what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
You are truly the poster child for Reductio Ad Absurdum.
I prefer for a normal amount of people to spend a normal amount of time on Freeholds.
Maybe they should follow a Pareto Distribution?
define normal amount?
also, remember that freehold are limited in numbers, so I'm not sure why you are saying normal amount of people. you cant have more freehold owners than you can have freehold...the normal amount is every fh has an owner?
but please answer the question. the reason I'm pursuing this is because someone said they prefer if casuals dominated the servers. I'm pointing out how that would be bad for everyone.
so as a hypothetical, just to test your logic:
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
edit: I know u were trying to be funny with the pareto distribution, but they shouldn't follow it, it will happen naturally 8D
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
You are truly the poster child for Reductio Ad Absurdum.
I prefer for a normal amount of people to spend a normal amount of time on Freeholds.
Maybe they should follow a Pareto Distribution?
define normal amount?
also, remember that freehold are limited in numbers, so I'm not sure why you are saying normal amount of people. you cant have more freehold owners than you can have freehold...the normal amount is every fh has an owner?
but please answer the question. the reason I'm pursuing this is because someone said they prefer if casuals dominated the servers. I'm pointing out how that would be bad for everyone.
so as a hypothetical, just to test your logic:
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
Your hypothetical is profoundly stupid.
20% of Freehold Owners will produce 80% of the gear, right?
But the other 80% are still contributing to the game in many ways.
So, I prefer that 80% of Freehold Owners are people who play 1-2 hours a week, or something.
If anyone has ever taught you that you can make a point by creating a whole new one to declare victory on, smack that person.
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
You are truly the poster child for Reductio Ad Absurdum.
I prefer for a normal amount of people to spend a normal amount of time on Freeholds.
Maybe they should follow a Pareto Distribution?
define normal amount?
also, remember that freehold are limited in numbers, so I'm not sure why you are saying normal amount of people. you cant have more freehold owners than you can have freehold...the normal amount is every fh has an owner?
but please answer the question. the reason I'm pursuing this is because someone said they prefer if casuals dominated the servers. I'm pointing out how that would be bad for everyone.
so as a hypothetical, just to test your logic:
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
Your hypothetical is profoundly stupid.
20% of Freehold Owners will produce 80% of the gear, right?
But the other 80% are still contributing to the game in many ways.
So, I prefer that 80% of Freehold Owners are people who play 1-2 hours a week, or something.
If anyone has ever taught you that you can make a point by creating a whole new one to declare victory on, smack that person.
no no, see you arent getting it and you are calling my hypothetical stupid. at least get it right first.
100% of freehold owners will produce 100% of the best processed items in the game, including the best gear. remember that the best processing can only be done in freehold.
simple analogy. lets say nike factories (and every brand if you want) only make shoes 1 hour a day vs 9 hours a day. wouldn't it take longer for everyone to get shoes? so they will be walking barefoot meanwhile since they cant make shoes themselves.
also, I didn't mention it because I thought it was obvious, but my example doesn't stop at freehold. to answer what would other people who arent fh owners do, well they are casuals as well. gatherers will be casuals who play a couple of hours a week, crafting as well, actual crafting is just clicking but remember that you will need time, assumed in months, to max out your crafting, so who will max out crafting first, someone playing 1-2 hours a week, or someone who plays 10-15 hours a day?
so please answer my questions. at this point you guys are arguing that 2 + 2 is whatever you want and not 4.
edit: If you wanna look at the pareto distribution for fh owners you are looking at it incorrectly. 20% of the fh owners will produce 80% of the gear, sure. the other 80% will produce some gear. sure. that just reinforces what I'm trying to say. do you think that 20% is more casual than the rest?
even If they were all casuals, the less casuals are producing most of the gear..and even if they were all hardcore, the most hardcore are producing most of the gear. and before you mention it, sure you can find that one guy who only logs in, plays the market, then processes and logs off...outliers don't disprove generalities in this case.
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
You are truly the poster child for Reductio Ad Absurdum.
I prefer for a normal amount of people to spend a normal amount of time on Freeholds.
