Dev Discussion #63 - Cutscenes

Yenn0war · May 3

I usually skip them in MMO because:
1. I am simply not used to them in an MMO. Cutscenes are more of a single players games thing to me.
2. They are poorly written (full of cliches) with dreadful voice acting
3. Majority of cutscenes are in the raids, so after several runs they tend to become annoying. Especially after you continuously wipe.

MissionCreep · May 3

Don't waste development time on cut-scenes.

That's the bottom line for AoC. The game has a gazillion irons in the fire, don't add 1 more. At game launch (and throughout Alpha 2, closed Beta and open Beta) you're going to constantly be asking What do we delay? What do we put off? What do we cut? And it's going to be SO HARD.

Take care of what's already on your plate and don't start looking around for new things to add to it. Don't make those decisions any harder.

Also, cutscenes are for story and nobody is playing this MMORPG for the story. Lore: yes, of course! I'm not saying we don't care about the world, but this isn't a game based around a scripted plot.

Also, we definitely don't want cut-scenes that go with some event that we're expected to replay for loot/rewards...and therefore whatever "drama" that scene creates will be diminished by replay.

Also there's the annoyance that we will be forced to skip that scene over and over.

Tyranthraxus · May 3

Yours truly prefers cutscenes that are done via in-game video, using a game's game-engine. This certainly allows for inclusion of YOUR OWN character, in the cutscene, and shows off the prowess the design-team has, with the engine.

It's annoying when companies resort to 3rd-party cutscene-animators, because it mis-represents the game to non-players, who might enter the game, expecting more. SWTOR and D&D both do this, and I've always felt that it sets up un-fair expectations for any would-be players.

Cutscenes - when included in an MMO - should really be tied directly to the storyline itself. As long as I know that it involves the storyline, then I don't skip them; If it's just an intro to a new area you're visiting - EVERY time you visit - then I'll usually spacebar past them.

Vaknar · May 3

NiKr wrote: »

Obviously them being voiced is the biggest one. I do like reading lore/quests, but sometimes it's just too much of a chore.

Them looking pretty or be animated is definitely a plus, but not required.

Them showing characters that I know and have talked to before (or that have been referenced in lore) is also big.

I very rarely skip cutscenes (at least when first time seeing them), but those 3 points would be the biggest reasons for me to DEFINITELY not skip a cutscene.

As for examples, the latest cutscene in a World Quest from Genshin was incredible. They're unskippable either way, but even if there was a way to skip them - I would never.

There's more before this clip, but I thought the culmination was a better representation of what I mean.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxSA-q_cgB8hY-O1IolZvw4T2Sv9pLYBjC?si=sxW5xBNnJ6BCLMu1

Also, yeah, MUSIC. Music sells anything, as long as it's great and appropriate for the scene.

And a slight point of annoyance in unvoiced dialogue cutscenes - the subtitles moving WAY TOO FAST. I'm a slow reader and I also want to enjoy the cutscene itself, so reading subs that fly by at mach 3 speed is highly detrimental to my enjoyment.

Gj on laying out your thoughts here!

I watched the clip you included, and I was wondering if all of Genshin's cutscenes have interactivity like this. I noticed it was prompting the player to hit the spacebar, and there were rings that (I assume) required you to go through.

Is this something you're saying that you thought was cool?

Vaknar · May 3

Tride0 wrote: »

I usually skip them, but if they're well done and interesting I generally don't. I'm not generally interested in the story in games though.

What makes the interesting ones skippable to you?

We're very curious to hear why players don't skip the ones they don't skip and why they skip the ones they do.

It sounds like you usually skip them because they're uninteresting to you. I'm curious to hear what makes the ones you find interesting worth watching. Thanks!

Zettrex · May 3

I think cutsceenes are nice to have, but I would prefer it not to be a priority if it delays the game, it would however be an amazing post launch thing to add.

and I rather would like them to be well placed and few with high impact and quality then alot and rushed garbage.

