Battlepass in MMOs

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

There isn't a feature to replace BP, the point of battle pass is to make additional money / have people more committed to the game. Any feature can be used on top of battlepass.

BP just gives rewards. That's the only thing that "keeps people more committed". If you move those rewards to tasks or quests - people will "committed" in the same way, because the rewards are the same.

Mag7spy wrote: »

You literally DO NOT NEED to buy the battle pass and ignore it. It has 0 impact on your gameplay and experience. If you don't like it in a mmorpg do not do it, it is that simple. A battlepass in a mmorpg will not be chore like you can also ignore dally task and play the game and any element you do gets you XP. (Even though you are going to have daily task in AoC with or without battle pass). Level up your characters, kill stuff, craft, etc would all give you xp to the battle pass without doing any kind of chore.

Dygz wrote: »

You just get different rewards on the BP - and the way those rewards are organized are different than in-game Quests and Bulletin Board Tasks. All three of those can overlap.
Eat Food 3/3 is a Battlepass Task. It's not work to complete that Task. And you're probably going to eat food three times during a play session anyway if you're playing.

So you both want people to get additional rewards for just doing random shit. Sounds like "everyone gets a reward" to me. And this kind of reward would probably be kinda shitty as well, cause otherwise there's no point in buying the premium BP.

And then if BP is "just leveling up on its own", then how is it "keeping people playing" if they were already doing their own gameplay. And even if it does influence those players, this simply means that they care about the rewards, so why wouldn't the same rewards in other systems keep those players playing?

And as for "just don't do it" (cause you both have brought it up at some point) - I want to play the game to its fullest. I'm gonna do all quests. I'm gonna play all classes. I'm gonna interact with all npcs. Etc etc. Judging by how Intrepid have been designing stuff so far, I'd assume that even cosmetics will have lore tied to them, so I'd want to learn/experience that lore as well, because it's a part of the game.

This is why I want those items to be tied to in-game activities, rather than a random UI window, that might even be outside of the game. And when I see a buyable cosmetic item that I wanna get - I want to just buy it, instead of grinding for days just to get the BP levels for it.

This is why I keep saying that directly selling cosmetics would make Intrepid more money, especially if they price their stuff well enough. Cause if even I am willing to buy cosmetics, then a TON of other people will definitely buy them.

Unsure why are you talking about task when i didn't mention that about commitment, That is irrelevant to the bp with what I'm talking about. You don't get rewards from a bp from doing quest, all actions give you xp to increase BP levels which than gives you rewards. (I'm feeling like you are trying to use a very particular BP example that most likely is made in a gotcha way. And using that as reference for your example which would be a pretty bad take and no one knowing what you are talking about assuming we are talking about what you are. When you should be going based off what we are talking about with a BP which is normal and not gotcha level

Nikr you are clearly not understanding a BP, this is how bp works. YOU playingt he game you get levels on your battle pass and than your get the items. Honestly what the hell are you talking about, you honestly are bringing up something that is clearly not the general BP almost all games use....

Can we not muddy the conversation and just use a general BP, i don't want this post bloated with random confusing elements.

Use the Destiny BP as an example, all content you do in the game gives you xp for it (you can add onto it having daily and weekly things that give bonus xp)

Nikr saying you want to do everything isn't relevant to a bp, you don't get new quest or anything special from it. You aren't getting new content from a battle pass, ignoring it doesn't change anything. If you are trying to make a argument that "I want to do everything" And you are including the battle pass saying do 5 board missions as you aren't doing everything, its a pretty silly take. Ignoring a daily from a BP doesn't mean you aren't playing the game to the fullest.... you are reaching to make up a argument.

Again you can have both systems buying cosmetics (which the game is obviously going to have) and a BP. Fail to see any issue as all this has 0 impact on you. You are making up thin air and refusing to be reasonable. No p2w, not forced to play the game different, can pick the monetization you want to support or ignore it all together with any effect to you.

bloodprophet

Dygz wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

I don't understand the compulsion to say "This other company is abusing me. I expect, no DEMAND the next now abuse me as well."