Maybe they should follow a Pareto Distribution?
define normal amount?
also, remember that freehold are limited in numbers, so I'm not sure why you are saying normal amount of people. you cant have more freehold owners than you can have freehold...the normal amount is every fh has an owner?
but please answer the question. the reason I'm pursuing this is because someone said they prefer if casuals dominated the servers. I'm pointing out how that would be bad for everyone.
so as a hypothetical, just to test your logic:
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
Your hypothetical is profoundly stupid.
20% of Freehold Owners will produce 80% of the gear, right?
But the other 80% are still contributing to the game in many ways.
So, I prefer that 80% of Freehold Owners are people who play 1-2 hours a week, or something.
If anyone has ever taught you that you can make a point by creating a whole new one to declare victory on, smack that person.
no no, see you arent getting it and you are calling my hypothetical stupid. at least get it right first.
100% of freehold owners will produce 100% of the best processed items in the game, including the best gear. remember that the best processing can only be done in freehold.
simple analogy. lets say nike factories (and every brand if you want) only make shoes 1 hour a day vs 9 hours a day. wouldn't it take longer for everyone to get shoes? so they will be walking barefoot meanwhile since they cant make shoes themselves.
also, I didn't mention it because I thought it was obvious, but my example doesn't stop at freehold. to answer what would other people who arent fh owners do, well they are casuals as well. gatherers will be casuals who play a couple of hours a week, crafting as well, actual crafting is just clicking but remember that you will need time, assumed in months, to max out your crafting, so who will max out crafting first, someone playing 1-2 hours a week, or someone who plays 10-15 hours a day?
so please answer my questions. at this point you guys are arguing that 2 + 2 is whatever you want and not 4.
No one cares.
It will just be tuned to whatever it needs to be. If it were me, I'd absolutely NOT want a design where everything is run by 'no-lifers' churning out product for the masses.
You literally just went 'more is better' and decided to plant your flag on that hill.
More isn't automatically better. A game doesn't need nor want to consist of only 'the best, and people trying to be the best' and content in that game shouldn't be built entirely around 'ok, everyone who doesn't care about being the best can exit stage left'.
The 9 hour factory produces more shoes. More 9 hour factories make more shoes.
The question is how many people buy shoes.
Sorry, my native language is Erlang.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
You are truly the poster child for Reductio Ad Absurdum.
I prefer for a normal amount of people to spend a normal amount of time on Freeholds.
Maybe they should follow a Pareto Distribution?
define normal amount?
also, remember that freehold are limited in numbers, so I'm not sure why you are saying normal amount of people. you cant have more freehold owners than you can have freehold...the normal amount is every fh has an owner?
but please answer the question. the reason I'm pursuing this is because someone said they prefer if casuals dominated the servers. I'm pointing out how that would be bad for everyone.
so as a hypothetical, just to test your logic:
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
Your hypothetical is profoundly stupid.
20% of Freehold Owners will produce 80% of the gear, right?
But the other 80% are still contributing to the game in many ways.
So, I prefer that 80% of Freehold Owners are people who play 1-2 hours a week, or something.
If anyone has ever taught you that you can make a point by creating a whole new one to declare victory on, smack that person.
no no, see you arent getting it and you are calling my hypothetical stupid. at least get it right first.
100% of freehold owners will produce 100% of the best processed items in the game, including the best gear. remember that the best processing can only be done in freehold.
simple analogy. lets say nike factories (and every brand if you want) only make shoes 1 hour a day vs 9 hours a day. wouldn't it take longer for everyone to get shoes? so they will be walking barefoot meanwhile since they cant make shoes themselves.
also, I didn't mention it because I thought it was obvious, but my example doesn't stop at freehold. to answer what would other people who arent fh owners do, well they are casuals as well. gatherers will be casuals who play a couple of hours a week, crafting as well, actual crafting is just clicking but remember that you will need time, assumed in months, to max out your crafting, so who will max out crafting first, someone playing 1-2 hours a week, or someone who plays 10-15 hours a day?
so please answer my questions. at this point you guys are arguing that 2 + 2 is whatever you want and not 4.
No one cares.
It will just be tuned to whatever it needs to be. If it were me, I'd absolutely NOT want a design where everything is run by 'no-lifers' churning out product for the masses.
You literally just went 'more is better' and decided to plant your flag on that hill.
