Battlepass in MMOs

State your opinion, I'll start with mine

They're dumb they are meant for repetitive games like shooters, they give you something to do in a games that are arena pvp weather it be a MOBA or Shooter. MMOs are supposed to keep you busy. adding chores on top of that for things I should just be able to work for tends to leave a bad taste in mouth.

Also the monetization of it is kind of dumb as well. FFXIV and WoW have raked in large amounts of money just doing cosmetics on the shop, do that without the predatory fear of missing out.

One other argument for me was when I was playing NW I wanted to support the game, I bought up dyes and emotes and spent more money on that game then I have any other game as far as cosmetics, I supported it because it was simple and clean way for them to make extra money. I stopped giving them my money after they started doing the battlepass. It even made me not care about collecting all the emotes anymore. It wasn't even to protest, I just stopped caring.

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nevermind

Battlepasses can be fun and provide an additional incentive. I personally really enjoy them, as long as they don't include any game-breaking /severely P2W advantages.
Passes that include cosmetics are always appreciated, too!

Noaani

NiKr wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

I'm going with the notion that the system is needlessly convoluted.

Nah, it's really straightforward.

Straight forward would be putting content in the game.

Anything else is needlessly convoluted.

Having a "free path" and a "paid path" is needless convolution.

Dygz

I mean... in WoW... the Battlepass is all fully in the game world.

Also, I'm not quite sure what is meant as "not in the game".
You have to do activities in the game world in order to earn the Cosmetics. And then the Cosmetics will be used in the game world.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

I mean... in WoW... the Battlepass is all fully in the game world.

Explain to me why it exists then.

With a company - especially a publically traded company - anything other than paying for a product and getting all of that product exists as a means to screw people out of more money for what they would have otherwise have recieved.

There is no reason at all that WoW needs to charge anything other than a subscription and box price for expansions. Anything else is taking content out of either expansions or free updates, and charging people for it as an individual product.

Dygz

I play the WoW Battlepass for free.
I've already explained why Battlepasses exist.

The Cosmetics Shop is already outside of the game world. I dunno why there should be a complaint about a cheaper way to gain Cosmetics that is typically a bridge between Quests in the game world and direct purchases outside of the game world.

Battlepasses help entice players who are motivated by doing a variety of Tasks beyond combat to earn Cosmetics (but who are not motivated to primarily repeat Dungeons and Raids in pursuit of BiS gear) to play many hours after the new "content" in the DLCs has been completed - where "content" refers to Quests, NPCs, mobs, gear.
Battlepasses are going to appeal more to Casual Challenge players than to Hardcore Challenge players.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

I play the WoW Battlepass for free.

Not the point.

I've already explained why Battlepasses exist.

No you haven't.

The Cosmetics Shop is already outside of the game world.

The cosmetics are in game, the place where they are purchased is of no import to this discussion. If it were, the argument would then be that the purchase of the games box cost and subscription happens outside of the game, thus everything in the game is actually outside of the game.

It's a stupid argument, don't make it again.

Battlepasses help entice players who are motivated by doing a variety of Tasks beyond combat to earn Cosmetics

Why should these people pay extra?

I don't pay extra for raids, you don't pay extra for quests, crafters don't pay extra, PvP'ers don't pay extra - why are these people paying extra?

Everything that is in the battlepass should be a part of free game updates - there is no argument or excuse that exists that can refute this.

The argument that this content wouldn't exist without a battlepass doesn't hold weight - Blizzard specifically (I can't speak for Epic - but I can for Blizzard) have not added additional developers to create battlepass content or cosmetics, they have simply allowed less work to be spent on the rest of the game.

Edit to add; your argument seems to be completely focused on what the battlepass contains. The opposing argument is that what the battlepass contains should be in the game, rather than bracketed in a battlepass. You don't need to defend WHAT is in the battlepass, you need to defend WHY it is in a battlepass.

So far, no one has managed to do this - I am unsure you even understand that this is the issue.

Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

The cosmetics are in game, the place where they are purchased is of no import to this discussion. If it were, the argument would then be that the purchase of the games box cost and subscription happens outside of the game, thus everything in the game is actually outside of the game.

It's a stupid argument, don't make it again.

