10-15 SECONDS TTK

According to steven the TTK will be 10-15 seconds , are you guys ready to have fun getting 1 shot all the time , gonna be fun for a lot of the people who loved the game having a 30 sec-1m TTK

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hleV

I assume this is how fast it'll go when you have 100% uptime on your opponent? How about dodging/blocking/kiting/LoSing? Surely that prolongs the fight. This isn't L2 where you're glued to your opponent or locked in and can never miss at range... right?

Tryol

Big dislike, same with the 6s PvE normal mob TTK.

I think both needs to be doubled, but I guess we'll see once we test it..

JustVine

I wonder what the ttk on a duo vs a summon looks like....

Otr

JustVine wrote: »

With ttk this low I really doubt Summoners can be good. but hey maybe their ai will mysteriously massively improve to make quick intelligent decisions and it'll be op. But having to rotary phone every skill through another entity really makes this ttk just not work out especially when one of the classes has a smartphone in comparison.

Maybe the summons will have a higher TTK.
I'd like the summons to keep fighting even if the character is down, as a nearby cleric can resurrect him.

CROW3

After listening to the AMA, the 10-15s isn’t the real issue, it’s the insistence that lowering the TTK will act as a balancing ploy versus zerging.

The mantra he said a few times is that a skilled smaller group that can communicate and organize will always beat a disorganized larger force.

A couple points to think about:

1. This IS true, but only for short periods of time. Asymmetric warfare uses guerilla tactics to wear a larger force down, but in the long run larger numbers will prevail in an extended conflict.
2. What happens when the larger force IS the more organized, skilled, and communicate more effectively? You’re either in the gang or subject to it
3. I’m extrapolating here, but this will basically eliminate solo/small group players going red and INCREASE players in organized guilds going red - resulting in the exact opposite intent of player corruption.

Githal

hleV wrote: »

I assume this is how fast it'll go when you have 100% uptime on your opponent? How about dodging/blocking/kiting/LoSing? Surely that prolongs the fight. This isn't L2 where you're glued to your opponent or locked in and can never miss at range... right?

Well with TTK my understanding is this is the time it takes to kill player in real fight, not attacking afk player.
and 15 sec is way too low.

Arya_Yeshe

No one can predict the time yet, not even Intrepid, this is due to the fact that we don't even know the skills and gear there will be in the future, people in higher levels will probably have a lot of sustain and a fight will take over a minute

Dygz

CROW3 wrote: »

After listening to the AMA, the 10-15s isn’t the real issue, it’s the insistence that lowering the TTK will act as a balancing ploy versus zerging.

The mantra he said a few times is that a skilled smaller group that can communicate and organize will always beat a disorganized larger force.

A couple points to think about:

1. This IS true, but only for short periods of time. Asymmetric warfare uses guerilla tactics to wear a larger force down, but in the long run larger numbers will prevail in an extended conflict.
2. What happens when the larger force IS the more organized, skilled, and communicate more effectively? You’re either in the gang or subject to it
3. I’m extrapolating here, but this will basically eliminate solo/small group players going red and INCREASE players in organized guilds going red - resulting in the exact opposite intent of player corruption.

Curious to see how players react while testing the TTK, rather than the devs.
Especially new testers.

Githal

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

No one can predict the time yet, not even Intrepid, this is due to the fact that we don't even know the skills and gear there will be in the future, people in higher levels will probably have a lot of sustain and a fight will take over a minute

Well in WOW Wotlk (since the pvp there was best, from wow expansions), the average 1v1 ttk was like 40-60 sec, ofc there were a lot variables and if you outplay the opponent the ttk can even be 6-7 sec. And with this in a group content you could see players die for 3-4 sec when focused.

If AOC ttk is low on 1v1 scale, in group content you wont have time to react before you get oneshotted

Dygz

More importantly, there should be enough time to see what groupmates are doing and attempt to adjust and synergize attacks or defenses on the fly.

Mag7spy

CROW3 wrote: »

After listening to the AMA, the 10-15s isn’t the real issue, it’s the insistence that lowering the TTK will act as a balancing ploy versus zerging.

The mantra he said a few times is that a skilled smaller group that can communicate and organize will always beat a disorganized larger force.

A couple points to think about:

1. This IS true, but only for short periods of time. Asymmetric warfare uses guerilla tactics to wear a larger force down, but in the long run larger numbers will prevail in an extended conflict.
2. What happens when the larger force IS the more organized, skilled, and communicate more effectively? You’re either in the gang or subject to it
3. I’m extrapolating here, but this will basically eliminate solo/small group players going red and INCREASE players in organized guilds going red - resulting in the exact opposite intent of player corruption.

Reducing solo heavy some some of small group pvp would be the point of corruption. As that reducing the general chaos of someone acting ont heir own to go corrupt. This leans more towards a benefit for pve players. And how i felt the goal of corruption was always meant to be.

Though it doesn't increase group pvp suddenly that doesn't really change, it technically by your point will only lower other kinds of pvp. Group pvp has its own risk, even more so if DPS people kill most the people and stack corruption (which has big negative effects and makes them targets)

Ludullu

Depraved wrote: »

bruh... don't tell me you never had macros of the enemies doombringer sand the whole command channel of dozens if not hundreds of people wouldn't target the same dude to kill him during barakiel or epic bosses fight.

Yes, we did, but like I said raid situations were way rarer than group vs group situations. So hearing Steven say "when it comes to groups..." - I think about group pvp, not raid pvp.

Depraved wrote: »

party vs party not so much. think about it logically, the game is made so that 1 healer can keep a party alive. if party vs party you get one shotted, then whats the point of healer? all you gonna do is revive then?