Vaknar · May 3

Dygz wrote: »

I live cutscenes.
The more an Online RPG can make me feel like I'm in a movie, the happier I am.

Dygz, do you have any examples of cutscenes from other MMORPGs or games that did this particularly well?

Vaknar · May 3

Eley wrote: »

I watch cutscenes, but my friends skip them, and they complain about waiting me, until cutscene finishes.

I'm in the same boat! I'm personally always one to watch cutscenes but my friends always skip them.

Sometimes, because of this, I feel obligated to skip them even if I don't want to. That happens primarily in instanced dungeons/raids where I'll otherwise be left behind, lol.

Ludullu · May 3

Vaknar wrote: »

I watched the clip you included, and I was wondering if all of Genshin's cutscenes have interactivity like this. I noticed it was prompting the player to hit the spacebar, and there were rings that (I assume) required you to go through.

Is this something you're saying that you thought was cool?

Nope, this newest region was the first one where we had to actively participate in the cutscene in some way (mostly pressing space and moving around slightly). Later cutscene even had somewhat of a "rhythm game", where you needed to press space on time with the visuals.

As for whether I like it - I would like it if it was something that's in the game right from the start, but I don't really care for it if it's added randomly at some point in the future.

It could also come down to the variety/type of cutscenes. If we can obviously control our character to some extent - I'd be totally fine with more interactivity. But if first part of the cutscene is obviously controlled by the game, but then suddenly we gotta do some action - I'm totally against that personally.

But core feedback here would be "if you do want to add interactivity - have it in the game from the start and tell players in a clear way when this interactivity should be expected".

edit: the circles were there not just for interactivity (cause the game mostly would move you towards them itself), but to add some "action" to the scene. The circles give you a boost of movement, so the feeling of speed in the cutscene is better when you go through those circles. It's a tool for contrasting the "serene movement through water" with the "faster swimming to catch up to another character".

netrimos · May 3

I'd rather have narration than a cutscene. tell me i hear a muffled scream in the distance rather than give me a mediocre cutscene.

Gaul_ · May 3

Having a few, high quality cutscenes is infinitely better than a larger amount of medium quality cutscenes. When my gameplay is suddenly interrupted by a cutscene, I should be thinking: "Holy shit it's a cutscene, I haven't had one of these in a while! Intrepid really went all out for this storyline!"

My favorite cutscenes in games have all been momentous character decisions with plenty of action. I think, as with many things in game design, you can have a significant impact with a small dose. AKA Less is More philosophy.

If I get a cutscene for every major NPC leader's lofty 30 second speech or once every 3 days with each story arc step, then yeah, I will probably skip them. They wouldn't be special.

TorinnRamheart · May 3

With cutscenes: Less is more. I want the cutscenes to feel impactful, and provide the context that is needed that I cannot get through just normal scripted events. Having cutscenes in Ashes of Creation would be really cool, and would provide the narrative landscape to be explored and expanded just beyond lore drops in the form of journal entries. Voice acting would be a HUGE bonus, and would help immerse players into the storyline.

Otr · May 3

Vaknar wrote: »

When it comes to cutscenes, what entices you to not skip them? Tell us about your favorites, and what makes them unique.

Getting some positive buff (luck, speed, XP boost, a legendary...)

murdergroupie · May 3

Cutscenes are generally a nuisance to gameplay and almost invariably skipped if possible.

Only exception involved Destiny 2, not really an MMO, and the cutscenes played like a graphic novel - both engaging and hysterical. I can't imagine anything that cool ever gracing an MMO.

xoxo

Tangent369 · May 3

Baldur's Gate 3 is probably the only game I do not skip them in, it is the model

Laetitian · May 3

Typically I really don't need them in MMOs.

Cutscenes are amazing in games that need them. Linear storybased action games and 3d-platformers have their entire story happen in cutscenes, as well as all the plans for upcoming missions laid out, and then the player just acts out the gameplay parts. That's lovely, and it was 100% fine that they were unskippable, because after that you're on your own to explore the map, find the right place to go, and do what needs to be done there.

