Battlepass in MMOs

State your opinion, I'll start with mine

They're dumb they are meant for repetitive games like shooters, they give you something to do in a games that are arena pvp weather it be a MOBA or Shooter. MMOs are supposed to keep you busy. adding chores on top of that for things I should just be able to work for tends to leave a bad taste in mouth.

Also the monetization of it is kind of dumb as well. FFXIV and WoW have raked in large amounts of money just doing cosmetics on the shop, do that without the predatory fear of missing out.

One other argument for me was when I was playing NW I wanted to support the game, I bought up dyes and emotes and spent more money on that game then I have any other game as far as cosmetics, I supported it because it was simple and clean way for them to make extra money. I stopped giving them my money after they started doing the battlepass. It even made me not care about collecting all the emotes anymore. It wasn't even to protest, I just stopped caring.

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Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

The difference is do you want to pay full price and get the item(s) immediately

I expect the direct purchase cosmetics to be available to me as soon as I press "buy" in the store. Obviously they'll require whichever in-game item I can put them on, but that doesn't concern me, because I wasn't purchasing the item, I was buying the cosmetic.

When I purchased the pre-order bundle, it came with a cosmetic. I expect that cosmetic to be available to me as soon as the game releases, not after 100h of playing it.

And I expect direct purchase store to work the same way. And I want players to have an option to buy BP's cosmetics in the direct purchase stores, because those cosmetics are not discounted, they're simply a cheaper product.

Mag7spy

Endowed wrote: »

Add actual game content that provides the same results.
It's why it's an mmorpg.
Battlepass is for surface skimming games. Imho.

Then just make the point you don't want a market place to monetize you. And convince IS they only need a sub fee with no marketplace.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

So you just want everything to be dirt cheap that is not going to be the case. Them being better doesn't mean you can buy skins for 1 dollar you are just pushing Next it will be everything should be free so they are better lol.. Granted we don't know what they are doing exactly but it will be fine based on what I've seen and heard so far and they are already better than the market imo.

Mag, I see your likes on Dygz' comments, so I assume that you've read my other posts.

I've stated several damn times, I want the direct purchase store to have both high cost cosmetics and super cheap ones. Those super cheap cosmetics are literally the same thing as getting them from a paid BP, except you don't need to grind the game for 40 fucking hours more than you had planned to.

There will inevitably be difference between BP cosmetics and the direct purchase ones, because that's what the price dictates. I simply want the option to buy the BP shit directly, instead of it being gated behind playing the game.

Actually you do that is the cost of the item. You will have things to buy on the market and sometimes they will be on sale. On top of a battle pass if they choose to add it in.

If you don't want to play the game or think you aren't going to casually be playing the game to be able to earn it, don't play.

You really really ignoring dygz point about the causal level he expects the battle pass to be (if you are doing weekly and daily task) To make it very minimum level task. Meaning if you play 3 times a week you will be able to finish the BP if you play 3 hours a day or less.

Also you aren't grinding the game doing battlepass i really feel you don't understand how easy it is. If you have a task to craft any item and you make any item pretty easy 0 grinding required.

At the end of the day if playing the game is too much for someone (which seems to be the argument you are making) don't buy the battle pass and don't play the game lmao. If you don't want to go to a area, craft a item, kill mobs, do a board quest, or just play the game however you want and get general xp for the battle pass from that. Seriously just don't play the game, like when you are are the point where you can finish a battlepass by playing he game however you want and getting xp from everything and say you don't want to do that. That means you just don't want to play the game. So don't play it.

Aoc will have lots gated behind playing the game which also includes being able to even use the cosmetics you buy. Its not exactly a strong argument. So now we are going backwards from before about needing to earn it in game and just wanting handouts in a sense.

Edit* What also makes 0 sense which contradicts yourself is you say you want to be able to earn it in game by playing. But at the same time you are saying you don't want to need to play or "grind" (which u do not really grind in a battlepass like that) to get the item.

Even ignoring the fact you say earn in game (so want the item to be free now?) and have some convoluted quest system doing a bunch of bs to get the item. Over just leveling a battle pass (which is brain dead easy) and getting the item. Both require you to play the game...

Endowed

Dygz wrote: »

Endowed wrote: »

Add actual game content that provides the same results.
It's why it's an mmorpg.
Battlepass is for surface skimming games. Imho.

People will play through the new content more quickly than they can finish a Battlepass.

Not if they make all the battlepass stuff as rewards from in-game content. Instead.

Im okay with it -- its like getting quests/chores from your email or phone app.
But its really poor content design for an MMORPG. Which has a persistent world to utilize.

The BP format is horrible, not the "dos" and "rewards".