That is my argument originally. The link there was "if in-game gameplay is required to get something that I paid for outside of the game - that's immersion breaking to me".

A direct purchase store should require no gameplay to get the item that you bought, which, to me, separates the bought cosmetics and the in-game stuff, so it's not as immersion breaking. But if I need to pay for the BP outside of the game and then this BP (which will supposedly be either on login screen or in launcher, cause it might be account-wide) tells me to do gameplay to earn what I paid for - that's immersion breaking to me, because my actions in the game are dictated by something outside of the game.

Dygz

In-game gameplay is already required to get something you paid for outside of the game if you paid for a subscription.
You cannot get BiS gear without doing stuff inside the game even though you paid the subscription outside of the game, so I dunno why all of a sudden BP Tasks from the Login Screen is more immersion-breaking than the Cosmetics Store.

It could be that looking at the Tasks in a UI that you access before you log into your character is "immersion-breaking" for some people (like my one friend who doesn't like chocolate), but it's really not much different than checking on Achievements Tasks.

In WoW, all the Battlepass Tasks can be accessed from the Traveler's Log, similar to how you access the Achievements UI and similar how you can look at Quests and Raids you want to do.
And, yes, there is an NPC near that Chest where you can use Trader's Tender to purchase the Cosmetics you want.
You do not have to pay for the WoW BP outside of the game.
So, I especially don't understand how the WoW Battlepass is immersion-breaking.

https://youtu.be/W19ZHp8tZK0?si=tmGXgflJGywuvUhP

Dygz

Noaani wrote: »

Why should these people pay extra?

I don't know what you mean by "pay extra" if the paid BP gives you 7+ Cosmetics for the price of one Cosmetic in the Shop and also gives you a bunch of Embers that can be used to purchase even more Cosmetics.
If you don't want to pay for it; don't pay for it.

Noaani wrote: »

I don't pay extra for raids, you don't pay extra for quests, crafters don't pay extra, PvP'ers don't pay extra - why are these people paying extra?

Exactly.
So... if you don't want to "pay extra" for extra Cosmetics and Embers... you would be doing Raids like you normally do and coincidentally earning Embers and Cosmetics from the free BP track.
And gamers who are ignoring the free BP path would be coincidentally earning Cosmetics and Embers from the free BP path.
They just might not earn enough Embers or XP to be able to collect all of the Cosmetics and rewards at the end of the BP path.
Even so, at some point they would have enough Embers to use in the Cosmetics Shop and where-ever else Embers are used.
Just by coincidentally playing the free BP path.

Noaani wrote: »

Everything that is in the battlepass should be a part of free game updates - there is no argument or excuse that exists that can refute this.

No argument or excuse is needed since a free path is usually offered on the Battlepass.
The APOC Battlepass had a free path, so I expect an Ashes BP to also have a free path.
If you want a bunch of extra Embers and Cosmetics in addition to the free ones, pay for the paid Legendary Path.
If you don't want a bunch of extra Embers and Cosmetics in addition to the free ones, don't pay for the paid Legendary Path.

Noaani wrote: »

The argument that this content wouldn't exist without a battlepass doesn't hold weight - Blizzard specifically (I can't speak for Epic - but I can for Blizzard) have not added additional developers to create battlepass content or cosmetics, they have simply allowed less work to be spent on the rest of the game.

I don't know what you are trying to say here.
The Traveler's Pavilion where you get your Season Pass Cosmetics is new content. It would not exist without the WoW Battlepass. And there are some BP Tasks that are created specifically for the month - especially related to holidays but also related to the Seasonal Content - whatever the theme of that month is.
I dunno what you mean by "less work to be spent on the rest of the game" since BP Tasks and Cosmetics don't take much work. Designing a full Quest with dialogue and Gear with stats is going to require a bunch of work and testing. A Task to "Eat 3 Food" or "Complete a Mythic Raid" does not take a lot of work. Especially does not take as long as a full Expansion.
Which is the entire point of a BP - entice the players who quit at Endgame to play several more hours by doing Casual Challenge Tasks for Cosmetics - as opposed to Dungeons and Raids for BiS Gear.
(Although, doing Dungeons and Raids will also earn BP XP, even coincidentally)

Noaani wrote: »

Edit to add; your argument seems to be completely focused on what the battlepass contains. The opposing argument is that what the battlepass contains should be in the game, rather than bracketed in a battlepass. You don't need to defend WHAT is in the battlepass, you need to defend WHY it is in a battlepass.