Well, "revive is cheaper than a heal"

Depraved wrote: »

warrior and dagger are coming, you have time to react to that, use shields, aggression, etc, etc. one person gets targetted by all 4 dps? well that's 4 skills in a second, you can heal. maybe you wont be able to perma heal that but will extend that players life and hopefully your team will cc the enemies or whatever.

Rogue has full stealth and warrior jumps a god damn mile and potentially from a higher point as well.

So just as you asked me about the name macros, I gotta ask you: don't tell me your party never had a dagger who'd try to backstab a bishop out of stealth before the fight even started

Depraved

hleV wrote: »

I assume this is how fast it'll go when you have 100% uptime on your opponent? How about dodging/blocking/kiting/LoSing? Surely that prolongs the fight. This isn't L2 where you're glued to your opponent or locked in and can never miss at range... right?

well aoc is tab targetted but we will also have active blocks and dodges. so yeah not exactly like l2. l2 could get a bit unfair sometimes because of the target system.

Tryol wrote: »

Big dislike, same with the 6s PvE normal mob TTK.

I think both needs to be doubled, but I guess we'll see once we test it..

I love short ttk on mobs. it also makes sense for a game with owpvp and where you have to compete for farming spots. if killing a mob takes too long (beside it being boring) then that decreases the competition between players, because everybody will always shave one mob (or then the are agets too crowded and no one pvp).

CROW3 wrote: »

After listening to the AMA, the 10-15s isn’t the real issue, it’s the insistence that lowering the TTK will act as a balancing ploy versus zerging.

The mantra he said a few times is that a skilled smaller group that can communicate and organize will always beat a disorganized larger force.

A couple points to think about:

1. This IS true, but only for short periods of time. Asymmetric warfare uses guerilla tactics to wear a larger force down, but in the long run larger numbers will prevail in an extended conflict.
2. What happens when the larger force IS the more organized, skilled, and communicate more effectively? You’re either in the gang or subject to it
3. I’m extrapolating here, but this will basically eliminate solo/small group players going red and INCREASE players in organized guilds going red - resulting in the exact opposite intent of player corruption.

true but don't you think the large organize group deserves the victory? why would the small disorganized group deserves it?

what about 2 lrge groups, lets say 250 vs 250. one is very organized and one isn't. who should win?

Depraved

NiKr wrote: »

Depraved wrote: »

bruh... don't tell me you never had macros of the enemies doombringer sand the whole command channel of dozens if not hundreds of people wouldn't target the same dude to kill him during barakiel or epic bosses fight.

Yes, we did, but like I said raid situations were way rarer than group vs group situations. So hearing Steven say "when it comes to groups..." - I think about group pvp, not raid pvp.

Depraved wrote: »

party vs party not so much. think about it logically, the game is made so that 1 healer can keep a party alive. if party vs party you get one shotted, then whats the point of healer? all you gonna do is revive then?

Well, "revive is cheaper than a heal"

Depraved wrote: »

warrior and dagger are coming, you have time to react to that, use shields, aggression, etc, etc. one person gets targetted by all 4 dps? well that's 4 skills in a second, you can heal. maybe you wont be able to perma heal that but will extend that players life and hopefully your team will cc the enemies or whatever.

Rogue has full stealth and warrior jumps a god damn mile and potentially from a higher point as well.

So just as you asked me about the name macros, I gotta ask you: don't tell me your party never had a dagger who'd try to backstab a bishop out of stealth before the fight even started

1- mi amor, a group is 2 or more people. he didn't say party. a half party is a group. a full party is a group. a raid is a group. a command channel is a group.

2- true

3- yes ofc. but you have anti stealth...you can also see the warrior jumping and prepare

and yeah duh if we were gonna pk, the dagger would pk the bishop but we weren't always pking or getting pked. sometimes dagger would just get in position and this is only in small pvp...remember u also have an elder heal spamming the bishop. in mass pvp, daggers couldn't do that very well...mass pvp is mages and archers and gladi to an extent.

if u mean outta hide (old chronicles didn't have hide), we had to wait for them to flag...hide is only 30 seconds. if you know he is hidden, don't flag and wait...(did that all the time) or put ur back to a wall xd

Ludullu

Depraved wrote: »

3- yes ofc. but you have anti stealth...you can also see the warrior jumping and prepare
and yeah duh if we were gonna pk, the dagger would pk the bishop but we weren't always pking or getting pked. sometimes dagger would just get in position and this is only in small pvp...remember u also have an elder heal spamming the bishop. in mass pvp, daggers couldn't do that very well...mass pvp is mages and archers and gladi to an extent.

if u mean outta hide (old chronicles didn't have hide), we had to wait for them to flag...hide is only 30 seconds. if you know he is hidden, don't flag and wait...(did that all the time) or put ur back to a wall xd

I'm talking about war/siege situations, cause PKing situations are a whole different thing.

We don't know what kind of anti-stealth AoC will have yet. L2 only really had it on Archers and even then they had to spam it constantly to protect their healers. Spamming aoes on mages would've burned through their mana needlessly.

Also, we obviously don't know if Rogues will even benefit from backstabbing or hits from stealth. I assume they will, cause that's just logical for a rogue, but it's still not a 100% feature.

And like I said, if I'm wrong - cool, great, I hope I am. But right now I don't really see that being the case, judging by all the things Steven has said.

unknown

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CROW3

Depraved wrote: »

true but don't you think the large organize group deserves the victory? why would the small disorganized group deserves it?

what about 2 lrge groups, lets say 250 vs 250. one is very organized and one isn't. who should win?

No, you have to earn wins whether you're organized or not. I don't think this mindset gives much room for folks to make headway against a larger, moderately coordinated team.

In a 250 v 250 game, there are a lot more variables than premade v. pug that determine the outcome. I don't think 'deserve' or 'should' has a place in competition. You 'earn' wins via skill & execution.

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