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

You really really ignoring dygz point about the causal level he expects the battle pass to be (if you are doing weekly and daily task)

Except you're missing his entire point about not needed to do dailies or weeklies

And I already said, the 100h in 3 months is only casual if the person can play every day, which for quite a lot of people is not casual enough.

Mag7spy wrote: »

At the end of the day if playing the game is too much for someone don't buy the battle pass and don't play the game lmao.

So your entire argument so far has been "BPs make Intrepid more money", but now you're telling a person who's willing to upkeep the sub and purchase cosmetics to "not play the game". You're literally ok with denying Intrepid money, just so you can keep saying that BPs are worth it, even though there's a much better way to make that money.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Edit* What also makes 0 sense which contradicts yourself is you say you want to be able to earn it in game by playing. But at the same time you are saying you don't want to need to play or "grind" (which u do not really grind in a battlepass like that) to get the item.

In-game achievables are paid for by the sub. Purchasable items should be given to the player immediately and directly, because that's what they're paying the extra money for.

And as you literally said before yourself, cosmetics will still require that person to play the game, because they'll need the item to apply the cosmetic to, so gameplay doesn't go away anywhere.

I simply want people to have a second option of purchasing the cheap BP cosmetics.

Endowed

Mag7spy wrote: »

Endowed wrote: »

Add actual game content that provides the same results.
It's why it's an mmorpg.
Battlepass is for surface skimming games. Imho.

Then just make the point you don't want a market place to monetize you. And convince IS they only need a sub fee with no marketplace.

Not sure what you are saying. Or trying to get me to say.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

You really really ignoring dygz point about the causal level he expects the battle pass to be (if you are doing weekly and daily task)

Except you're missing his entire point about not needed to do dailies or weeklies

And I already said, the 100h in 3 months is only casual if the person can play every day, which for quite a lot of people is not casual enough.

Mag7spy wrote: »

At the end of the day if playing the game is too much for someone don't buy the battle pass and don't play the game lmao.

So your entire argument so far has been "BPs make Intrepid more money", but now you're telling a person who's willing to upkeep the sub and purchase cosmetics to "not play the game". You're literally ok with denying Intrepid money, just so you can keep saying that BPs are worth it, even though there's a much better way to make that money.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Edit* What also makes 0 sense which contradicts yourself is you say you want to be able to earn it in game by playing. But at the same time you are saying you don't want to need to play or "grind" (which u do not really grind in a battlepass like that) to get the item.

In-game achievables are paid for by the sub. Purchasable items should be given to the player immediately and directly, because that's what they're paying the extra money for.

And as you literally said before yourself, cosmetics will still require that person to play the game, because they'll need the item to apply the cosmetic to, so gameplay doesn't go away anywhere.

I simply want people to have a second option of purchasing the cheap BP cosmetics.

100h is casual time for that length of period. You also don't need to play every day as you can do previous weekly task faster if you wait till alter on, and do them all at once. You can miss some days or play more some other days as well. Playing the game every few days or for a hour or 2 at a time is casuals. Trying to suggest other wise is your own basis as if trying to suggest casual play is suddenly bi weekly now.

You are trying to skew my argument again to change the direction to fit your narrative. If your argument boils down to someone doesn't want to play the game, so I simply say don't play the game.. I honestly think that argument is dog crap btw, but what you want to argue is on you. To make things extra clear i made the statement you can play the game however you want without worrying about task and finish the battle pass. You complained saying they had to play the game and/or viewing playing the game as grinding..

There are multiple ways to make money i expect them to do plenty of avenues for different types of players. People that enjoy battle asses and people that don't. Your argument is you want the benefits of the BP sale without any of the effort or a weird quest type of thing (which contradicts some points you have been saying on grinding, etc on top of being free?)

If you want BP cosmetics you do the battle pass, if you do not you buy items on the market, or items on sale on the market. You don't get to get the BP items for cheap just cause. Get the battle pass and play the game, casual players aren't going to have a issue with that. We have already went over that this is more a personal issue for you.

Based on how you will play AoC this isn't a issue for you since you will play above casual and consistently. Making it easy for you to get everything if you so choose to buy a BP. That or you just need to view it as a honor system for the game where you get a few free items for playing and can spend money and get a bit discount on some stuff once you have played it a certain amount during the season as a bonus bundle.

Mag7spy

Endowed wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Endowed wrote: »

Add actual game content that provides the same results.
It's why it's an mmorpg.
Battlepass is for surface skimming games. Imho.

Then just make the point you don't want a market place to monetize you. And convince IS they only need a sub fee with no marketplace.

