Battlepass in MMOs

State your opinion, I'll start with mine

They're dumb they are meant for repetitive games like shooters, they give you something to do in a games that are arena pvp weather it be a MOBA or Shooter. MMOs are supposed to keep you busy. adding chores on top of that for things I should just be able to work for tends to leave a bad taste in mouth.

Also the monetization of it is kind of dumb as well. FFXIV and WoW have raked in large amounts of money just doing cosmetics on the shop, do that without the predatory fear of missing out.

One other argument for me was when I was playing NW I wanted to support the game, I bought up dyes and emotes and spent more money on that game then I have any other game as far as cosmetics, I supported it because it was simple and clean way for them to make extra money. I stopped giving them my money after they started doing the battlepass. It even made me not care about collecting all the emotes anymore. It wasn't even to protest, I just stopped caring.

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Individuated Soul

Laetitian wrote: »

Actual footage of themepark/gachs/cosmetics-collector players encouraging begging daddy corporate to suck out their souls and feed them back a portion as a reward. Thoroughly brainwashed.

*Swallows dailies checklist* Yes, daddy, feed me more 'content'. Whatever would I do with my time if I didn't have daddy to hold my leash and buy me pretty dresses when I've been a good girl??

(I won't ever be able to make this statement free of stereotypes.
I just don't get what needs to have happened in someone's life that leads them to actively advocate for brainrot battlepass menus. I doubt it can be a good thing.)

This thread should've been over after this post.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Battlepass doesn't impact your gameplay that is why you don't have an argument lmao.

Ah, you see, I was correct. You most definitely know better than me what I find impactful or not. Depraved got a ton to learn from you in terms of mindreading.

Has nothing to do with mind reading and how BP work. You are trying to argue on what BP are not. This is why you don't have a point you are making up your own argument / story.

Dygz

Roelath wrote: »

Battlepasses are truly meant for the unfocused modern gamer. Being told how to have fun and what to try differently. Not only is it a cheap and lazy tactic by corporate shareholders to increase their stock value with minimal effort it's insulting for a MMORPG to have an external system of what to do.

I'm Chaotic Good, rather than Lawful Good.
So, yep... I will cop to being chaotic rather than focused.
Battlepasses don't really tell me how to have fun, but they do give me rewards I like for doing a bunch of stuff in the game and adding a bit of extra story.

It's not cheap and lazy. It's quicker and easier to implement than dropping new Quests and dialogue and NPC behaviours for those Quests.
How is it insulting to drop in new story, new content and new items more quickly than a full Expansion?

Roelath wrote: »

There is a reason tutorial quests exist and the rest is left up to the player to decide how they play. It's antithetical to the MMORPG genre to have BPs.

What? Why did you mention Tutorial Quests??
I still decide what which Tasks I'm going to do on any given day. I do the Tasks I like and ignore the Tasks that I don't like (like PvP) or seem like they would take too long compared to the other stuff I want to do during my play session.

Roelath

Dygz wrote: »

Roelath wrote: »

Battlepasses are truly meant for the unfocused modern gamer. Being told how to have fun and what to try differently. Not only is it a cheap and lazy tactic by corporate shareholders to increase their stock value with minimal effort it's insulting for a MMORPG to have an external system of what to do.

I'm Chaotic Good, rather than Lawful Good.
So, yep... I will cop to being chaotic rather than focused.
Battlepasses don't really tell me how to have fun, but they do give me rewards I like for doing a bunch of stuff in the game and adding a bit of extra story.

It's not cheap and lazy. It's quicker and easier to implement than dropping new Quests and dialogue and NPC behaviours for those Quests.
How is it insulting to drop in new story, new content and new items more quickly than a full Expansion?

Roelath wrote: »

There is a reason tutorial quests exist and the rest is left up to the player to decide how they play. It's antithetical to the MMORPG genre to have BPs.

What? Why did you mention Tutorial Quests??
I still decide what which Tasks I'm going to do on any given day. I do the Tasks I like and ignore the Tasks that I don't like (like PvP) or seem like they would take too long compared to the other stuff I want to do during my play session.

If you want rewards go play the game. You don't need an external system to kill twenty of X, level Y five times, and explore Z zone. If it's all about having some reward based system for doing something that isn't story driven to the MMO it doesn't belong at all.

Is it lazy? Yes, because you only need to create a number of arbitrary tasks and rotate them. There is no story related to why you're killing bears beyond "I want pretty thing in battlepass!!" as drool falls from your agape mouth.

Is it cheap? Yes, because you can reuse the same arbitrary quests and only need to display a text box tracker. There is no story, no dialogue, and no positioning of a NPC within the world. A cheap gimmick to get people to buy a product that should already be in the game in the form of quests and zone based scenarios from events.

BPs are just the corporate means to make cheap content for a quick buck that has zero meaning to the overarching story and have fools parted with their money.

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

Arguing what I find impactful on MY gameplay is even sillier than trying to explain to you my point. But I'm sure you know better than ME what I find impactful.