More isn't automatically better. A game doesn't need nor want to consist of only 'the best, and people trying to be the best' and content in that game shouldn't be built entirely around 'ok, everyone who doesn't care about being the best can exit stage left'.
The 9 hour factory produces more shoes. More 9 hour factories make more shoes.
The question is how many people buy shoes.
rea dmy edit. i didn't say the game needs to be designed that way. I'm just saying it would be more beneficial if players produced more. that's separate from personal enjoyment. I'm not saying a casual cant enjoy the game. and its your personal preference not to have a game in this way or that way. but this isn't a solo mmorpg, its a game that requires people to cooperate with each other.
also, the communist in you can be heard right now:
If it were me, I'd absolutely NOT want a design where everything is run by 'no-lifers' churning out product for the masses.
first, there isn't a reason why this would be a bad thing. second, you fail to realize that always a small percentage of producers will produce most of the goods. even if all 100% the players were casuals, some of those casuals will focus more on production than other things, which means they will turn into the "evil elite capitalist overlords" you hate so much since they will be producing most of the things for the masses. its kind of obvious...
and btw, don't you think the fh design is made that way? literally a small percentage of players will be the only ones producing for EVERYOBODY, as opposed to gathering or crafting where you can just make an alt and get it to max tier profession. and I'm not even so sure about crafting, since crafting will be tied to your citizenship (one per account) and the crafting stations available on that node.
anyways, even if you ran naked in verra you can still enjoy the game in your own way. but what about people who wanna clear content, for example. it seems that pvers mostly just care about clearing all content, even if they could get the items they need ina different way. they prioritize clearing the content over acquiring the item from someone else, hence why they cry so much when they are "blocked" from doing something by the pvpers, even though they could get the same item in different ways.
so for these type of players, don't you think having gear is necessary to clear the content they want to clear so much? if they cant have the gear, what are they going to do?they will quickly run out of things to do...so wouldn't it be beneficial if you had more dedicated players gearing up everyone at a decent pace?
whats wrong with people playing 10 hours a day (assuming they don't need to irl, or play at work or whatever) for the game. why do you hate hardcore players so much? only reason I've heard from people here is feelings, basically a "I don't like it because I simply don't, its yucky". no real reason to hate on hardcore players. i don't see hardcore players hating on casuals. funny how things are.
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
1-2 hours per week. Because that is healthier.
But, it's another absurd (and meaningless) hypothetical.
dygs you literally play 8 + hours a day...the hypocrisy.
I'm not asking for whats healthier for a normal life in real. I'm asking for the game itself and people who play it. obviously if you are playing 15 hours a day you arent doing other things with your life, but maybe you don't even need to as your life is already set up. maybe you are retired, maybe you are rich, maybe you even play at work...that's irrelevant, I'm asking for the game itself.
Would you rather everyone buy shoes or everyone make shoes?
first, not everybody can make "shoes" in ashes. remember the number of fh are limited, so its not even possible for everyone who wants to.
second, not everyone will be interested n making shoes. why don't you make your own clothes, hunt your own food, etc.
by your logic, everyperson in the world would need to become an engineer, but also a doctor, but also a teacher, but also a customer service rep. you are saying "lets not cooperate, instead, everybody has to do everything forget expertise in one thing."
even in hunter-gatherer societies everyone had their specific tasks...
I feel like whatever you just made up that I believe, you win.
I yield to [insert thing you think I believe which you find silly].
Answer given tho.
I made assumptions about what you believe based on previous things you have said in the past. if they are wrong, oh well, just say they are and ill take them back.
but stop trying to argue that 2+2 isn't 4. at this point, you guys are being stubborn.
I feel like whatever you just made up that I believe, you win.
I yield to [insert thing you think I believe which you find silly].
Answer given tho.
I made assumptions about what you believe based on previous things you have said in the past. if they are wrong, oh well, just say they are and ill take them back.
but stop trying to argue that 2+2 isn't 4. at this point, you guys are being stubborn.
I apologize for having reactions and not focusing on your hypothetical.
Remember that at some point in the past you requested that I stop using this style of communicating with you and switch to one that is less measured because you like it better.
However, the cost of interacting with you the other way is too high on my end. Sorry for that, but I doubt it matters a lot to you.