Not sure what you are saying. Or trying to get me to say.

I'll make it extra simple. You are suggest the not add things to the store and put it into the game as content. so that means you are suggesting they not put things on the store market and you just want it in game to earn.

Which your point should be you don't want anything to do with a store market in the game. Very easy discussion there than going around in circles.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

If you want BP cosmetics you do the battle pass, if you do not you buy items on the market, or items on sale on the market. You don't get to get the BP items for cheap just cause. Get the battle pass and play the game, casual players aren't going to have a issue with that. We have already went over that this is more a personal issue for you.

Ok, you're fine with letting people being fucked over instead of having a better system got it

Azherae

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

If you want BP cosmetics you do the battle pass, if you do not you buy items on the market, or items on sale on the market. You don't get to get the BP items for cheap just cause. Get the battle pass and play the game, casual players aren't going to have a issue with that. We have already went over that this is more a personal issue for you.

Ok, you're fine with letting people being fucked over instead of having a better system got it

At least we're clear now.

On to phase two, the fifteen pages of if the other system is actually 'better' or 'possible'.

Aiming for a 30 page TTK.

Ludullu

Azherae wrote: »

At least we're clear now.

On to phase two, the fifteen pages of if the other system is actually 'better' or 'possible'.

Aiming for a 30 page TTK.

It was clear to me from the early pages, but I just had to discuss it all for a dozen pages, cause otherwise it's not clear to everyone who already doesn't care

Endowed

@Mag7spy
I'm 100% good with paying more.
Just keep as an MMO offering.
Not structured like a FIFA/NBA2k/Counterstrike offering, that doesn't have a persistent mmo world to use.
Also: Are the BattlePass rewards only good for cosmetics?
.
.
Getting this straight: Posters are saying the BattlePass...

???Players are paying a sub and they will have to pay more to do the BP? Or they will miss out on items and benefits???

That might be the worst mmo idea ever. Fit for failing mmos. >>>Certainly that is a pay-to-win structure.<<<

***Again. Okay with paying. Cost isn't an issue for me (see 3 alpha accounts). Easily will pay 25 a month as a sub, as opposed to doing any BPA$$ hijinx. If its an optional BPA$$, then Ill still pay it, but ill consider Intrepid to fall inline with Smilegate/PearlAbyss/King/Plarium. Which is a short term design.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

If you want BP cosmetics you do the battle pass, if you do not you buy items on the market, or items on sale on the market. You don't get to get the BP items for cheap just cause. Get the battle pass and play the game, casual players aren't going to have a issue with that. We have already went over that this is more a personal issue for you.

Ok, you're fine with letting people being fucked over instead of having a better system got it

People aren't being f'd over you are saving money. You are trying to use an exaggerated term to get things your way. The moment it is your way again you say they are trying to "f" people over. And you push the goal post.

you can't say having to play the game is "fing" someone over that makes 0 sense.

Now what games do "f" you over are gotcha games like Honkai Star Rail, genshin impact, Nevertwinter online (p2w plus higher tier cosmetics are faster and loot boxes), etc.

Mag7spy

Endowed wrote: »

@Mag7spy
I'm 100% good with paying more.
Just keep as an MMO offering.
Not structured like a FIFA/NBA2k/Counterstrike offering, that doesn't have a persistent mmo world to use.
Also: Are the BattlePass rewards only good for cosmetics?
.
.
Getting this straight: Posters are saying the BattlePass...

???Players are paying a sub and they will have to pay more to do the BP? Or they will miss out on items and benefits???

That might be the worst mmo idea ever. Fit for failing mmos. >>>Certainly that is a pay-to-win structure.<<<

***Again. Okay with paying. Cost isn't an issue for me (see 3 alpha accounts). Easily will pay 25 a month as a sub, as opposed to doing any BPA$$ hijinx. If its an optional BPA$$, then Ill still pay it, but ill consider Intrepid to fall inline with Smilegate/PearlAbyss/King/Plarium. Which is a short term design.

There is no benefits to miss out on we are not talking about p2w we are talking about cosmetics. This is a different discussion if there is special benefits that make the game easier for you and no one is arguing for that.

The different between PA is their outfits were dog crap and it be easier to make the argument that they are trying to "f" people over by making everyone look bad / the same unless they spend money. but in AoC case the gear you get is going to look as good as cosmetics. So that isn't really a issue and again no p2w.

But yes they are both trying to monetize players (like every single other game) but they are going above the standard atm as far as new games are concerned. No p2w and just cosmetics.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

People aren't being f'd over you are saving money. You are trying to use an exaggerated term to get things your way. The moment it is your way again you say they are trying to "f" people over. And you push the goal post.