Are you equating Battlepasses with abuse?

Yes. Stop accepting bad behavior from companies.

bloodprophet wrote: »

What value would be added to Intrepid if they added a BP?
What value would be added to Ashes if they added a BP?

Provides players with organized stuff to do without needing to write dialogue or mess around with NPCs.
Also provides the same monetary value as a Cosmetics Market.

If it adds nothing different then what you get from the cosmetics market then whats the point? From the game studio's point of view other then the cost of people to set it up and keep it going.

bloodprophet wrote: »

What value would be added to the customers if they added a BP?
Provides players with organized stuff to do - differently than Quests and Bulletin Board Tasks.
And offers some new story and new in game content - in addition to new Cosmetics.

What are the rewards for this "new" content? Any XP items or in game currency players receive that other players not engaged in the BP would be P2W. If people have to pay to access the BP.

You need to decide:
This "Provides players with organized stuff to do without needing to write dialogue or mess around with NPCs."
or this: "offers some new story and new in game content."

bloodprophet wrote: »

If they add anything that gives XP to your characters or any kind of in game item other them cosmetics that seems like P2W.

Yep. But Battlepasses don't have to be P2W to be of value in an MMORPG.

Never said they had to be that was why I was asking the questions.
If they only add cost to the studio in the form of people's time to set up and keep going and it gives nothing more then what you get in the market. Whats the point?

NiKr wrote: »

Increasing lvls is not the same as "I want this cosmetic so I buy it". Items of the day is also fomo, unless they're on a repeating cycle, but then why even have that feature.

This is the god damn reason we're in the shithole of a corporate industry. Everyone is fucking ok with getting fucked over. And not only that, but everyone believes the direct lies that "all of this is for the good of the consuumer!"

Modern Battlepasses do not have "items of the day".
Modern Battlepasses have Seasonal items.
I don't think the WoW Season Pass has much fomo - you'd basically have to not play for the entire Season to have any fomo. The Fortnite Battlepass could be completed in about 3 weeks of play out of 3 months for the Battlepass.

The WoW Battlepass - you do get Cosmetics Coins and you buy the items you want. I think they are available for 2-3 months.
The Fortnite and NW Battlepass are on Paths. You gain points as you play and those points send you down the path to acquire new rewards.
There are no "items of the day".

Again, you are just making things up in your own head that have no basis in reality and then letting that trigger you as if it's true.
There's nothiing close to "getting fucked over".

Mag7spy wrote: »

Nikr you are clearly not understanding a BP, this is how bp works. YOU playingt he game you get levels on your battle pass and than your get the items. Honestly what the hell are you talking about, you honestly are bringing up something that is clearly not the general BP almost all games use....

This is literally the kind of BP I'm talking about. The ones you and Dygz describe. Which is why I said "if the BP is simply leveling up from anything you do - how in the fucking hell is it keeping you in the game MORE than the things you're doing are already doing"?

Both you and Dygz have said that BPs keep people in the game. But you both say that BPs level up from random activities that players already do. This means that the only thing in the BP that matters is the reward. And I'm saying that this reward can be moves to several other systems, instead of having it in the BP.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Nikr saying you want to do everything isn't relevant to a bp, you don't get new quest or anything special from it. You aren't getting new content from a battle pass, ignoring it doesn't change anything. If you are trying to make a argument that "I want to do everything" And you are including the battle pass saying do 5 board missions as you aren't doing everything, its a pretty silly take. Ignoring a daily from a BP doesn't mean you aren't playing the game to the fullest.... you are reaching to make up a argument.

I literally said "I want to get the items from the BP because they might be related to lore, and I want to know that lore".

Mags, please read my comments fully.

Dygz wrote: »

There are no "items of the day".