I don't know what that is supposed to mean.
In WoW, the BP is in the game world.
In NW and Fortnite, it's more part of the Login Screen UI. Similar to the Cosmetics Shop(s).
I don't need to explain why that design is OK for me. That's the way the devs have designed it and it works for me - just as Quests work for me and just as I'm OK with the Cosmetics Shop not being in the game world - but I'm not motivated to pursue BiS Gear via Endgame Dungeons and Raids. I can be motivated to do a bunch of other stuff in the game in pursuit of Cosmetics. And I don't mind spending $10 for a bunch of heavily discounted Cosmetics + Embers/vBucks/Tender's Trade.

I expect Ashes will have a BP. I kinda expect it will be similar to the APOC BP.
But, the APOC BP was 3 years ago. By the time Ashes releases, it could be similar to the WoW BP.

Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

So, I especially don't understand how the WoW Battlepass is immersion-breaking.

Yes, WoW's application is probably the most immersive one. And if it wasn't limited or fomoed to all hell (I know you'll say it isn't in your opinion) - it'd be a great thing for Ashes to have.

Except I'd simply go back to me saying "why even have this, when we already have tasks that can do the literal same thing and just reward cosmetics as well".

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Why should these people pay extra?

I don't know what you mean by "pay extra" if the paid BP gives you 7+ Cosmetics for the price of one Cosmetic in the Shop and also gives you a bunch of Embers that can be used to purchase even more Cosmetics.
If you don't want to pay for it; don't pay for it.

You are ignoring your own comment - you are once again only talking about the cosmetics.

Your comment was;

Dygz wrote: »

Battlepasses help entice players who are motivated by doing a variety of Tasks beyond combat to earn Cosmetics

You have made this statement, but you have not explained why people that are enticed by these tasks should pay extra, when people enticed by raids, dungeons, PvP or crafting do not need to pay extra.

Keep in mind, this is YOUR argument here that i am questioning. If you want to argue that the above is what a battlepass is in WoW, you need to justify why that is OK.

I don't know what you are trying to say here.
The Traveler's Pavilion where you get your Season Pass Cosmetics is new content. It would not exist without the WoW Battlepass.

It may not exist, but something would exist on its place.

When WoW first added mounts for sale, they didn't hire a new developer to make them.

What they did is make it so the character art team needed to make 4 less character models for each mount they wanted to add, and put that spare time towards the mounts. The mounts exist in exchange for more character models (mobs, specifically).

With battlepass, they are taking the content design team, asking them to produce fewer quests, and putting that spare time toward battlepass.

Basically, The Traveler's Pavillion exists in exchange for about 8 - 10 hours of proper questing that now will never exist. It isn't additional content above and beyond what would exist if battlepass wasn't a thing, it is content that exists instead of better content that would have existed.

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

Yes, WoW's application is probably the most immersive one. And if it wasn't limited or fomoed to all hell (I know you'll say it isn't in your opinion) - it'd be a great thing for Ashes to have.

How is the Wow Battlepass fomo when you can save items you want to purchase for future months if you don't earn enough for all the items you want in the current month?
What's the limit?

NiKr wrote: »

Except I'd simply go back to me saying "why even have this, when we already have tasks that can do the literal same thing and just reward cosmetics as well".

So, here, you are saying that you are also expecting Ashes to have a BP.

Dygz

Noaani wrote: »

You are ignoring your own comment - you are once again only talking about the cosmetics.

What? Did you just skip the part where I mentioned Dungeons, Raiding and BiS gear?

Noaani wrote: »

You have made this statement, but you have not explained why people that are enticed by these tasks should pay extra, when people enticed by raids, dungeons, PvP or crafting do not need to pay extra.

Dygz wrote: »

BPs typically have a free path and a paid path.
Nobody is forced to pay for the paid path of a BP.