1-2 hours a week is better than 10-15 hours a day for all Freehold owners in Ashes of Creation.
well, if thats your answer (1-2hours) then there's nothing I can do for you my friend. i guess we can stop debating this now. i just wanted to know your answer.
and jesus noaani hasn't even replied yet. I'm gonna have to deal with more nonsense later.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
dygz you literally play 8 + hours a day...the hypocrisy.
I'm not asking for whats healthier for a normal life in real. I'm asking for the game itself and people who play it. obviously if you are playing 15 hours a day you arent doing other things with your life, but maybe you don't even need to as your life is already set up. maybe you are retired, maybe you are rich, maybe you even play at work...that's irrelevant, I'm asking for the game itself.
There is no hypocrisy. You did not give 8 hours per day as an option.
You asked which of two options I would prefer. And then when I give my answer, you want to change the parameters.
Not everyone is me.
Everyone is not retired. And your question states "everyone". Your question states "everyone" and everyone is not rich.
So... all of that is relevant when asked what I would prefer everyone to do.
dygz you literally play 8 + hours a day...the hypocrisy.
I'm not asking for whats healthier for a normal life in real. I'm asking for the game itself and people who play it. obviously if you are playing 15 hours a day you arent doing other things with your life, but maybe you don't even need to as your life is already set up. maybe you are retired, maybe you are rich, maybe you even play at work...that's irrelevant, I'm asking for the game itself.
There is no hypocrisy. You did not give 8 hours per day as an option.
You asked which of two options I would prefer. And then when I give my answer, you want to change the parameters.
Not everyone is me.
Everyone is not retired. And your question states "everyone". Your question states "everyone" and everyone is not rich.
So... all of that is relevant when asked what I would prefer everyone to do.
I mentioned the hypocrisy because you said that's healthier. if you hadn't said that sentence, then I wouldn't have said what I said. remember we are talking about the game, not real life.
also, hypotheticals aren't absurd (although they could be), they are designed to test your logic.
edit: you said I'm changing the parameters, 8 hours wasn't an option. sure lets go with that.
my question was specifically for what's better for players inside the game, not outside the game. yet you picked your answer and said that's better for players outside the game. didn't you just change the parameters of my question?
i know it can be hard to change your answers in a public forum, but come on man, don't be so stubborn.
When i played new world was I a no lifer cause i worked everyday and played 8-10 hours a day x.x.
What you are saying makes perfect sense to me, though people are naturally going to be conflicted regardless of their own situation if someone has more of an advantage. Hence you get stubbornness about a comment that they rather play 1-2h a week. Though no casual is playing 1-2h a week.
I'm not a casual but based on how i see players its be more like 2-5 hours a day (which can be on and off).
I think this is a lot more variation really in this discussion if people stop fighting and actually had a disccusion together, on both sides of the spectrum. Yes hardcore players will make more, but also high tier crafting isn't a 24/7 production.
3 hours every day, tht isnt a casual, that's a dedicated player...
and yeah I get it, you are right when you said people complain about the advantage thing...but those are the same people who also say they don't need to rush, just enjoy the game, take it at their own pace etc, they contradict themselves xDD
there are more reasons why dedicated players should own the freehold. i didn't mention them earlier but it has to do with price.
if everybody was a casual, on top of goods not being produced at the rate people want to buy them, every item will be more expensive since everybody wants the item and there arent enough. so people like dygz who abhor profit and greedines etc is gonna have to deal with that at a large scale, since every item will be overpriced. supply and demand.
that means people will take even longer to get an item, since they will have to farm glint for more hours. and then people are gonna complain about prices xDD
its also worse for new players, it will take them even longer to get anything and catch up with veteran players...
if there were more goods produced, the price of each good will be lower (haven't you guys noticed how the first sword in a server is super expensive, and after a few days, the same sword is just cheap?). this means hardcore players will make it easier for casuals and new players coming into the game to get the items they need, at the expense of their own profit. why would you buy a sword for 1000 gold when there are 10 more people selling the same sword for 500. instead of grinding mobs for 10 hours at 100 gold per hour, now you can get your sword with just 5 hours of grinding. so a casual farming mobs 1 hour a week 5 (hours) weeks, rather than 10. but no, lets all hate on dedicated players for no reason. (before you guys start arguing numbers, they are made up as an example btw)
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I mentioned the hypocrisy because you said that's healthier. if you hadn't said that sentence, then I wouldn't have said what I said. remember we are talking about the game, not real life.