In RPGs, you kinda build the story as you go along, so it makes less sense for one grand summary speech to lay out the plot for you. Thinking of Dragon Age dialogue trees here, where all of the plot happens in who you talk to and what you say to them, and who you kill. The summary scene at the end of the bossfight is just fluff on top of the actual story developments that already happened in the dialogues you had and the decisions you made. So they tend to be kept short and sweet, either to reveal a surprising twist, or to reward you with the developments you worked for.

Depending on which of those styles of storytelling your MMO gets closer to, the prevalence of cutscenes should be adjusted.

Saljourn · May 3

Cutscenes in which the characters portrayed used in-game emotes such as cheering over and over or clapping on a loop, ruin the immersion. If there must be a cutscene, it should be a novel experience for the player that adds to the story and not something they would typically see while playing.

Hillefuego · May 4

The only ones I really like are the ones doing a quick fly-through, Zelda style, like someone else mentioned. This introduces you to the vibe of the new area or dungeon before exploring it. The rest of the cutscenes I skip. I'm not interested in story type cutscenes.

To me the story should be embedded into the world and you can choose to extract it by talking to npcs and reading items, points of interest, etc.

It could be cool to have the option to see an overview-cutscene of the node the first time you log in after an upgrade. At least the one where you're a citizen.

Overall very minimal.

Voeltz · May 4

Just to be clear, if we're talking cut scenes like a movie clip where there's no player input in the middle of a dungeon or during a boss fight, I don't think those belong in MMOs. It just kills the tempo of the game if you're constantly barraged by cutscenes, interrupting gameplay. Only time cutscenes would be acceptable to me is during dialog with an npc when a story is being told about important past events, or maybe reading about them in the library that's planned. Fable did a good job with those IMO, Like it was being told from a story book.

Apok · May 4

Only MMO I really watched the cutscenes for was FFXI, because you didn't see them too often due to the main quests being an all day thing. you didn't sit through 20+ cutscenes in a day you spent most of the time you had adventuring and preparing for a fight or some item farming. after putting in preparation and hard work it was nice watching a CS.

FFXIV is the complete opposite I skipped all those cause the story and the missions were so mundane I just couldn't be bothered

Quality over quantity, a CS should be a treat not just an exposition dump

Ghostgg · May 4

Can I propose an alternative? In game cut scenes. Perfect example being half life 2 or other games where you retain full control of your character, voice acted scenes play and you're free to move around the space. I don't care to watch? I'll walk away or do some inventory management, often times I'll watch because it's less...intrusive? I think is how I'd describe it.

Please don't read this and think WoW, yes they do something similar but it's so lifeless. Animations and voice acting are what makes it work.

Edit: I just thought of this, the zone traversal in Lost Ark is spectacular. Think like boss fights or dungeons where you transition from one spot to another and there is epic things happening in the background (including characters fighting) telling the story while you move your character for a purpose. These are some of the most epic "cutscenes" I've ever seen. I recognize it's a different game, but changing world/area states seems like this could be applied in some circumstances. Seriously watch a full playthrough of the Phantom Palace dungeon and tell me it isn't epic.

Liniker · May 4

@Vaknar providing some examples of cutscenes I like,

I really enjoy 2D cutscenes, I think these would be a great fit for AoC as they are cost-effective, a narrator and 2D artists, some VFX and good music and you can tell a great story that wouldn't make me skip

They can be used as the game intro as well as telling the story of new story arcs, new zones, past stories like with the Apoc, introduce new content, dungeons, sieges, there's a lot of things these can be used... If we are not spending a ton of money on fully voiced CGI or in-game BG3 cutscenes, I think this is a no-brainer and I wish MMOs used them a lot more, I think its much, much better than non-voiced in-game ones, some examples:

GW2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2U7uCBpX0s
The Witcher 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd2gz6AxYoA
KCD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcun-HTgCmw

when it comes to in-engine cutscenes as I said before, I'm really not a fan of those with characters not talking just moving their hands with text to read FF14 style, those make me want to skip asap, I would much rather that in-engine cutscenes on UE5 be used for general boss/content intro short videos as those are awesome, for showing landscapes as well with a flying cinematic camera and music no voicing needed for those, or they can be used for story telling but with a narrator on top of whatever is going on,

Here is an example:

https://youtu.be/sCg-ZbyCUJU?si=vNNcN1q3-eLb-VYD

and of course... if the pockets are deep enough, Baldurs Gate 3 is a master class on how to do in-engine cutscenes, but there's need to be voice acting for those, I really feel we are past the days of reading text besides quests, which its fine, reading text for quest is acceptable but not on cutscenes, those are a waste of effort I think as players will just go skip skip,

as for CGI or a Cinematic cutscene... as those are very expensive, I'd save that for a big launch trailer telling the story of the apoc maybe with an action scene with the ancients arriving, maybe using something like Dillia's diary or the Carphin events, and ending with people returning to Verra, that would be awesome, for those of course, WoW cinematics, or even New World intro trailer something on that level would be nice for marketing

Chocometeor · May 4

cutscenes are a must have for me!

Its perfect to present a vibrant and living world to the Player with a good Camera drive and (hopefully) voiced Characters.
With Cutscenes. Zones, Bossfights or Major Events can be intruduced to a player with an immersive feeling.
Like a Cutscene for New Players - Going through the Portal you can bring alot of your game just with a good camera drive through the Portal to the Starting Area.
The same can be done to introduce a New Boss or Dungeon i think its awesome.

A Major Story should be carried out with Cutscenes 100% and people who skip it just dont care about your story so they wont ready it either way..

I think there should be a good amount of them.

Vendoporter · May 4

When it comes to cutscenes, what entices you to not skip them?

Relevancy They have to be relevant for the current content you're doing, and really highlight and
emphasize the importance of the task you're doing.
Graphics Now this may speak for itself, but a good cutscene should look like something out of movie. I remember at the age of 9 seeing the first trailer to World of Warcraft, and in 2003/2004 the graphics of this had never been seen before, and it really starstruck me - and I feel like that is what a cutscene should do.
Length I've not played that much Final Fantasy myself, but cutscenes being the same length as movies are really pushing it. It should be long enough to relay the importance but not so long as to loose the audience.
Voicing Voicing. Just don't even bother otherwise. Oh, and please try to sync the mouth-movement to the sound
Subtitles As a person who doesn't have english as their native language, subtitles are really nice. Sure, we can manage without but it's just such a quality-of-life addon!
Frequency Cutscenes are cool, but not if they come after every quest and every kill and everything you do. Then it becomes too much.

v00d0 · May 4

I really enjoy cutscenes because they help me immerse myself in the game's narrative, especially when I play with my first character and try to keep pace with the story.

However, I'm not particularly fond of cutscenes in MMOs, or more generally, the main storyline where you are portrayed as the sole hero and receive accolades everywhere. This depiction often feels unrealistic because the game world consists of diverse characters, and we are all part of the same journey, contributing in our own ways. Thus, I usually prefer cutscenes that focus on the overall game environment where my character plays a marginal role. The hero-centric storytelling seems more suited to single-player games.

Mag7spy · May 4

Vaknar wrote: »

Glorious Ashes community - it's time for another Dev Discussion! Dev Discussion topics are kind of like a "reverse Q&A" - rather than you asking us questions about Ashes of Creation, we want to ask YOU what your thoughts are.

Our design team has compiled a list of burning questions we'd love to get your feedback on regarding gameplay, your past MMO experiences, and more. Join in on the Dev Discussion and share what makes gaming special to you!

Dev Discussion - Cutscenes

When it comes to cutscenes, what entices you to not skip them? Tell us about your favorites, and what makes them unique.

