I want a SOLID PROMISE from Intrepid that AoC won't "Jumanji" us, after seeing this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cdBcfLhJVY

This is also why I'll be downloading my copy online, versus buying a copy from an old lady at an estate sale.

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Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

My argument is if someone bought way finder expecting a true mmorpg did not do their research.

And my argument is that someone that did do their research would not be happy with what the game is now.

If you don't believe me, just talk to people that were happy with what the game was.

If they did do their research they would have not bought the game cause its a destiny style mmorpg.

But if they wanted a Destiny style MMO...

Did they? Cause destiny isn't a mmo (less than 20 people on a instanced inst really mmo) its just a label thrown on to live service games. Since you are playing solo or in qued lobbies pretty sure the entire time (unless you group with friends).

You are missing the point - probably intentionally as usual.

People looked in to the game. Some of these people decided it looks like a game they want to play. They paid the developer money to play that game. That is no longer what the game is.

You don't get to sit there and say "well, it wasn't a proper MMO anyway", because people looked at what the game was, and paid money for that.

Again, it would be like Ashes switching to a PvE game - what do you mean you didn't expect it? Intrepid have long since stated that they would love to compete with WoW for the top end raiding market (actual statement made).

I feel you are missing the point. You keep saying people did their research but if they did they know full well the gameplay loop doesn't change because its not actually a mmorpg. That is not how the game play, and there is really no change except for worse monetization and longer grinding, and a worse loot system.

The game is literarily the same thing, there is no evidence they were going to create a giant open world with hundreds of people on it doing quest in the same area. The game was arpg to begin with mmorpg thrown on it. The most you can say their marketing was on the same level as people that say destiny is a mmorpg and not exactly true.

Gameplay is out there, people like me played the alpha there was really no surprises as it was very clear on what to expect. The same way before how you can group with people is still a fact in the changes they are making. You can still invite your friends and group up.

Did you even play wayfinder, looking at the game it is obvious its not a proper mmorpg. You are making a argument as if the perspective of someone that didn't know anything about the game and heard it was called a mmorpg (aka did 0 research).

Having a lobby with less than 20 people walking around a small map with that being like less that 10% of the content you run as well isn't really a mmo (meaning before pre mid game there is no reason to do content there, so no reason for people to be there).

The proper example would be AoC switches to a pvp game and everything stays the same. Because that pretty much is wayfinder with the content you are running, nothing changes.

Aszkalon

daveywavey wrote: »

For some reason, Tyranthraxus doesn't want to be sucked into Verra...!

It is kinda baffling that when Someone more or less does a decent Job informing oneself about the World of Verra for a few Months,

and has a good Impression and hunch what the Game will be like - > to add since quite a few Years already,

that suddenly there still come Topics popping up that seem like Someone wants a somewhat or entirely different Game in the End. While in fact everyone kiiiiinnnda knows what the People are getting when Ashes finally releases.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

I feel you are missing the point. You keep saying people did their research but if they did they know full well the gameplay loop doesn't change because its not actually a mmorpg.

And I feel you are missing the point - those that did their research bought in to the game as it was, and that is not what the game is now.

What definition you want to give the game doesn't matter. What aspects of the game you think are the same doesn't matter.

Did you even play wayfinder, looking at the game it is obvious its not a proper mmorpg.

I really don't get why you think this is important.

If a game was marketed as an RTS, but when it released the developers decided to make it a FPS, would your defense of them be that " its not a proper mmorpg"?

I would hope not, even you wouldn't make that argument.

Yes, Wayfinder wasn't a "proper" MMORPG, it was an MMOlite. Now it is not an MMOlite, it is a single player RPG with co-op.

The proper example would be AoC switches to a pvp game and everything stays the same. Because that pretty much is wayfinder with the content you are running, nothing changes.

No, because Ashes as a PvP only game simply doesn't work. The game literally wouldn't function.

Ashes as a PvE only game does.

Otr

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

Jumanji = Game

Ashes of Creation = Game

Possibility of being "Jumanji'd" into AoC = same chances.

There would be no way to RMT anymore.
No multi-boxing either!
Just touch the portal.

ShadowVen

@Tyranthraxus

Yeah I was well aware of the meaning of the video and understood the meaning overall. I just didnt know you were a jumanji believer. So don't play any board games or table tops ;P
This aint gonna be a SAO moment
When i gateway into Verrra, ill be logging out at some point. If you're stuck in there just guard our stuff and talk with NPC's, you never know they may say something different to you after speaking with them 1000 times.

CROW3

Well, if we get Jumanji’d maybe we’ll have a chance to meet Robin, and say thank you.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

I feel you are missing the point. You keep saying people did their research but if they did they know full well the gameplay loop doesn't change because its not actually a mmorpg.

And I feel you are missing the point - those that did their research bought in to the game as it was, and that is not what the game is now.

What definition you want to give the game doesn't matter. What aspects of the game you think are the same doesn't matter.

Did you even play wayfinder, looking at the game it is obvious its not a proper mmorpg.