Again, you are just making things up in your own head that have no basis in reality and then letting that trigger you as if it's true.
There's nothiing close to "getting fucked over".

I was not the one who brought up the "item of the day", so go argue with Mag about that, cause even though you're both on the BP side - it's super obvious that you both have wildly different concepts for how a BP works, even though it might seem that you're talking about the same one.

Also, seasonal BPs are still fomo

NiKr wrote: »

And how would directly selling cosmetics not make use of whales? If anything, directly selling expensive cosmetics is a way better method of attracting whales, cause everyone would know immediately that you spent big money on that cosmetic, rather than just think that you participated in the BP in the past.

BPs go directly against exploiting whales. They simply trick poor people into thinking that BPs are worth the effort and the money.

Well, there's not much effort. There is more focused gameplay. And that is not a bad thing.
I spend way more money in the LEGO Fortnite Shop than I do for the Battlepass - almost 10x.
The LEGO Fortnite Battlepass saves me money.
I really don't spend any money in NW. I might buy something from the Cosmetic Store twice a year. And I play the free path for the Battlepass.
In WOW, I did not pay for the Battlepass. And it's possible to earn a free Battlepass just by playing the game.

I don't really care who might have spent big money on Cosmetics, so I have no skin in that game. Pardon the pun.

NiKr wrote: »

Cause if you think that the BP will be the only way to get cosmetics with irl money - to me that sounds like Intrepid would've kinda lied that we'll be able to purchase cosmetics with them.

Why would we not be able to use Embers to purchase the premium/paid Battlepass path??

Dygz wrote: »

Pardon the pun.

I shall not pardon it, cause I love puns

Dygz wrote: »

Why would we not be able to use Embers to purchase the premium/paid Battlepass path??

I already addressed how I see "BP vs direct purchase", so you'll get across that in another comment.

I mean.... but so far... you always see BP incorrectly.

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Nikr you are clearly not understanding a BP, this is how bp works. YOU playingt he game you get levels on your battle pass and than your get the items. Honestly what the hell are you talking about, you honestly are bringing up something that is clearly not the general BP almost all games use....

This is literally the kind of BP I'm talking about. The ones you and Dygz describe. Which is why I said "if the BP is simply leveling up from anything you do - how in the fucking hell is it keeping you in the game MORE than the things you're doing are already doing"?

Both you and Dygz have said that BPs keep people in the game. But you both say that BPs level up from random activities that players already do. This means that the only thing in the BP that matters is the reward. And I'm saying that this reward can be moves to several other systems, instead of having it in the BP.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Nikr saying you want to do everything isn't relevant to a bp, you don't get new quest or anything special from it. You aren't getting new content from a battle pass, ignoring it doesn't change anything. If you are trying to make a argument that "I want to do everything" And you are including the battle pass saying do 5 board missions as you aren't doing everything, its a pretty silly take. Ignoring a daily from a BP doesn't mean you aren't playing the game to the fullest.... you are reaching to make up a argument.

I literally said "I want to get the items from the BP because they might be related to lore, and I want to know that lore".

Mags, please read my comments fully.

Dygz wrote: »

There are no "items of the day".

Again, you are just making things up in your own head that have no basis in reality and then letting that trigger you as if it's true.
There's nothiing close to "getting fucked over".

I was not the one who brought up the "item of the day", so go argue with Mag about that, cause even though you're both on the BP side - it's super obvious that you both have wildly different concepts for how a BP works, even though it might seem that you're talking about the same one.

Also, seasonal BPs are still fomo

Yes because you still need to level it up and paly the game to get the rewards. Why would they move it to other systems when the point is to create a cheaper option for people to play the game and get cosmetics so they can make MONEY. You tried to make a point you just wanted to buy one thing for a dollar in your earlier post lol? Point is people know its there every month and they can earn the rewards as they play and buying it for a cheaper price.

