Class Archetypes

So with Ashes displaying more and more about the base classes of AoC I start to wonder.
Those classes seem like they are greatly balanced and interesting to play, with Talents that alter your abilities in different ways. However, it makes me think how archetypes are gonna work with classes those classes. Steven originally spoke about archetypes altering your base abilities in some way (using fighter charge as example which would turn into teleport with mage archetype).
However with the way abilities were developed until now one would think if that's the best road to go, as we can see with throne and liberty where your class is defined by your weapon combination perhaps Intrepid would like to go into similar direction, or maybe instead of automatically altering your abilities, 2nd class would just unlock new talents that will let you choose which abilities will be affected by your 2nd class.

Ultimately I believe the best choice is to use both options instead of one. Just giving you additional abilities from 2nd class would make it too close to TnL and perhaps too boring, unlocking new traits with 2nd class would be the easiest choice also heavily limiting, with an additional level of complexity and meta.
A little bit of both would be a perfect world, small number of new traits for your old abilities wouldn't put much pressure on Intrepit and new skills from 2nd class would give those combinations their unique identity while also not being too boring.

Fight who can occasionally create some space for him to cast a spell like fireball and then engage back in with blink charge or mage who can weaken his foe with spells burning away his hp to finish him with a sword attack or using his warrior archetype to give him some survivability/talkativeness.

The only thing I fear is Intrepid going lazy with this interesting concept by just making mage magic missle into a couple of flying sword with no change whatsoever, or fighter getting a light effect on his sword while using priest archetype without any buffs

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Comments

Azherae

Do you have any more specific suggestions on something that would be more than 'lazy'?

I'm curious because I'm the type of person that views everything abstractly, and for me, pretty much every possible skill in MMOs is 'already covered' for most games now.

I don't often see what you can do beyond 'making the magic missile into a couple of flying swords' (does Physical damage instead or something).

Kilion

If I understood it correctly, then you are unaware of few very important points in regards to the current state of augment system, so let me quickly fill you in:

There will be no automatic altering of any of your skills by choosing a secondary archetype
Your class is not defined by your weapon choice, but it stands to argue that certain weapon choices will favor certain playstyles (e.g. A Tank with a ranged wand will not be as effective in holding aggro and surviving as a Tank with a shield and axe)
When you choose your secondary archetype, you gain NOT A SINGLE NEW SKILL
Instead you get augment choices for the skills you got from your primary Archetype
As far as we know, you will have 4 augment options for each skill, the effect of these skills will be based on the secondary Archetype you chose (e.g. the Fighters Whirlwind might become a fire or Ice Tornado if augmented with the Mage class)

From my understanding of Intrepids design, the point of the augment system is to increase your wiggle room within the Rock-Paper-Scissors system (Bruiser beats Assassin; Assassin beats Magician; Magician beats Bruiser) and to adapt your base skills more towards your desired playstyle.

Under that premise adding completely new skills would be counterproductive, because you wouldn't be able to further adapt your skills to the playstyle you already have, you'd get new skills that you'd then be somehow be required to adapt to, just to "make the most" of picking that class in the first place.

And the same goes with weapon choice - you as a player have a certain playstyle in mind and being able to choose any weapon does not mean "You can fulfill any role with any weapon" but "There is a perfect weapon for your preferred playstyle and we want you to be able to pick it."

nanfoodle

So far anything class specific does not look lazy. Right down to the veritacility of the skills. I would judge when we see some sub classes. We get some glimpses with the skill kits but not a full vision. My guess that will happen shortly after we test all the base classes. What's the point of making sub classes when the base classes have not been flushed out? They are the starting point.

Dygz

I think adding a Teleport to the Tank's Whirlwind is a better example of a Mage Augment than adding Elemental Damage, but...
Yes.

McShave

I have been excited to learn more about augments for years now. This will be the most important aspect when it comes to class identity imo (above primary archetype). My worst fear is that augments just give you a different flavor of your primary archetype with no real change to gameplay, but also if your secondary archetype augments change your primary too much, there will inevitably be "best" augments for each primary that means each player with a certain primary will always have the same secondary.

We really just have to wait until they announce what their design principles are for this concept. Hopefully coming soon, too, since Alpha 2 is right around the corner.

CROW3

McShave wrote: »

My worst fear is that augments just give you a different flavor of your primary archetype with no real change to gameplay.

Same - particularly for tanks and heals.

SirChancelot

CROW3 wrote: »

McShave wrote: »

My worst fear is that augments just give you a different flavor of your primary archetype with no real change to gameplay.

Same - particularly for tanks and heals.

Seconded. I usually play tanks and it's going to feel real bad if there is only one effective tank play style.

CROW3

SirChancelot wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

McShave wrote: »

My worst fear is that augments just give you a different flavor of your primary archetype with no real change to gameplay.

Same - particularly for tanks and heals.

Seconded. I usually play tanks and it's going to feel real bad if there is only one effective tank play style.

Yep - most important quality of a good class: it's fun to play.

Oh yeah! It's a game.

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