Dygz wrote: »

Battlepasses help entice players who are motivated by doing a variety of Tasks beyond combat to earn Cosmetics (but who are not motivated to primarily repeat Dungeons and Raids in pursuit of BiS gear) to play many hours after the new "content" in the DLCs has been completed - where "content" refers to Quests, NPCs, mobs, gear.
Battlepasses are going to appeal more to Casual Challenge players than to Hardcore Challenge players.

Dygz wrote: »

If you want a bunch of extra Embers and Cosmetics in addition to the free ones, pay for the paid Legendary Path.
If you don't want a bunch of extra Embers and Cosmetics in addition to the free ones, don't pay for the paid Legendary Path.

I did explain.
Doing BP Tasks to earn Cosmetics is similar to doing Quests for Gear, the differences are that Tasks are simpler and quicker to complete than a Quest. And you complete several Tasks to earn a BP reward.
Also, BP Tasks are account-wide and include every category of activities in the game. Including Dungeons and Raids.

Noaani wrote: »

Keep in mind, this is YOUR argument here that i am questioning. If you want to argue that the above is what a battlepass is in WoW, you need to justify why that is OK.

I don't have to justify why it's OK because "paying extra" isn't really a thing.
The only thing that might be considered "paying extra" is "if you want a bunch more Cosmetics at a huge Discount (rather than paying full Shop prices) and you want even more Embers - you can pay for the paid track of the BP for ~$10 which tends to be around the cheapest price of a Cosmetic in the Shop.
If you don't want to purchase the paid track of the BP - don't purchase the paid track of the BP".
Playing the free path of a BP is not paying extra.
All of which I explained in previous posts.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

You are ignoring your own comment - you are once again only talking about the cosmetics.

What? Did you just skip the part where I mentioned Dungeons, Raiding and BiS gear?

Thst literally has nothing to do with it.

It would have made as much sense if you talked about how Bolivian bananas float in sea water, but Colombian bananas don't.

You can't just talk about some random unconnected thing, and then point to it when people say you haven't addressed something.

People that raid, craft or PvP do not need to pay extra for content. They get all of that content for the box/subscription cost.

Why then do people that want these tasks need to pay the box/subscription cost, and the battlepass cost in order to have access to all of their content?

You literally have not addressed this at all.

Doing BP Tasks to earn Cosmetics is similar to doing Quests for Gear, the differences are that Tasks are simpler and quicker to complete than a Quest. And you complete several Tasks to earn a BP reward.

You are doing that thing where you attempt to justify WHAT a battlepass is, while completely ignoring WHY.

Playing the free path of a BP is not paying extra.
All of which I explained in previous posts.

The fact that the free aspect of it exists does not excuse the fact that the paid for aspect of it exists.

Why should the above people that want those tasks have to pay additional money on top of the box/subscription to have access to all of the content within their sphere, when raiders, crafters and PvP'ers get all of the content within their sphere without needing to pay extra.

Yes, there is a free aspect to it, but there is also a not free aspect to it. It is that not free part that is the question, and once again the fact that there is a free aspect does not at all excuse the not free part.

The basic fact is, if that content is something that a developer considers worth having in game - those tasks that you talk about above - then they should just be in the game, not as some paid for addition.

Aszkalon

...

~ We are lured by the Battlepass ~

~ Made privileged by the Battlepass ~

~ Undone by the Battlepass ~

~ Our Wallets are yet to open ~

~ FEAR the Battlepass ~

...

Dygz

Noaani wrote: »

People that raid, craft or PvP do not need to pay extra for content. They get all of that content for the box/subscription cost.

The same is true with a Battlepass - unless you want extra Embers and extra discounted Cosmetics.

Noaani wrote: »

Why then do people that want these tasks need to pay the box/subscription cost, and the battlepass cost in order to have access to all of their content?

Battlepass typically has a free path. And then, if you want extra stuff on the Battlepass, you pay for the preimum path - which will get you more stuff at a heavily discounted price.
It's as if you cannot read the word free.

Noaani wrote: »

You literally have not addressed this at all.
Why should the above people that want those tasks have to pay additional money on top of the box/subscription to have access to all of the content within their sphere, when raiders, crafters and PvP'ers get all of the content within their sphere without needing to pay extra.

I literally did address it.
Battlepass typically has a free path, so they don't have to pay additional money.
If they want to pay additional money for additional stuff, they have an option to pay for additional stuff.
Why do they have to pay for Cosmetics from the Cosmetics Store??