I really don't get why you think this is important.

If a game was marketed as an RTS, but when it released the developers decided to make it a FPS, would your defense of them be that " its not a proper mmorpg"?

I would hope not, even you wouldn't make that argument.

Yes, Wayfinder wasn't a "proper" MMORPG, it was an MMOlite. Now it is not an MMOlite, it is a single player RPG with co-op.

The proper example would be AoC switches to a pvp game and everything stays the same. Because that pretty much is wayfinder with the content you are running, nothing changes.

No, because Ashes as a PvP only game simply doesn't work. The game literally wouldn't function.

Ashes as a PvE only game does.

I don understand how many times i have to say things you are trying to say the game is different, with the direction there going the gameplay loop is literally the same. QUE a dungeon go in the dungeon and fight mobs.

Again you clearly have NOT played the game that is why you do not understand. Even saying the game was mmolite is stretching. Almost every element of the complete game is the same as a single player - coop game. The game was already like that before to begin with this is why i keep telling you nothing has changed. You seriously don't understand mmo elements of the game were non existent. Or you better start calling any game with a lobby a mmorpg, and why not stretch that to text lobbies as well now to.

The only argument you can make is random people will not join your game, which that didn't happen very often to begin with.

Its like you read what im saying but you change the context of it even though i typed the words to fit your narrative. Im going to repeat.

This is the same as AoC becoming a PvP game but everything on the game STAYING THE EXACT SAME as it was. That includes PvE mobs around and all the elements of the content.

Aoc as a pve game doesn't work the point is pvp changes the world. It being pve only is a actual change as it affects gamepaly loops, AKA WAYfinder isn't actually changing the base content loop you are doing in the game. You start a dungeon and run it.

Mag7spy

Like you must be down bad if you arguing wayfinder right now without understanding the game.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Again you clearly have NOT played the game that is why you do not understand. Even saying the game was mmolite is stretching. Almost every element of the complete game is the same as a single player - coop game.

Fact is, they have taken the game off the market for now in order to not sell it to people expecting the game as it was.

If you think the game is the same, yet they think it is different enough to stop making money from it for now, then all that means is that you are wrong.

Argue all you like.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Again you clearly have NOT played the game that is why you do not understand. Even saying the game was mmolite is stretching. Almost every element of the complete game is the same as a single player - coop game.

Fact is, they have taken the game off the market for now in order to not sell it to people expecting the game as it was.

If you think the game is the same, yet they think it is different enough to stop making money from it for now, then all that means is that you are wrong.

Argue all you like.

Tons of context needs to be taken in with that, like the fact they are wiping all progress and such. It would make no sense for people to be buying it with the changes that will be going on. The MAIN point I'm getting across is the core of the game is the same. IE you run randomly generated dungeons usually solo or with friends.

And they were not making money, else the game would have kept going no one was playing it. They are trying to do the smart thing and reboot and remarket it. The changes they are doing is increasing the ARPG element of the game (based on what they were saying). Rather than find mats and craft stuff you are going to kill things and be able to grind gear and stats like that (is my assumption based on them saying more arpg).

Why do you think they are doing this direction to begin with, because again that is literally what the game was, the elements were just weaker. Because the publisher would have wanted to monetarize off longer weapon progressions to get people to buy weapon over make them.

The only argument you can make is in the future it could have been designed as more of a mmorpg. But if you did your RESEARCH mmo features were almost non existent in the game from launch til now.

TL;DR Core of the game is not changing and remaining the same( run instanced dungeons no open world interaction pass low levels), what is changing is the gearing system being more closer to a ARPG over a bad monetization model.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

The MAIN point I'm getting across is the core of the game is the same.

And the main point I am getting across is that the core of the game is not the whole game.

You need only look at these forums to see how much people care about aspects of the game that are not the "core" of it. How many people will say they will or won't play a game based on elements that are not a part of that "core".

If that is your main point, you have no point.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

The MAIN point I'm getting across is the core of the game is the same.

And the main point I am getting across is that the core of the game is not the whole game.

You need only look at these forums to see how much people care about aspects of the game that are not the "core" of it. How many people will say they will or won't play a game based on elements that are not a part of that "core".

If that is your main point, you have no point.

I feel like I'm not really getting it across to you. There is like 0 mmo qualities with game, sitting in a lobby with 10 people isn't a mmorpg. When i say CORE i don't' mean there are a bunch of other small elements. The open world area that has less than 20 people in it is not a mmo, even if for some reason you want to say that is a mmo....Your interactions with that lead only up to before mid game. Than there is no other open world elements to interact with other players and you only do dungeon running.

You are trying to argue wayfinder being a mmorpg without trading, market, proper party grouping (game relies on dungeon ques and no actual reason to group), servers with less than 20 people (me saying 20 is being generous I'm pretty sure its 10 or below).

Like the devs have been making a ARPG from the start they just had a hub and tried to go a bit above it. Even if we look at older articles on the game the devs called it a ARPG.

https://mmos.com/news/wayfinder-digital-extremes-reveal-trailer#:~:text=The maximum size for these Lost Zone adventures,party sizes to find out what works best.

