10-15 SECONDS TTK

According to steven the TTK will be 10-15 seconds , are you guys ready to have fun getting 1 shot all the time , gonna be fun for a lot of the people who loved the game having a 30 sec-1m TTK

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Mag7spy

Azherae wrote: »

Aszkalon wrote: »

Six Seconds. Seven at most.

WHEN SOMEONE " DOESN'T - FIGHT BACK " - You shouldn't "NEED" - a tiny ETERNITY to kill him/her.

It's the characters that are fighting, though, and that will always factor, in this type of game.

If I build enough evasion (to the point of giving up any other sensible thing), I generally 'should' be able to double the time it takes for you to kill me even if I do nothing at all, because that's the type of game Ashes is.

What if you build evasion and have active block and have some self sustain can you more than double it ;o

Azherae

Mag7spy wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Aszkalon wrote: »

Six Seconds. Seven at most.

WHEN SOMEONE " DOESN'T - FIGHT BACK " - You shouldn't "NEED" - a tiny ETERNITY to kill him/her.

It's the characters that are fighting, though, and that will always factor, in this type of game.

If I build enough evasion (to the point of giving up any other sensible thing), I generally 'should' be able to double the time it takes for you to kill me even if I do nothing at all, because that's the type of game Ashes is.

What if you build evasion and have active block and have some self sustain can you more than double it ;o

The self-sustain would need to be completely automatic, technically so would the active block.

Remember kids, my character is never just standing there. Dodging, weaving, making people tired.

If you didn't miss with at least 30% MP-worth of skills that you threw at me, I didn't have enough Evasion yet.

Mag7spy

Azherae wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

Aszkalon wrote: »

Six Seconds. Seven at most.

WHEN SOMEONE " DOESN'T - FIGHT BACK " - You shouldn't "NEED" - a tiny ETERNITY to kill him/her.

It's the characters that are fighting, though, and that will always factor, in this type of game.

If I build enough evasion (to the point of giving up any other sensible thing), I generally 'should' be able to double the time it takes for you to kill me even if I do nothing at all, because that's the type of game Ashes is.

What if you build evasion and have active block and have some self sustain can you more than double it ;o

The self-sustain would need to be completely automatic, technically so would the active block.

Remember kids, my character is never just standing there. Dodging, weaving, making people tired.

If you didn't miss with at least 30% MP-worth of skills that you threw at me, I didn't have enough Evasion yet.

On paper all the stat stuff does excite me, but i really need to play it myself to fully believe it. I get to many wild ideas thinking on armor types, and all the different stats with dnd rpg vibes. Its too good to be true v.v, as it gives me the old school mmo vibe.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

If you didn't miss with at least 30% MP-worth of skills that you threw at me, I didn't have enough Evasion yet.

I forget if I've asked this before but, did FF11's evasion let you evade spells as well? I assume BDO's does, right? Cause it seems like people are hitting each other with some magic stuff in those evasion build videos.

Saabynator

NiKr wrote: »

Saabynator wrote: »

Im danish, and I got it right away . You dont need to be rottbrained to see you wanted to have fun with the word.

Guess you're just racist then, if that's immediately where you mind went.

Yea, obviously, I hate a race, because I can see you making fun with a word. That makes 100% sense, just not sure on what planet.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

If you didn't miss with at least 30% MP-worth of skills that you threw at me, I didn't have enough Evasion yet.

I forget if I've asked this before but, did FF11's evasion let you evade spells as well? I assume BDO's does, right? Cause it seems like people are hitting each other with some magic stuff in those evasion build videos.

You have evasion for everything but there is magic, physical and special evasion, dmg reduction as well. Though generally your evasion comes from your armour (whcih effects all kinds of attacks) + special evasion crystals and such. But im sure there is more things they added since i quit.

Ludullu

Saabynator wrote: »

Yea, obviously, I hate a race, because I can see you making fun with a word. That makes 100% sense, just not sure on what planet.

Just to clarify for you, and anyone else who might be interested, my name is simply Linkin Park mirrored and shortened. I was wearing their tshirt when brushing teeth back in 2007 (when they were my entire personality)
and thought "NiKr, that's a nice short nickname that's directly related to what I love". So I started using it.

That's it.

@Vaknar dunno when you'll read this (hopefully after Saab does), but I'd like you to delete this entire off-topic convo, cause it has derailed the thread far enough.

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

If you didn't miss with at least 30% MP-worth of skills that you threw at me, I didn't have enough Evasion yet.

