Players should go all out with griefing in the alpha 2

I still think that anti-griefing systems are too optimistic. Here is my own hypothesis that I have based on PVP and PVX games I have played;

I think players will log out to avoid the bounty system and grind out their corruption during low pop hours.
I think that open world bosses will be to easy to grief.
I think the corruption debuff is will be easy to mitigate with a group of players targeting solo or duo players.

I'm not anti PVP, but there is a difference between what is intended and a never ending gankfest.
I think that during the alpha 2 players should try to exploit these systems to draw attention to any of these or other problems that might come up.
Best case scenario is I'm full of shit and everything is fine, second best is intrepid finds a problem and fixes it.
But I think we would all hate to see this game launch in a 24/7 Escape from Tarkov state when all you want to do is get a quest done.
PVP should have purpose but I think players have a tendency to make it purposeless. I see player, I kill player.

Food for thought.

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RocketFarmer

For those who want to play a bounty hunter role, there has to be enough “gankers” for them to have something to do. If the penalties are too high, then there’s no market. I like the idea of using market principles to fix problems in game rather than arbitrary rules/penalties that could produce a non-self-correcting imbalance.

Rvj

Vissox wrote:

If an open world boss is interruptible by PVP, that means the boss would need to be easy enough to be beaten through a PVP encounter. That's all well and good if every boss encounter gets ganked, but if that isn't the case, what do you have? Boring steamroll bosses.

Fighting over resources, dungeons, bosses, will create storylines within your Ashes server that are unique. Player driven content is what Ashes is built on and many players from EVE, Lineage, SWG, and others will attest that it can't be beat by anything devs handcraft for you.

There are other examples in this thread, but one is classic WoW. The bosses were not steamrolled. Many guilds wiped repeatedly to world bosses even without pvp intervention, but the best guilds were killing the boss and killing your raid at the same time. It made for incredible storylines, like how one EU guild locked down every world boss for weeks through sheer skill difference. Example

Managing the boss and making tactical pvp decisions is a skill set of its own. Whether to pull back, push through the enemies, or burn down the boss is a critical decision. And the world boss doesn't have to be easy, but it doesn't make sense for it to be the hardest fight in the game either because you're being contested by other players for it and that's the real content. Massive organic fights are a rush incomparable to structured pvp like battlegrounds or arena.

Vissox wrote:

As long as we are generalizing, every argument against a successful corruption system (which I'm not yet convinced we have) is that it's just something that helpless PvE players want, and everyone should just shut up about it (even though the system is badly designed with PVP in mind as well). But can we get one reason why the system should not exist, or at the very least why the current system will do a good enough job? That's what the discussion is about. You aren't making an intellectual argument by saying that people with a focus on PvE elements should not be considered, it's a PvX game. That means that things outside of PVP also need to be taken account of.

I never said the system shouldn't exist, and it's impossible to gauge the balance of the system without playing the game first. But on paper, the consequences look severe to me. Source

* NPC guards kill on sight
* Stats reduced
* Anyone can attack you freely
* Logout timer to stop combat logging
* Can't trade or access storage
* Chance to drop equipped items when killed.

What further penalties could you even ask for?

Vissox wrote:

So again, why is killing players participating in an already challenging boss fight a good thing?

Your heart will be pounding the minute you see them coming, and who knows? You might win. Either way, you'll have a good story to tell.

Vissox wrote:

Why are dumbed down/easy boss fights as a compromise to PVP a good thing?

Again, the bosses do not have to be easy. If a world boss is going to take 8 hours of wiping to nail, you'd better have made some friends to protect you. Maybe a symbiotic relationship with a PvP guild.

Vissox wrote:

Why is corruption punishing players (specifically their stats) who seek/excell at PVP encounters a good thing.

It's not, I dislike this part more than anything else about the corruption system. I'm willing to risk my items, but don't make it an unfair fight.

Vissox wrote:

Why is the ability to log out to avoid the penalties of corruption unchallenged?

What would you have them do? If I have to log out, it's also not fair that my character stands there undefended.

Vissox wrote:

What protects solo players from group PVP?

PvP is a reality of the game, and everyone will die to it, not always fairly. The corruption system is enough of a penalty. Beyond that, RUN.

Vissox wrote:

These are important questions. This is what we need to answer. Not "lol which side of the spectrum are these people on".