That also is absurd.
I rarely spend a day playing video games for 10-15 hours. And, the rare occassions that I do, it is not particularly healthy do so.
But, again, your question is not about me - it's about everyone. And everyone does not have the luxuries that I have that allow me to play 8+ hours a day.
So the answer to your actual question: what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day? is, if I only have two choices, I prefer every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours per week.
my question was specifically for what's better for players inside the game, not outside the game. yet you picked your answer and said that's better for players outside the game. didn't you just change the parameters of my question?
That may be what you meant to ask, but it is not what you actually asked.
"Better for the players inside the game" is also absurd and does not include enough parameters to properly evaluate.
What is the server population?
If the server population is primarily Casuals who play 1-2 hours per week - I would prefer for every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week.
If the server population is primarily Hardcores who play 10-15 hours per week - it's probably better for most freehold owners to play 10-15 hours a week.
Most likely, each server will have a mix of Casuals and Hardcores.
And, sure, there will be some mix with a majority population of Hardcores where the Hardcores might be frustrated that there are not enough freehold owners spending Hardcore time crafting.
i know it can be hard to change your answers in a public forum, but come on man, don't be so stubborn.
Has nothing to do with me changing my answers and everything to do with you having poor logic... and submitting exceedingly flawed questions. And you, then, changing the parameters of the question as if the original question was logical... when it wasn't.
It is not difficult to reply to your posts accordingly.
Your hypotheticals are absurd because you have an exceedingly poor grasp of logic - especially in regard to framing logical arguments.
Some people here are also far more willing to insult than make any genuine attempt to appreciate your PoV. It's bizarre considering we're discussing an MMO here!
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Some people here are also far more willing to insult than make any genuine attempt to appreciate your PoV. It's bizarre considering we're discussing an MMO here!
Very astute self-reflection you have there.
I’m impressed.
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
The two time ranges you have here are not representative of any reasonable group of MMORPG players.
There would be perhaps 10 people per server that fall in to each group.
Then we also have the notion that Ashes will have some form of limiter to economic activity. It won't be labor, but there will be something.
Thus, it is unlikely that someone would be able to spend 10 hours a day being producive on a freehold.
Thus, with these two points under consideration, your question seems to be invalid.
I mentioned the hypocrisy because you said that's healthier. if you hadn't said that sentence, then I wouldn't have said what I said. remember we are talking about the game, not real life.
That also is absurd.
I rarely spend a day playing video games for 10-15 hours. And, the rare occassions that I do, it is not particularly healthy do so.
But, again, your question is not about me - it's about everyone. And everyone does not have the luxuries that I have that allow me to play 8+ hours a day.
So the answer to your actual question: what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day? is, if I only have two choices, I prefer every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours per week.
my question was specifically for what's better for players inside the game, not outside the game. yet you picked your answer and said that's better for players outside the game. didn't you just change the parameters of my question?
That may be what you meant to ask, but it is not what you actually asked.
"Better for the players inside the game" is also absurd and does not include enough parameters to properly evaluate.
What is the server population?
If the server population is primarily Casuals who play 1-2 hours per week - I would prefer for every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week.
If the server population is primarily Hardcores who play 10-15 hours per week - it's probably better for most freehold owners to play 10-15 hours a week.
Most likely, each server will have a mix of Casuals and Hardcores.
And, sure, there will be some mix with a majority population of Hardcores where the Hardcores might be frustrated that there are not enough freehold owners spending Hardcore time crafting.
i know it can be hard to change your answers in a public forum, but come on man, don't be so stubborn.
Has nothing to do with me changing my answers and everything to do with you having poor logic... and submitting exceedingly flawed questions. And you, then, changing the parameters of the question as if the original question was logical... when it wasn't.
It is not difficult to reply to your posts accordingly.
