True Stealth

@Vaknar @StevenSharif or whoever, can you clarify what Steven meant by "true stealth" for rogues? Did he just mean it's not proximity based like camouflage is? Are we still getting the predator type stealth? Or has it changed to actually be completely invisible?

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Depraved

NiKr wrote: »

Voeltz wrote: »

I would say 'fairly far' would be a lot less than that, that's VERY far. So far, I haven't seen anything close to that in Ashes.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Camera
A "pretty significant" zoom out distance for the camera will be possible.

Like I said, Steven prefers full zoom out, so it will be in the game as an option. And that option will be the near-default one for anyone who wants to excel at mass pvp.

I already showed you Steven's first inspiration for Ashes. Here's another one.

You might dislike this, but this is what Steven prefers and what, as Azherae pointed out, is the usual preference for the games of this type (i.e. mass pvp mmos with tab targeting).

This kind of stuff is also why I keep saying that tab target games can require a much higher precision skill than any action stuff. Because simply tabbing through your targeting doesn't work when you have dozens and hundreds of enemies around you. And at these scales you gotta pixel hunt your targets. And the ones who can do it better - win.

or the ones who use adrenaline and ranger win xDDD

Voeltz

NiKr wrote: »

Like I said, Steven prefers full zoom out, so it will be in the game as an option. And that option will be the near-default one for anyone who wants to excel at mass pvp.

I already showed you Steven's first inspiration for Ashes. Here's another one.

You might dislike this, but this is what Steven prefers and what, as Azherae pointed out, is the usual preference for the games of this type (i.e. mass pvp mmos with tab targeting).

This kind of stuff is also why I keep saying that tab target games can require a much higher precision skill than any action stuff. Because simply tabbing through your targeting doesn't work when you have dozens and hundreds of enemies around you. And at these scales you gotta pixel hunt your targets. And the ones who can do it better - win.

We'll see what that translates to in Ashes. So far the zoom levels demonstrated aren't anything crazy. First one is not that big of a deal, I could maybe see myself using a zoom similar in large fights. The other two look like Archeage? When I played, I never had to use a zoom like that nor do I see how it's useful for combat purposes, and I still dominated of course. I feel like that would make you play worse because you can't see shit next to your character or guage distances accurately, but you do you if they end up giving you that option. Good luck active blocking or dodging attacks that way

Its also worth pointing out L2 and Archeage may be Steven's top inspirations for Ashes, but that doesn't mean we're going to get a carbon copy of those games. Sure there will probably be a good amount of their systems included, but I'm seeing several other games systems in the mix and also some brand new ideas.

Ludullu

Voeltz wrote: »

Its also worth pointing out L2 and Archeage may be Steven's top inspirations for Ashes, but that doesn't mean we're going to get a carbon copy of those games. Sure there will probably be a good amount of their systems included, but I'm seeing several other games systems in the mix and also some brand new ideas.

It's easier to say that their zoomability will be taken to Ashes when Steven outright says so

Spif

When Steven uses a term like True Stealth, that means complete invisibility of the character model. Note that in other games with stealth, no position information about stealthed characters is sent to enemy clients. That makes it hard to do things like waving grass or footprints. And arguably, leaving footprints is just an "AE here" sign anyway.

True Stealth does not mean 100% uptime stealth for all rogues (IE, 10 sec stealth spell on 15s cooldown, although that's a real lazy way to do it), but I would expect there to be a way to spec for it. ESO does it in a decent way. Moving in stealth costs stamina

That still leaves plenty of counters to stealth: See invisible buffs via items or abilities, GTAE, one-shot PBAE reveal spells/abilities, DoTs/debuffs to keep rogues from re-stealthing, weather (conjured or natural) that puts an outline on an invisible character...essentially changing them from invisible to camouflaged, etc.

I also expect there to be an invisibility spell for one or three other classes, but maybe only as a rogue augment.

Aszkalon

Tragnar wrote: »

all i can hope for is that there wont be passive stealth reveal aura or spammable big aoe reveal

You address a nice Point there. There is no greater Cancer than "AoE-Exposure" against Stealth since WoW Vanilla.

It completely removes skillful Stealth Gameplay. And funnily - it is always used in WoW by People with countless Macros to spam oneself to death.

And when oneself uses AoE-Flare (Hunter-Class) - i can never expose anyone. So jeah i am honest here. If that Crap doesn't for me -> then i see no Reason why it should work for anyone else. Yes i don't care if i am salty and envious.

There is nothing more annoying than "Mages" in WoW casting Blizzard somewhere - and You can NEVER go anywhere near their Raid Group without being forced out of Stealth,

or the same Crap with Enemy Hunters who spam their Flare. Strangely it is always the ENEMY Raid which can do that and never my own, but i guess this is just what i get for being an eternal Alliance-only-Player.

But Hands down,
more positive and hopefully heavy Reason here,

-> there will be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many People in Battles around Nodes and Castles - that there should be no need for People who can safely, easily - or even effortlessly reveal all Rogues in a Fifty Meters Radius easily.

Why ? Because fighting in Mass Battles will reveal the Rogues anyway. I mean -> if they do not "want" to be useless for their Allies by never leaving Stealth and never fighting - they have to leave Stealth to do "somewhat" at some Point.

Voeltz

Did you guys see the stealth ranger run by on stream? It's just as I thought it would be. Looks really good.

Ludullu

I saw even more! I saw a rogue in full stealth! It looked amazing

Nerror

NiKr wrote: »

I saw even more! I saw a rogue in full stealth! It looked amazing

Have a time-stamp? Or approximate time? Or are you kidding?

Ludullu

Nerror wrote: »

Have a time-stamp? Or approximate time? Or are you kidding?

Oh, no time-stamp needed. He was always there. Probably GM-powered his stealth to be permanent. Damn those cheating GMs

Nerror

NiKr wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

Have a time-stamp? Or approximate time? Or are you kidding?

Oh, no time-stamp needed. He was always there. Probably GM-powered his stealth to be permanent. Damn those cheating GMs

GM John Cena.

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