.

Am i a weird Person when i say, in an " MMO~RPG Game " - i want to see "several People", maybe even Groups ABOVE Four to Five People, in Place where it would make Sense ?

In World of WoW-Token Craft - i can attack pretty much every single Base in Existence completely alone.

I can raid Castles who are mostly or partially Ruins and full of Enemies, alone.

I can go into the biggest "BASES" in the so called "Maw" in the Shadowlands Expansion COMPLETELY alone.
That Place is supposed to be the freakin' "HELL" of WoW - and the Forces and Troops there are supposed to be scariest and most evil Folks around.

The only Exceptions are Instances and/or Raids in the current Max-Level Range of current Expansions regarding Strength. Those can "force" me to team up with Others - but otherwise the whole Game is free real Estate.

And by now there are like 8 " Continents " full of Enemies, Factions, Challenges and Storylines. That Game feels more like a SinglePlayer with a "Lobby" instead of an MMORPG at times.

abc0815

Do i want to solo a Dungeon/Raid? No that is imho the fun group content. Do i want to group up for a story beat? Hell no
On release that is generally not a problem but years/months later is can be one. I am not a completionists so i can skip a old dungeon and not lose sleep

Dygz

Aszkalon wrote: »

Are you sure, Dygz ? ;-)

This Mechanic can "still" feel forceful to People who would love to Solo absolutely everything as if they would be freakin' Saitama and could One-punch every single Enemy in Existence.

I get your point,
but now You have me stuck with the Imagination of a single Person "sieging" a whole Node.

Yep. You don't have to Group to participate in a Siege.

Aszkalon wrote: »

And i agree with other People here in this Topic on this one Sentence,
most MMO's nowadays don't do the "forcing Part" hard enough. There should be Places You can not just come in and raid everything alone. For Example Goblin- Bandit- Minotauer-Camps and whatever else is there.

We disagree.

Aszkalon wrote: »

Am i a weird Person when i say, in an " MMO~RPG Game " - i want to see "several People", maybe even Groups ABOVE Four to Five People, in Place where it would make Sense ?

You should be able to see several players fighting together without being joined in a Group.
Especially in Sieges and Caravans.
Without it being forced.

Smaashley

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

I don't like to be forced to be in a group unless it's a trial/dungeon.

Same with gyms. I don't like working out WITH people, but I like working out AROUND people

Best example out there. This applies to me as well 😉

Xeeg

I wouldn't worry about it being "forced". Who is to say that your friends/guildmates are online, in the same area, and are interested in the same content you are on any given day?

Personally, I expect a lot of the day to day content to be soloable. Gathering mats, grinding levels, doing commissions/side quests and professions. There are a bunch of open world events that involve groups you can auto join, apparently, so that's not a problem. In fact, it could be more optimal to be going around in the open world as a solo/duo for more mats/exp and then just joining groups as the events pop up around you.

The more people you have in group, the more bathroom breaks, snack breaks, cig breaks, attention loss breaks etc. Realistically, it is difficult to get a group of 4+ to do anything for an hour straight, unless they are all on exactly the same page and ready to go (like a raid or something)

The team stuff so far seems more about planning big caravan runs, doing dungeons/raids/bosses, and then eventually node stuff.

Sure you can zerg the open world for just mat gathering, but is it an actually efficient use of time?

Ludullu

Xeeg wrote: »

Realistically, it is difficult to get a group of 4+ to do anything for an hour straight, unless they are all on exactly the same page and ready to go (like a raid or something)

Soloable mmos have truly been a plague on the genre, if this is the common thought process for party play

Xeeg

NiKr wrote: »

Xeeg wrote: »

Realistically, it is difficult to get a group of 4+ to do anything for an hour straight, unless they are all on exactly the same page and ready to go (like a raid or something)

Soloable mmos have truly been a plague on the genre, if this is the common thought process for party play

I mean this is just a fact. If you meet people in the open world and group, its different. But when you are trying to organize irl friends and guildies its a thing.

What is the alternative? Log off and play something else until your friends are online?

Isth3reno1else

To me:

Making a group based MMO means making the difficulty so great that in order to complete content you need a group to do so. A lot of MMOs i have played have been too easy at the overland level to where I don't find it interesting.

A resurgence in difficulty in the space is something I am looking forward to, but having that balance between fun and challenging group based content and some soloable quest content like what we saw in the commissions livestream sounds good to me.

Songcaller

I think there's a serious lack of good content right now. At least from what we've seen. I understand the desire to form groups but the devs run content where bigger groups are required in 3 or 4s and stomp the enemies. Its not conducive to a challenge. One would hope the challenge is put in at some point down the line because I want to be engaged in a team fight, not afk watching netflix whilst we tank and spank all comers.

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