(Gotta run across town to the other office.)
my friend, the hypothetical is designed to test your logic. if your answer Is 1-2 hours a day, then I'm perfectly happy with that and I realize I cant do anything else to convince you that its better for the game and the players to have more dedicated players over casuals (might not be for a different game).
and as you said, not everybody has the luxury to play 8+ hours a day, but we arent talking about everybody, only a small minority. remember that fh owners will be a small minority compared to the whole server population.
you can have all fh owners play 10-15 hours a day (lets say 2000 fh so 2000 players) and the rest 8k-13k players up to 50k eventually can play their 1-2 hours a week, and the game will still be far better for everyone than if every fh owner, and also artisans, only played 1-2 hours a week(well maybe not so good for those hardcore slaves gearing up the whole server xD)
Comments
define normal amount?
also, remember that freehold are limited in numbers, so I'm not sure why you are saying normal amount of people. you cant have more freehold owners than you can have freehold...the normal amount is every fh has an owner?
but please answer the question. the reason I'm pursuing this is because someone said they prefer if casuals dominated the servers. I'm pointing out how that would be bad for everyone.
so as a hypothetical, just to test your logic:
what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
how can people gear up faster and do more content (since you need the gear for it) by having freehold owners who play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day?
edit: I know u were trying to be funny with the pareto distribution, but they shouldn't follow it, it will happen naturally 8D
Your hypothetical is profoundly stupid.
20% of Freehold Owners will produce 80% of the gear, right?
But the other 80% are still contributing to the game in many ways.
So, I prefer that 80% of Freehold Owners are people who play 1-2 hours a week, or something.
If anyone has ever taught you that you can make a point by creating a whole new one to declare victory on, smack that person.
no no, see you arent getting it and you are calling my hypothetical stupid. at least get it right first.
100% of freehold owners will produce 100% of the best processed items in the game, including the best gear. remember that the best processing can only be done in freehold.
simple analogy. lets say nike factories (and every brand if you want) only make shoes 1 hour a day vs 9 hours a day. wouldn't it take longer for everyone to get shoes? so they will be walking barefoot meanwhile since they cant make shoes themselves.
also, I didn't mention it because I thought it was obvious, but my example doesn't stop at freehold. to answer what would other people who arent fh owners do, well they are casuals as well. gatherers will be casuals who play a couple of hours a week, crafting as well, actual crafting is just clicking but remember that you will need time, assumed in months, to max out your crafting, so who will max out crafting first, someone playing 1-2 hours a week, or someone who plays 10-15 hours a day?
so please answer my questions. at this point you guys are arguing that 2 + 2 is whatever you want and not 4.
edit: If you wanna look at the pareto distribution for fh owners you are looking at it incorrectly. 20% of the fh owners will produce 80% of the gear, sure. the other 80% will produce some gear. sure. that just reinforces what I'm trying to say. do you think that 20% is more casual than the rest?
even If they were all casuals, the less casuals are producing most of the gear..and even if they were all hardcore, the most hardcore are producing most of the gear. and before you mention it, sure you can find that one guy who only logs in, plays the market, then processes and logs off...outliers don't disprove generalities in this case.
No one cares.
It will just be tuned to whatever it needs to be. If it were me, I'd absolutely NOT want a design where everything is run by 'no-lifers' churning out product for the masses.
You literally just went 'more is better' and decided to plant your flag on that hill.
More isn't automatically better. A game doesn't need nor want to consist of only 'the best, and people trying to be the best' and content in that game shouldn't be built entirely around 'ok, everyone who doesn't care about being the best can exit stage left'.
The 9 hour factory produces more shoes. More 9 hour factories make more shoes.
The question is how many people buy shoes.
But, it's another absurd (and meaningless) hypothetical.
Y'know what, sure, I'll go with this.
If my only choices are '1-2h a week, or 10-15h a day', I choose 1-2h a week.
rea dmy edit. i didn't say the game needs to be designed that way. I'm just saying it would be more beneficial if players produced more. that's separate from personal enjoyment. I'm not saying a casual cant enjoy the game. and its your personal preference not to have a game in this way or that way. but this isn't a solo mmorpg, its a game that requires people to cooperate with each other.
also, the communist in you can be heard right now:
first, there isn't a reason why this would be a bad thing. second, you fail to realize that always a small percentage of producers will produce most of the goods. even if all 100% the players were casuals, some of those casuals will focus more on production than other things, which means they will turn into the "evil elite capitalist overlords" you hate so much since they will be producing most of the things for the masses. its kind of obvious...