Nothing wrong with sparking some discussion. I think we should revisit this topic a few weeks into Alpha-2. Until then, look to other MMOs with similar PVP aspects. It can be done in a way that is satisfying even if you aren't keen on PvP yourself.

Aszkalon

Vissox wrote: »

Not digging your aggressive tone buddy.

Did you just whine in the most sissified form possible in a Forum out of fear of Consequences ?

You can answer on People in a constructive way, "buddy". Not to bitch and whine in the most pussified way possible.

Vissox wrote: »

So you've never met people that spend their lives in MMORPGs? Cute.

Did you just continue whining and bitching ? You need to level up your Provokation Perk, bub.

Dripyula wrote: »

I know only one thing about corruption and that is... that I find it stupid that it - for some magical reason - does not exist during caravane attacks. Why?
What changes? xD

While i doubt it,
we might see Sir Steven and the remaining Developers explain it in a lore-kinda way.

And be it just for the "State of Soul" that our Characters are in,

like :
when You EXPECT Someone - to fight and kill You, the Person doesn't get corrupted. Your "Soul" is consenting to the Concept of being fought and killed.

But when You of Course murder a farming Plant-Gatherer or so, the Soul of the murdered Person rubs of it's negative and shocked Aura on You or something.

Sounds* cheesy,
" IS* " cheesy,

but i couldn't pull something more polished out of my fingers right now.

Dripyula wrote: »

In case the caravane people do not fight back against attackers and are all slaughtered on the spot, why would the attackers not get corrupted?
Because now "the Gods are watching and find this time it is excusable" or something? ^_^

Oh. Jeah.

It could also get explained with the very Gods themselves. Why not ? They are immensely powerful Beings after all, aren't they ?

Dygz

blat wrote: »

Here we are debating the definition of MMO again, I'm pretty sure noone gives a monkeys

Players who prefer MMORPGs specifically over other genres of MMO do give a monkey's...

Vissox

Aszkalon wrote: »

You can answer on People in a constructive way, "buddy". Not to bitch and whine in the most pussified way possible.

Damn it sounds like you have some mental issues kiddo.

HybridSR

Vissox wrote: »

Damn it sounds like you have some mental issues kiddo.

Bit of projection here lil bro. Weren't you the guy telling me I was "upset" over a post, yet here you are calling people mentally ill, and this is after you told me you are going to "hunt me down ingame and put me in a death loop?"

Sounds like you're the one's who's a little upset. Unfortunately, we don't like carebears like you around here. Well, actually, I don't mind them. I do care and I don't like it when they try to change this game into FF 2.0 because they hate the idea of dying to other players (just like you).

You have the chance to play a different MMO with a different philosophy. Try it (you might actually enjoy it) and if you don't like, you can just go back to playing your little PvE fest with hugs and kisses. You don't need to try to change this game into the exact same trash you were playing that's clearly boring you out of your mind (cause if you were enjoying whatever you're playing, then you wouldn't be here).

Abrazo campeón

Kilion

If the PKers become so numerous that it would be an issue in other games I expect a strengthening of Ashes' counter balance system - the Bbounty Hunter mechanic - to grow equally. The world event system is a great tool to support this: If a certain amount of corruption is acquired in a region, the local bounty hunter associations could offer new quests with greater rewards for killing corrupted players. This would increase the number of bounty hunters and improve their available tools to hunt down corrupted players.

And thats why my concerns about this aren't too big: All the tools to counter balance "excessive griefing" exist in Intrepids development plan, they do not have to expand the scope of the game to address & fix this potential issue.

Aszkalon

HybridSR wrote: »

Bit of projection here lil bro. Weren't you the guy telling me I was "upset" over a post, yet here you are calling people mentally ill, and this is after you told me you are going to "hunt me down ingame and put me in a death loop?"

LoL i wouldn't have seen the Answer of that Betamale if you haven't quoted him

Gods above and below i love the Ignore-Function.
If i would stoop down to his Level i would report his sorry Ass a second time now.

Regarding Corruption,

we saw Sir Steven " get corrupted " in the December Ranger Lifestream, didn't we ? I think he stayed corrupted after ONE. KILL. for about Fifteen to Thirty Minutes ?? I admit i haven't looked at the Presentation again to check from the Point where he gets it, to the Moment where he loses it later on a higher Place where this magical, floating Rock-thingy is.

But i think Corruption sticks awhile. People will have to watch out, as they can drop their Gear then when they get killed. I think without that Risk, some People would continue to murder Others happily for Hours and HOURS on end.

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