So a person needs to keep paying the sub cost just to get the thing they already paid for in the BP, and that's NOT fucking people over?

Again, if my suggestion was implemented, Intrepid would get the money from people who might not want to buy the BP, but who want a cosmetic from it. If the person is not interested in playing the game for BP reason - they wouldn't pay for it, but they could still be interested in the cosmetics from it and might instead buy those directly.

If instead of having the BP direct people to random content we had in-game system that do that - people who don't care about the BP or cosmetics would spend more time in the game by default.

What I'm suggesting would bring more money to Intrepid and have more people play for longer, all w/o the optics of "this game has a BP", which obviously shades the game in a bad light, as evident by other commenters here who dislike BPs as a sheer concept.

But you keep insisting that BP is somehow more beneficial than what I'm suggesting.

devmage

Battle Passes don't belong in an MMO. Neither do "Seasons", seasons the weather awesome, "Seasons" the timed content like WoW is trying to do now are dumb and make no sense in an MMO. These things take you out of the world, and put you into a game (most likely smack in the middle of some monetization as well).

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

Ok, you're fine with letting people being fucked over instead of having a better system got it

There isn't a better system. It's basically the same system as Questing.
Just Quests have dialogue, take longer to complete than an individual BP Task and you generally get an item for completing one Quest rather than getting a completing a bunch of simple Tasks to get one item.

You can't meaningfully ask for a better system when don't actually understand the system you're trying to critique.

Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

You can't meaningfully ask for a better system when don't actually understand the system you're trying to critique.

I'm talking about the monetization system there.

Also, you've just said "a thing that takes a bit longer rewards the same thing that a group of slightly shorter activities does". So it's the same thing, but packaged differently. Which means that we could in fact get rid of the BP and literally nothing would change. That's great

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

People aren't being f'd over you are saving money. You are trying to use an exaggerated term to get things your way. The moment it is your way again you say they are trying to "f" people over. And you push the goal post.

So a person needs to keep paying the sub cost just to get the thing they already paid for in the BP, and that's NOT fucking people over?

Again, if my suggestion was implemented, Intrepid would get the money from people who might not want to buy the BP, but who want a cosmetic from it. If the person is not interested in playing the game for BP reason - they wouldn't pay for it, but they could still be interested in the cosmetics from it and might instead buy those directly.

If instead of having the BP direct people to random content we had in-game system that do that - people who don't care about the BP or cosmetics would spend more time in the game by default.

What I'm suggesting would bring more money to Intrepid and have more people play for longer, all w/o the optics of "this game has a BP", which obviously shades the game in a bad light, as evident by other commenters here who dislike BPs as a sheer concept.

But you keep insisting that BP is somehow more beneficial than what I'm suggesting.

Yes the person needs to pay a sub free to be able to to use items they buy $$$ in the game, how is this even a question.

Intrepid will already get money from people that won't buy the BP because there is going to be a whole market place of items for people to buy from. Your suggestion doesn't do anything except saying IS should sell skins on sale which they will eventually already do.

Intrepid will get money from people that don't normally buy too much or are cheaper and usually use their item as a cost with a BP (which time is minimal as its usually on a casual level).

How many times do i need to say this YOU CAN DO ANY CONTENT IN THE GAME AND level UP THE BP. You don't need to do weekly or daily content if you don't want to.

It will bring money because its industry standard and people are fine with it. Again your suggestion is to sell things dirt cheap and not have the benefits of the battle pass for players that will enjoy the additional progress and or want to simply level one up for the rewards.

Tons of games have a a BP looking at optics doesn't change anything. Players are fine with BP, even more so when there is a free one and they can get a free items and buy it time to time. When we are talking about a cosmetic only BP where u can earn tons of outfits in the game already there is like no negative optics to even consider.

*edit im well aware of what is beneficial. Everything being free with a 15$ sub and no market place is beneficial as well, one time box cost would be super beneficial and tons of people can play im not going to argue what is more beneficial, ill argue what is realistic. A BP is not that big a deal in this situation it is the best case since people can ignore it if they want and it doesn't effect them. And people that want some items for cheap can pick it up or just enjoy that type of gameplay.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

You can't meaningfully ask for a better system when don't actually understand the system you're trying to critique.

I'm talking about the monetization system there.

Also, you've just said "a thing that takes a bit longer rewards the same thing that a group of slightly shorter activities does". So it's the same thing, but packaged differently. Which means that we could in fact get rid of the BP and literally nothing would change. That's great

Then we go to your point where you complained about not getting the items instantly and trying to do some convoluted annoying quest to get items. Which makes you contradict yourself.

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