and btw, don't you think the fh design is made that way? literally a small percentage of players will be the only ones producing for EVERYOBODY, as opposed to gathering or crafting where you can just make an alt and get it to max tier profession. and I'm not even so sure about crafting, since crafting will be tied to your citizenship (one per account) and the crafting stations available on that node.
anyways, even if you ran naked in verra you can still enjoy the game in your own way. but what about people who wanna clear content, for example. it seems that pvers mostly just care about clearing all content, even if they could get the items they need ina different way. they prioritize clearing the content over acquiring the item from someone else, hence why they cry so much when they are "blocked" from doing something by the pvpers, even though they could get the same item in different ways.
so for these type of players, don't you think having gear is necessary to clear the content they want to clear so much? if they cant have the gear, what are they going to do?they will quickly run out of things to do...so wouldn't it be beneficial if you had more dedicated players gearing up everyone at a decent pace?
whats wrong with people playing 10 hours a day (assuming they don't need to irl, or play at work or whatever) for the game. why do you hate hardcore players so much? only reason I've heard from people here is feelings, basically a "I don't like it because I simply don't, its yucky". no real reason to hate on hardcore players. i don't see hardcore players hating on casuals. funny how things are.
dygs you literally play 8 + hours a day...the hypocrisy.
I'm not asking for whats healthier for a normal life in real. I'm asking for the game itself and people who play it. obviously if you are playing 15 hours a day you arent doing other things with your life, but maybe you don't even need to as your life is already set up. maybe you are retired, maybe you are rich, maybe you even play at work...that's irrelevant, I'm asking for the game itself.
keep arguing 2 + 2 isn't 4.
I yield to [insert thing you think I believe which you find silly].
Answer given tho.
first, not everybody can make "shoes" in ashes. remember the number of fh are limited, so its not even possible for everyone who wants to.
second, not everyone will be interested n making shoes. why don't you make your own clothes, hunt your own food, etc.
by your logic, everyperson in the world would need to become an engineer, but also a doctor, but also a teacher, but also a customer service rep. you are saying "lets not cooperate, instead, everybody has to do everything forget expertise in one thing."
even in hunter-gatherer societies everyone had their specific tasks...
I made assumptions about what you believe based on previous things you have said in the past. if they are wrong, oh well, just say they are and ill take them back.
but stop trying to argue that 2+2 isn't 4. at this point, you guys are being stubborn.
I apologize for having reactions and not focusing on your hypothetical.
Remember that at some point in the past you requested that I stop using this style of communicating with you and switch to one that is less measured because you like it better.
However, the cost of interacting with you the other way is too high on my end. Sorry for that, but I doubt it matters a lot to you.
1-2 hours a week is better than 10-15 hours a day for all Freehold owners in Ashes of Creation.
and jesus noaani hasn't even replied yet. I'm gonna have to deal with more nonsense later.
You asked which of two options I would prefer. And then when I give my answer, you want to change the parameters.
Not everyone is me.
Everyone is not retired. And your question states "everyone". Your question states "everyone" and everyone is not rich.
So... all of that is relevant when asked what I would prefer everyone to do.
I mentioned the hypocrisy because you said that's healthier. if you hadn't said that sentence, then I wouldn't have said what I said. remember we are talking about the game, not real life.
also, hypotheticals aren't absurd (although they could be), they are designed to test your logic.
edit: you said I'm changing the parameters, 8 hours wasn't an option. sure lets go with that.
my question was specifically for what's better for players inside the game, not outside the game. yet you picked your answer and said that's better for players outside the game. didn't you just change the parameters of my question?
i know it can be hard to change your answers in a public forum, but come on man, don't be so stubborn.
What you are saying makes perfect sense to me, though people are naturally going to be conflicted regardless of their own situation if someone has more of an advantage. Hence you get stubbornness about a comment that they rather play 1-2h a week. Though no casual is playing 1-2h a week.
I'm not a casual but based on how i see players its be more like 2-5 hours a day (which can be on and off).