You can use the same argument abut anything on the market than, you want to get the market items because they could be related to the lore. You just need to buy the items while they cycle on the market or every item on it for 5000$. This isn't a argument you are making things up and saying all these items are lore related, rather than just cool outfits people can buy (like every other bp). Lore related stuff is going to be earned in game with anything that is relevant.

Azherae

The purpose of a BP is to be the carrot on the stick for those who need it, so improving the ingame content isn't as effective.

It's better than dailies for that player type, because it's more varied. It's explicitly for 'people who don't generate their own impetus'.

The main reason Ashes wouldn't need one, would be that players would get their 'daily quests' from their Guild Leaders and Node managers, so a Battlepass is a substitute for that leadership structure, for those who don't have such a person yet.

Also Intrepid doesn't pay quite that much (even considering their payroll tax requirements/contributions and such), so their requirements for profitability are less.

Azherae wrote: »

their own impetus.

I'm impetusing myself too hard to understand Mag's and Dygz' position

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

their own impetus.

I'm impetusing myself too hard to understand Mag's and Dygz' position

That is, in fact, the exact reason. I can call some team members who don't generally manage on their own very well, since it's Friday, but forums are a slog for them, ofc, so if you don't really need it...

Azherae wrote: »

so if you don't really need it...

Nah, don't bother them. I've said my piece several times already. Obviously neither side of the conversation will understand each other, so why pull even more people into a misunderstanding.

NiKr wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

so if you don't really need it...

Nah, don't bother them. I've said my piece several times already. Obviously neither side of the conversation will understand each other, so why pull even more people into a misunderstanding.

Issue is what we are talking bout has 0 impact on you as there is no p2w. That is the part you refuse to understand..

Mag7spy wrote: »

Issue is what we are talking bout has 0 impact on you as there is no p2w. That is the part you refuse to understand..

Sure, Mag, sure.

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Issue is what we are talking bout has 0 impact on you as there is no p2w. That is the part you refuse to understand..

Sure, Mag, sure.

You know its true that is why you don't have an argument for it.

Azherae wrote: »

The purpose of a BP is to be the carrot on the stick for those who need it, so improving the ingame content isn't as effective.

It's better than dailies for that player type, because it's more varied. It's explicitly for 'people who don't generate their own impetus'.

Typically, for people who play for the story and aren't going to play until there is more story/Quests and new content.
It's also a fun way to earn Cosmetics. Which is why I expect to see it as the form of the Cosmetics Market in Ashes.

Azherae wrote: »

The main reason Ashes wouldn't need one, would be that players would get their 'daily quests' from their Guild Leaders and Node managers, so a Battlepass is a substitute for that leadership structure, for those who don't have such a person yet.

Ashes doesn't need a Battlepass. I expect the Cosmetics Market will be in the form of a Battlepass.
(I would not allow a guild leader to dictate what I'm going to do during my play sessions.)

Azherae wrote: »

Also Intrepid doesn't pay quite that much (even considering their payroll tax requirements/contributions and such), so their requirements for profitability are less.

Ashes will have a Cosmetics Market. I expect the form of the Cosmetics Maret will be a Battlepass.

Roelath

Battlepasses are truly meant for the unfocused modern gamer. Being told how to have fun and what to try differently. Not only is it a cheap and lazy tactic by corporate shareholders to increase their stock value with minimal effort it's insulting for a MMORPG to have an external system of what to do. There is a reason tutorial quests exist and the rest is left up to the player to decide how they play. It's antithetical to the MMORPG genre to have BPs.

Mag7spy wrote: »

You know its true that is why you don't have an argument for it.

Arguing what I find impactful on MY gameplay is even sillier than trying to explain to you my point. But I'm sure you know better than ME what I find impactful.

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

You know its true that is why you don't have an argument for it.

Arguing what I find impactful on MY gameplay is even sillier than trying to explain to you my point. But I'm sure you know better than ME what I find impactful.

Battlepass doesn't impact your gameplay that is why you don't have an argument lmao.