I mean, I hope we're just sharing perspectives rather than arguing...
How does a Battlepass negatively impact your gameplay?
You earn points for the stuff you're already doing. You can also earn some points from doing stuff you're weren't originally planning to do (especially if doing a handful takes less than a total of 10-15 minutes).

The new Fortnite Battlepass dropped this morning.
The theme of the Battlepass is Mad Max + Fallout.
There is a new story Chapter in Fortnite - along with new locations and new gear and items and characters.
But that's in the Battle Royale - and of course I'm not really interested in PvP.

LEGO Fortnite did not get much of an update but we did get a new character dressed like she's in Mad Max.
We also got a new, front fortress gate in the style of Mad Max.
I spent about 15 minutes traveling around to find a spot where I wanted to build a Mad Max style base.
I spent around 10 minutes building the Mad Max gate.
I spent another 20 minutes fiddling around with how I want to place the floors behind the gate. And then I stopped so I could go to work.
At the end of 45 minutes, I was Level 5 on the free Battlepass path. And I haven't even looked to see what any of the Tasks are yet. It just happens to be that the stuff I wanted to do gave me enough points to move me to Level 5/200 on the free path.

All of that is win/win.
I don't see how any of that has a negative impact on my gameplay - nor how it fucks me over.
That enhanced my gameplay.

bloodprophet

All that dev time could have been invested in improving the the game vs spending it so you could charge people extra money for the content.

Mag7spy

bloodprophet wrote: »

All that dev time could have been invested in improving the the game vs spending it so you could charge people extra money for the content.

This has nothing to do with BP and just your dislike of the market place as a whole. Just don't support the market place if you feel its not worth investing into the game.

Dygz

Roelath wrote: »

If you want rewards go play the game. You don't need an external system to kill twenty of X, level Y five times, and explore Z zone. If it's all about having some reward based system for doing something that isn't story driven to the MMO it doesn't belong at all.

Um. The Battlepass gives me rewards for playing the game. It just gives different rewards than what's offered in game. Rewards that are more fitting for players interested in the story and Casual play rather than BiS gear progression.

Roelath wrote: »

Is it lazy? Yes, because you only need to create a number of arbitrary tasks and rotate them. There is no story related to why you're killing bears beyond "I want pretty thing in battlepass!!" as drool falls from your agape mouth.

I mean... there is also new story and new items. Again, quicker and easier than it takes to implement a full expansion is not lazy. It's just quicker and easier.
There can be a bit of a story reason for why you might be killing whatever stuff you're killing because Battlepasses typically come with Seasonal content and a bit of new, dev-curated story. The Battlepass will give you BP XP (or Cosmetic Coins) in addition to the Adventurer XP and power items you accrue as rewards for completing related Quests. Story can also be different if you're using an alt for the Battlepass stuff and/or if you are equpping the thematic Cosmetics.
It's just that the Battlepass rewards are not increasing your combat power.

Roelath wrote: »

Is it cheap? Yes, because you can reuse the same arbitrary quests and only need to display a text box tracker. There is no story, no dialogue, and no positioning of a NPC within the world. A cheap gimmick to get people to buy a product that should already be in the game in the form of quests and zone based scenarios from events.

Cheaper than a full expansion is not really the same thing as cheap.
There is some story overall - it's not really 0 story. There is no NPC dialogue associated with the Battlepass Tasks, sure. And no positioning of NPCs.
It's quicker and easier and cheaper than a full expansion. Sure. Nothing wrong with that. It's a good thing.

Roelath wrote: »

BPs are just the corporate means to make cheap content for a quick buck that has zero meaning to the overarching story and have fools parted with their money.

It's a quicker and easier way to drop new content and new story and new tasks into the game - on a quarterly basis, rather than having the players wait 12-18+ months for an expansion.
We agree.

bloodprophet

I don't care either way. The BP as you two are advocating for seems like the cosmetic market place with extra steps.
I don't understand, why not leave it simple?

Dygz

bloodprophet wrote: »

All that dev time could have been invested in improving the the game vs spending it so you could charge people extra money for the content.

All what dev time? Battlepasses improve the game. On a quarterly basis.
And doesn't take time away from anything else - especially when there is already going to be a Cosmetics Market.
Intrepid is already going to be charging more money for the content than a subscription.

bloodprophet

Magic.

I thought it took dev time to build and implement that stuff. If devs are focused on BP stuff they are not working on the stuff they could be working on.

"Intrepid is already going to be charging more money for the content than a subscription. "

Could you clarify this?

Dygz

bloodprophet wrote: »

I don't care either way. The BP as you two are advocating for seems like the cosmetic market place with extra steps.
I don't understand, why not leave it simple?

Because Battlepass is more fun than a simple Cosmetics Market.
More fun probably because it's another form of progression.

bloodprophet

Dygz wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

I don't care either way. The BP as you two are advocating for seems like the cosmetic market place with extra steps.
I don't understand, why not leave it simple?