I forget if I've asked this before but, did FF11's evasion let you evade spells as well? I assume BDO's does, right? Cause it seems like people are hitting each other with some magic stuff in those evasion build videos.

You cannot use your Evasion stat against damaging magical spells in FF11, but you can use elemental defenses against the element of the spell to drastically reduce the damage, which is something that does not exist in BDO (BDO has no actual elemental damage or defenses of any kind, last I played, all spell 'elements' are just for flavor entirely, like many Modern Style direct combat games).

There is a common way to evade single target magical spells of all kinds in FFXI, but AoE spells ignore it (and dispel it), and it's specific to Ninjas (the other version, available to more mages, is a coinflip basically.

Basically any Evasion stuff I discuss is about the simpler styled Modern games, in which one can use it in the way it's used in BDO. Games that combine 'accessibility' (lower depth) with Evasion build options are the thing where I get to make people 'waste energy' like that.

PherPhur

Mag7spy wrote: »

I got no issues and agree with his point on increasing the skill ceiling. You have defensive skills meaning that your skill level can let you survive longer , and still be able to survive for 30 seconds (depending on class).

Honestly not unexpected at all, I don't know how people think attacking someone for 60 seconds as the average base line is going to fly in modern games lol (average and high end are not the same).

It'll fly because that will hardly ever be the case. My guess is that there will be very very little open world PvP aside from Caravans and the Open Ocean.

And the PvP that will exist aside from those things will often times just be a grief kill, in which case people will really enjoy a high TTK.

Okay, so that being said, because most PvP will be done with several people(Caravans and OO), the actual TTK will be much less. Honestly I think 60 sec is too little, it should be more like 1.5 to 2 minutes accounting for potions, self heals, stuns, ect.

Which will not just actually encourage coordinated strikes(they're usually advantageous, not incentivized), but give people time to try and run if they do get a coordinated strike on them, or healed up instead of literally group one shot by a few people attacking simultaneously.

FFS Paladins, a high speed, competitive(formerly e-sports), and relatively simple(in relative comparison to an MMO) game still had longer TTK than 30 seconds often times. But it feels like 10 seconds, because time flies when you're having fun.

Mag7spy

PherPhur wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

I got no issues and agree with his point on increasing the skill ceiling. You have defensive skills meaning that your skill level can let you survive longer , and still be able to survive for 30 seconds (depending on class).

Honestly not unexpected at all, I don't know how people think attacking someone for 60 seconds as the average base line is going to fly in modern games lol (average and high end are not the same).

It'll fly because that will hardly ever be the case. My guess is that there will be very very little open world PvP aside from Caravans and the Open Ocean.

And the PvP that will exist aside from those things will often times just be a grief kill, in which case people will really enjoy a high TTK.

Okay, so that being said, because most PvP will be done with several people(Caravans and OO), the actual TTK will be much less. Honestly I think 60 sec is too little, it should be more like 1.5 to 2 minutes accounting for potions, self heals, stuns, ect.

Which will not just actually encourage coordinated strikes(they're usually advantageous, not incentivized), but give people time to try and run if they do get a coordinated strike on them, or healed up instead of literally group one shot by a few people attacking simultaneously.

FFS Paladins, a high speed, competitive(formerly e-sports), and relatively simple(in relative comparison to an MMO) game still had longer TTK than 30 seconds often times. But it feels like 10 seconds, because time flies when you're having fun.

2 min ttk what did i just read?

very little open world PvP aside from Caravans and the Open Ocean.

I keep telling people there is going to be a lot of pvp in this game. They really need to drive that home in the next showcase so peoples perceptions will be fixed. I feel we are getting more and more pvers that have never played a pvx / pvp mmorpg with the rule sets.

Corruption is not meant to offer much pvp, it is suppose to be very minimal for a reason. Main pvp will come from node / guilds wars and other elements. If you have an idea there won't be much pvp because of corruption you are ignoring all other OWpvp systems in the game.

Aszkalon

Azherae wrote: »

It's the characters that are fighting, though,

I ... ... knooow ? ^.^;"

If someone heals himself up or so, of Course it takes longer for someone else to kill his Character.

Azherae

Aszkalon wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

It's the characters that are fighting, though,

I ... ... knooow ? ^.^;"

If someone heals himself up or so, of Course it takes longer for someone else to kill his Character.

That's not what I'm talking about though? I really do mean just the Evasion stat, or any 'automatic stance that triggers after taking a certain amount of damage'.