When it comes to not skipping cutscenes I'd have to say players feeling like they have a sense of control is the best way. When I played Swtor, they didn't have the highest quality cutscenes (in game not the ones made by another studio), but having dialogue choice and feeling like it has some influence of the story and characters made me care a LOT more.

Groups also tend to have a issue where everyone is skipping as fast as possible to keep up together, but in Swtor it had a great system to both, pull everyone in no matter where they were to watch. And also everyone had a chance to roll for who would pick the dialogue in the quest. Which it helped make it more of a fun thing to listen to what was going on rather than rush everything.

One of my favorite moments where i had the most influence was when i corrupted a padawan to the dark side, and you could see the change of her and her character.

Personally i feel that is the best way to do it, as any more mmorpg even if they have things voices and such i tend to skip it. Though im more on the competitive side of things. Which makes it a bit harder to get into things, though swtor did make me care since i felt like i was having an actual impact with choice.

Flare · May 4

I used to enjoy cutscenes when games had worse graphics and when I played mostly single-player games.
Nowadays I usually skip them, especially in multiplayer games when I want to get back to playing with other people. I feel like cutscenes take me out of the game and take away my agency, maybe even isolate me from my friends and fellow players.

In the classic Final Fantasy games with pixel graphics, I loved the cutscenes. They captured the developers' envisioned scenes in a manner that the rest of the game couldn't quite match. Nowadays I feel like the games are already looking the way the developers intended them to look.
To be fair, the cutscenes in modern FF games are amazing, but - and I'm not proud to say this - I now prefer to watch them all in succession like a film rather than play the game, and skip everything I can when playing the game.

What would entice me to watch cutscenes? When it's my choice when to watch them and they're not being forced upon me.

Diura · May 4

I appreciate a good introduction to a game, but a cutscene before or after character creation is a huge no-no for me because I'm too eager to get into the gameplay, so I'll often skip it. Instead, I prefer an in-depth trailer or video to get me hyped and set me up for the lore.

Once I'm in the game, if I'm bombarded with cutscenes after every NPC interaction, my interest goes, and I develop a habit of skipping them. It becomes disengaging because I find myself constantly wondering why I'm being inundated with cutscenes and I'm just waiting for the next skip button rather than focusing on the story.

However, when cutscenes are rare, I become much more engaged. I find myself curious, thinking that the story it conveys must be meaningful due to its rarity.

It does help when you maintain a high standard of cutscene that offer rich lore and good presentation, almost like a wee movie. So whenever a new cutscene happens, I'm looking forward to it.

As for Ashes of Creation, I would suggest avoiding cutscenes for story arcs in the open world. I don't want to feel disconnected from the world by being forced into a cutscene. I love the idea of experiencing visual changes like the Carphin Tower story arc and feeling inspired to explore because of how the world has evolved visually, not because a cutscene instructs me to do so.

I skip a lot of cutscenes, so it's hard for me to reference, but the major Lilith cutscenes in Diablo 4 were the most memorable to me. The storytelling, twists and turns, music—everything was really enjoyable. Graphics aren't important to me; I know they were amazing in Diablo 4, but it was the way the scenes played out that I found engaging. As for all the other cutscenes, I just skipped them.

Oh, and finally, I hate cutscenes where NPCs come and steal your kill. Those are the worst -.-

Sauronplay · May 4

The lore of the game, if the content or story of the game is interesting and attractive, I don't miss it for anything.

For example, the lore of Diablo 4 is incredible, it did not omit any scene. I hope intrepid does the same.

Flare · May 4

So I thought about it a bit more and found one type of cutscenes I actually liked in MMOs. They were the short ~20sek vista cinematics in GW2.
Why did I like those and not other types of cutscenes?
- They were visual spectacles, showcasing stunning vistas and landscapes.
- They encouraged me to explore further, acting as rewards for my curiosity.
- Unlike some other cutscenes, they didn't feel like they were spoon-feeding me information or narrative.
- They weren't lengthy interruptions to gameplay.

Dev Discussion #63 - Cutscenes

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