Because Battlepass is more fun than a simple Cosmetics Market.
More fun probably because it's another form of progression.

Seems exhausting to me but we all have different tastes. I would rather have them build the game and open the doors with all content available to those that want to do it vs gating some behind an extra premium monthly fee.

Mag7spy

bloodprophet wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

I don't care either way. The BP as you two are advocating for seems like the cosmetic market place with extra steps.
I don't understand, why not leave it simple?

Because Battlepass is more fun than a simple Cosmetics Market.
More fun probably because it's another form of progression.

Seems exhausting to me but we all have different tastes. I would rather have them build the game and open the doors with all content available to those that want to do it vs gating some behind an extra premium monthly fee.

So you want everything free.

Dygz

Why is it exhausting to do stuff you're mostly going to be doing anyways and get some fun rewards for it?

I don't think Battlepasses gate content. Battlepasses gate Cosmetics rewards.
Typically you can do the free path of a Battlepass without paying for the premium path.
Even with the premium Battlepass path, it's tyoically signifcantly cheaper to acquire items via the Battlepass rather than purchasing them individually from the Cosmetics Store.

abc0815

Dygz wrote: »

Why is it exhausting to do stuff you're mostly going to be doing anyways and get some fun rewards for it?

I don't think Battlepasses gate content. Battlepasses gate Cosmetics rewards.
Typically you can do the free path of a Battlepass without paying for the premium path.
Even with the premium Battlepass path, it's tyoically signifcantly cheaper to acquire items via the Battlepass rather than purchasing them individually from the Cosmetics Store.

That is by design you know that right? The pseudo cheaper part. But yes more money will make the game more awesome. This is how it works /s

Dygz

Yep. But it’s not pseudo cheaper.
It’s cheaper.
It is that way by design.

There’s way too much stuff that I want to buy from the LEGO Fortnite Cosmetics Store. I could very easily spend $10+ every day. And even that would be trying to keep what I want to a minimum.
I probably average $100 a month.
And then there’s usually also some new characters I want from the free Battlepass.
Which would be another $120.

I only buy from the NW Cosmetics Store around 2 times per year. And I only do the free Battlepass path.

I might buy one thing per year from the WoW Cosmetics Store. Maybe 1 every two years.
And I’ve only played long enough to do the Season Pass once. And that was a free Season Pass.

But, yeah, both the Cosmetics Store and the Battlepass are going to be designed to entice players to spend some money.

Depraved

Dygz wrote: »

Roelath wrote: »

Battlepasses are truly meant for the unfocused modern gamer. Being told how to have fun and what to try differently. Not only is it a cheap and lazy tactic by corporate shareholders to increase their stock value with minimal effort it's insulting for a MMORPG to have an external system of what to do.

I'm Chaotic Good, rather than Lawful Good.
So, yep... I will cop to being chaotic rather than focused.
Battlepasses don't really tell me how to have fun, but they do give me rewards I like for doing a bunch of stuff in the game and adding a bit of extra story.

It's not cheap and lazy. It's quicker and easier to implement than dropping new Quests and dialogue and NPC behaviours for those Quests.
How is it insulting to drop in new story, new content and new items more quickly than a full Expansion?

Roelath wrote: »

There is a reason tutorial quests exist and the rest is left up to the player to decide how they play. It's antithetical to the MMORPG genre to have BPs.

What? Why did you mention Tutorial Quests??
I still decide what which Tasks I'm going to do on any given day. I do the Tasks I like and ignore the Tasks that I don't like (like PvP) or seem like they would take too long compared to the other stuff I want to do during my play session.

this is where you confuse me. are all your characters / lats chaotic good? so when you do something good for someone else in game, is it you or yourcharacter? and when you do something bad?

back to battle passes. you said you don't play for the rewards and you don't care about them (you play for the journey) but your reasoning for liking battle passes is the rewards? what? o-o

Depraved

bloodprophet wrote: »

Magic.

I thought it took dev time to build and implement that stuff. If devs are focused on BP stuff they are not working on the stuff they could be working on.

"Intrepid is already going to be charging more money for the content than a subscription. "

Could you clarify this?

nah they hire battle pass specialists whose only job is to make battlepasses. so other employees can still work in the rest of the game

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

All that dev time could have been invested in improving the the game vs spending it so you could charge people extra money for the content.

All what dev time? Battlepasses improve the game. On a quarterly basis.
And doesn't take time away from anything else - especially when there is already going to be a Cosmetics Market.
Intrepid is already going to be charging more money for the content than a subscription.

Battlepass with cosmetics does one of three things.

1, it takes developer time.
2, it takes additional developers, which just results in the above.
3, it uses cosmetics that would have ended up in the store without a battlepass, which again results in the first point.

Thus, the only way battlepass in Ashes makes sense is if people would pay more to get the same item via battlepass than via cosmetic shop.

I personally don't think enough people are that stupid.

I really hope they aren't.

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