I think this is a lot more variation really in this discussion if people stop fighting and actually had a disccusion together, on both sides of the spectrum. Yes hardcore players will make more, but also high tier crafting isn't a 24/7 production.
and yeah I get it, you are right when you said people complain about the advantage thing...but those are the same people who also say they don't need to rush, just enjoy the game, take it at their own pace etc, they contradict themselves xDD
there are more reasons why dedicated players should own the freehold. i didn't mention them earlier but it has to do with price.
if everybody was a casual, on top of goods not being produced at the rate people want to buy them, every item will be more expensive since everybody wants the item and there arent enough. so people like dygz who abhor profit and greedines etc is gonna have to deal with that at a large scale, since every item will be overpriced. supply and demand.
that means people will take even longer to get an item, since they will have to farm glint for more hours. and then people are gonna complain about prices xDD
its also worse for new players, it will take them even longer to get anything and catch up with veteran players...
if there were more goods produced, the price of each good will be lower (haven't you guys noticed how the first sword in a server is super expensive, and after a few days, the same sword is just cheap?). this means hardcore players will make it easier for casuals and new players coming into the game to get the items they need, at the expense of their own profit. why would you buy a sword for 1000 gold when there are 10 more people selling the same sword for 500. instead of grinding mobs for 10 hours at 100 gold per hour, now you can get your sword with just 5 hours of grinding. so a casual farming mobs 1 hour a week 5 (hours) weeks, rather than 10. but no, lets all hate on dedicated players for no reason. (before you guys start arguing numbers, they are made up as an example btw)
I rarely spend a day playing video games for 10-15 hours. And, the rare occassions that I do, it is not particularly healthy do so.
But, again, your question is not about me - it's about everyone. And everyone does not have the luxuries that I have that allow me to play 8+ hours a day.
So the answer to your actual question: what do you prefer, every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week, or 10-15 hours a day? is, if I only have two choices, I prefer every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours per week.
Your hypotheticals are absurd because you have an exceedingly poor grasp of logic - especially in regard to framing logical arguments.
That may be what you meant to ask, but it is not what you actually asked.
"Better for the players inside the game" is also absurd and does not include enough parameters to properly evaluate.
What is the server population?
If the server population is primarily Casuals who play 1-2 hours per week - I would prefer for every freehold owner to play 1-2 hours a week.
If the server population is primarily Hardcores who play 10-15 hours per week - it's probably better for most freehold owners to play 10-15 hours a week.
Most likely, each server will have a mix of Casuals and Hardcores.
And, sure, there will be some mix with a majority population of Hardcores where the Hardcores might be frustrated that there are not enough freehold owners spending Hardcore time crafting.
In general, it's not going to be an issue.
Has nothing to do with me changing my answers and everything to do with you having poor logic... and submitting exceedingly flawed questions. And you, then, changing the parameters of the question as if the original question was logical... when it wasn't.
It is not difficult to reply to your posts accordingly.
(Gotta run across town to the other office.)
I can't claim to have followed this particular convo but.. yeah I've been here a few times, it's not you.
Some people here are also far more willing to insult than make any genuine attempt to appreciate your PoV. It's bizarre considering we're discussing an MMO here!
I’m impressed.
Lal alright mate. Do you see any actual insults of mine or was that just more playground levels of tit-for-tat?
Everyone having to dance around your ego issues is getting boring now. Can we just discuss Ashes with an ounce of civility?
🙄
The two time ranges you have here are not representative of any reasonable group of MMORPG players.
There would be perhaps 10 people per server that fall in to each group.
Then we also have the notion that Ashes will have some form of limiter to economic activity. It won't be labor, but there will be something.
Thus, it is unlikely that someone would be able to spend 10 hours a day being producive on a freehold.
Thus, with these two points under consideration, your question seems to be invalid.
my friend, the hypothetical is designed to test your logic. if your answer Is 1-2 hours a day, then I'm perfectly happy with that and I realize I cant do anything else to convince you that its better for the game and the players to have more dedicated players over casuals (might not be for a different game).
and as you said, not everybody has the luxury to play 8+ hours a day, but we arent talking about everybody, only a small minority. remember that fh owners will be a small minority compared to the whole server population.
you can have all fh owners play 10-15 hours a day (lets say 2000 fh so 2000 players) and the rest 8k-13k players up to 50k eventually can play their 1-2 hours a week, and the game will still be far better for everyone than if every fh owner, and also artisans, only played 1-2 hours a week(well maybe not so good for those hardcore slaves gearing up the whole server xD)