We were talking at the start of this thread about the fact that a really high evasion build in BDO vs someone without enough Accuracy could go stop moving to go AFK, get sneaked up on, and still not die before the person got back (that's not what actually happens in BDO exactly because there is a thing that will automatically use a small healing item for you, but that item is used once every 2-6 seconds depending on some factors)

Depraved

PherPhur wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

I got no issues and agree with his point on increasing the skill ceiling. You have defensive skills meaning that your skill level can let you survive longer , and still be able to survive for 30 seconds (depending on class).

Honestly not unexpected at all, I don't know how people think attacking someone for 60 seconds as the average base line is going to fly in modern games lol (average and high end are not the same).

It'll fly because that will hardly ever be the case. My guess is that there will be very very little open world PvP aside from Caravans and the Open Ocean.

And the PvP that will exist aside from those things will often times just be a grief kill, in which case people will really enjoy a high TTK.

Okay, so that being said, because most PvP will be done with several people(Caravans and OO), the actual TTK will be much less. Honestly I think 60 sec is too little, it should be more like 1.5 to 2 minutes accounting for potions, self heals, stuns, ect.

Which will not just actually encourage coordinated strikes(they're usually advantageous, not incentivized), but give people time to try and run if they do get a coordinated strike on them, or healed up instead of literally group one shot by a few people attacking simultaneously.

FFS Paladins, a high speed, competitive(formerly e-sports), and relatively simple(in relative comparison to an MMO) game still had longer TTK than 30 seconds often times. But it feels like 10 seconds, because time flies when you're having fun.

there is going to be a lot of open world PVP, especially for farming spots and bosses.

Spif

Given that in a lot of games, the goal of high DPS builds is to global (kill within 1.0 or 1.5 s) someone, or kill them within a stunlock (3-5s), I'd say that 10s TTK on a glass canon by another glass canon is going to feel pretty slow.

On top of that, this game will have active defense abilities for all classes. I hope that will include i-frames during dodge (although we have not seen that yet) as well as parry/block.

i-frames in particular are good for avoiding being focused down, giving you a 0.5 to 1.0 second immunity to damage, allowing for heals/blocking/positioning/etc. They just need to be a limited option

Saabynator

Spif wrote: »

Given that in a lot of games, the goal of high DPS builds is to global (kill within 1.0 or 1.5 s) someone, or kill them within a stunlock (3-5s), I'd say that 10s TTK on a glass canon by another glass canon is going to feel pretty slow.

On top of that, this game will have active defense abilities for all classes. I hope that will include i-frames during dodge (although we have not seen that yet) as well as parry/block.

i-frames in particular are good for avoiding being focused down, giving you a 0.5 to 1.0 second immunity to damage, allowing for heals/blocking/positioning/etc. They just need to be a limited option

10-15 seconds is a long time, when your PvPing 1v1. It feels like a long time to me too. But 1-2 secs or within a stunlock, thats to quick. But there is probably ways to get it higher or lower, when the game comes out and you figure out specs. Also, you can hide behind objects in this game too.

unknown

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Summpwner

@Azherae Can't imagine encountering anything more annoying or useless than a character who can't be hit, but also probably can't do any damage because he didn't put any stats into anything but evasion. The only scenario that I can think of is a flag-running objective, but I assume that you are not imagining this character to ALSO be CC immune. This would cause a soft-lock, and would likely get patched out immediately due to awful game design.

Azherae

Summpwner wrote: »

@Azherae Can't imagine encountering anything more annoying or useless than a character who can't be hit, but also probably can't do any damage because he didn't put any stats into anything but evasion. The only scenario that I can think of is a flag-running objective, but I assume that you are not imagining this character to ALSO be CC immune. This would cause a soft-lock, and would likely get patched out immediately due to awful game design.

Character would be a healer, more of a decoy.

Or a Tank, whose abilities are mostly certainly not going to be very statistic heavy, because the Evasion is the required mitigation.

The character really doesn't need to reach 'not be hit' though, in Ashes. Since so much damage comes from skills, if skills can be evaded, the character only needs to 'soak up a lot of enemy Mana', which is just a matter of getting enough Evasion for RNG to take care of the rest, and knowing which enemy specced for Accuracy.

Dimitraeos

Coming from a game like BDO (TTK was literally 1-2s if you got caught in a CC), 10-15s TTK feels like an eternity and that's not a bad thing.

I actually don't think people realize how long that actually is.

Also, assuming this means 10-15s without much input and just standing there getting wailed on, in reality, it will be longer.

If TTK is too long as well, it feels a bit like a slog.

Garrtok

The ttk in the stream was much too long and most spells not impactful enough

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