Why are you arguing this, again i don't even think you played the game or even extensively, so you don't understand the scope of what I'm talking about. Effectively you heard mmorpg but didn't do your research on how the game actually is. It be like calling AoC a action game because they have action elements and not saying its a mmorpg.

*Edit as i said before the mmorpg elements is marketing in a genre that is dry in attempt to attract people. Same way destiny is referred to as mmorpg (which destiny has many more elements than Wayfinder since you get to a point and you don't do content in that area anymore early on)

So again you have not played the game, you don't know what you are talking about.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

I feel like I'm not really getting it across to you.

That is because you are ignoring what I am telling you I am already fully aware of, and are sticking to the wrong point.

You are trying to argue wayfinder being a mmorpg without trading, market, proper party grouping (game relies on dungeon ques and no actual reason to group), servers with less than 20 people (me saying 20 is being generous I'm pretty sure its 10 or below).

I'm not arguing that - I neither care about any of that, nor is any of that related to the point I made above that you are arguing (you are arguing this point, not me - I am simply defending the original point I made).

The game now is so far removed from what it was marketed as, that the people selling the game have stopped selling it.

It doesn't matter if the game was what you consider an MMO or not, the genre of it doesn't matter at all. Like, not even a little bit.

What matters is that the game has changed so much that the people selling it have stopped selling it.

Are you going to argue that point?

Aszkalon

* sigh * ... ... ... i can not help to notice the lack of things to talk about, because the last Presentation was only lighting in the dark of Night ... ... ^.^

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

I feel like I'm not really getting it across to you.

That is because you are ignoring what I am telling you I am already fully aware of, and are sticking to the wrong point.

You are trying to argue wayfinder being a mmorpg without trading, market, proper party grouping (game relies on dungeon ques and no actual reason to group), servers with less than 20 people (me saying 20 is being generous I'm pretty sure its 10 or below).

I'm not arguing that - I neither care about any of that, nor is any of that related to the point I made above that you are arguing (you are arguing this point, not me - I am simply defending the original point I made).

The game now is so far removed from what it was marketed as, that the people selling the game have stopped selling it.

It doesn't matter if the game was what you consider an MMO or not, the genre of it doesn't matter at all. Like, not even a little bit.

What matters is that the game has changed so much that the people selling it have stopped selling it.

Are you going to argue that point?

The game hasn't changed your argument could be it wasn't developed into what someone might hope. But if you had researched the game it isn't different than what it is right now with them focusing it as an arpg. Nothing is really being taken away as it wasn't really there to begin with.

I'm not going to argue what it was marketed as, the same way people try to advocate for destiny being a mmorpg (it isn't). That whole marketing is to try to sell the game in a mmorpg starved market. They tried to throw on the mmorpg tag without having mmorpg features.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

The game hasn't changed.

Oh, is that why they stopped selling it and are doing what they can to assist with refunds?

Again, you can argue all you like - the facts simply don't support your argument here.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

The game hasn't changed.

Oh, is that why they stopped selling it and are doing what they can to assist with refunds?

Again, you can argue all you like - the facts simply don't support your argument here.

Again if you played the game you would understand. Like i already said you can make a argument that do to their marketing they should be adding more mmorpg features into the game and part of the reason for all the hr stuff.

The original point of this discussion was if you did your research on the game you would know the lack of mmorpg features in the game (To the point the game was not a mmorpg), and it just being a arpg. If you did not do your research you are just going based off what you have heard and assuming its a mmorpg because they said they had some mmorpg features.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

The original point of this discussion was if you did your research on the game you would know the lack of mmorpg features in the game

No - that was just the part you wanted to focus on.

The original point was that we don't want Intrepid to alter the game so much they feel they need to stop selling it and offer players refunds.

Again, you can argue all you like - no one cares about what you are arguing though.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

The original point of this discussion was if you did your research on the game you would know the lack of mmorpg features in the game

No - that was just the part you wanted to focus on.

The original point was that we don't want Intrepid to alter the game so much they feel they need to stop selling it and offer players refunds.

Again, you can argue all you like - no one cares about what you are arguing though.

Wait are you telling me the point i want to focus on was your statement, is if you did your research on the game you would know its not really a change because its going to play the same as launch with wayfinder (if not better if you add better arpg gearing mechanics). Obviously I'm going to focus on what i want to focus on with my own statement.

If you are trying to focus on some other thing, idk what you are going on about.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

If you are trying to focus on some other thing, idk what you are going on about.

As I have been saying - the point is that the game has changed so much that the developers stopped selling it (for a month or so), and are doing what they can to facilitate refunds.

As my first post in this thread suggested - lets hope they don't do that here.

This - for reference - is that post;

Noaani wrote: »

Would you rather they Wayfinder you?

You are the one that started arguing from that point.

My point was and is simply the above quoted post.

Again, argue all you want.

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