Noaani wrote: »

Yes, there is a free aspect to it, but there is also a not free aspect to it. It is that not free part that is the question, and once again the fact that there is a free aspect does not at all excuse the not free part.

If you want the additional stuff on the BP, you pay for access to the additional stuff.
If you don't want additional stuff, don't pay for access to the addtional stuff.
And the carrot to pay for the additional stuff is that it's 80%-90% discounted compared to the Cosmetics Store.

Noaani wrote: »

The basic fact is, if that content is something that a developer considers worth having in game - those tasks that you talk about above - then they should just be in the game, not as some paid for addition.

LMAO
That is an opinion; not a fact.
BP Tasks are in the game similar to how Achievements are in the game.
When you pay for extra stuff on the premium path, you aren't getting extra BP Tasks. You're just getting extra rewards for completing the exact same Tasks as the free BP path.

Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

How is the Wow Battlepass fomo when you can save items you want to purchase for future months if you don't earn enough for all the items you want in the current month?
What's the limit?

There should be no damn limit. Any limit would only exist to force people to play more or to keep paying the sub (AND potentially play more) even if they might not have anymore content to do.

If you can't buy all the things that were added at any time - that's fomo. If you're told that these things "will return at some point in the future" - that's just a scam for you to keep your sub, because you might MISS OUT on the rerun.

And as I said before, if the rerun happens as a full copy of the previous BP, this would simply mean that BP doesn't serve its purpose, because anyone who had completed the original run of the BP would not have any reason to play the game outside of the normal content that was added during the BP rerun's season.

And if the rerun is done by simply adding more items into the store - the people would have to choose between the new cosmetics and the rerun cosmetics, while they only have currency for one of them (and that is if they even can complete the BP during that season).

All of this is a damn scam, but it's obvious that both you and Mag are either not seeing it or are completely fine with being used.

Dygz wrote: »

So, here, you are saying that you are also expecting Ashes to have a BP.

No, I expect bulletin board tasks which will already be in the game. And as I've been saying from literally my first comment in this thread - why have a BP when we already have a system that does the same thing but w/o the BP implications.

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

There should be no damn limit. Any limit would only exist to force people to play more or to keep paying the sub (AND potentially play more) even if they might not have anymore content to do.

If you can't buy all the things that were added at any time - that's fomo. If you're told that these things "will return at some point in the future" - that's just a scam for you to keep your sub, because you might MISS OUT on the rerun.

What are you even talking about? What limit?
Limit is not a thing.
Battlepass gives you some free Cosmetics that you don't have to purchase from the Cosmetics Store.
Ashes already has plenty of fomo in the main design - without a Cosmetics Store and without a BP.
Ashes is a dynamic game - you cannot experience all of the things or collect all of the things - because stuff will be locked out based on the combinations of Nodes/Government/Racial distribution/Social Orgs/Religions and Events.
The Cosmetics Store already has plenty of fomo.
Typically I'm not going to pay Cosmetic Store prices because they are too expensive. I'm rarely going to pay $25 for a Mount or $35 for a Freehold Skin.
I might pay $10 to get 7 Basic Mounts + 1 Epic Mount + a bunch of Embers + a bunch of other stuff or to get 5 Freehold Skins + a bunch of Embers + a bunch of other stuff.

What is the scam to keep the sub for rerun?
What even is a rerun? I have no clue what you're talking about.
Seems like you are just making shit up in your own head... again.

NiKr wrote: »

And as I said before, if the rerun happens as a full copy of the previous BP, this would simply mean that BP doesn't serve its purpose, because anyone who had completed the original run of the BP would not have any reason to play the game outside of the normal content that was added during the BP rerun's season.

It's not going to be a full copy of a previous BP - again, that is something that you're making up in your own head to try to find some way for BPs to suck. Because you think they have to suck some kinda way.
Some items on a BP may return on a future BP. For sure Embers will always be on the BP. Actually, Embers will likely always appear in bulk multiple times on every Ashes BP. And then some individual Cosmetics might appear on a future BP.

For instance, the current Fortnite BP has 6 new Characters related to the new BR Story (mash-up of Mad Max + Fallout):
The Machinist; Rust; Peabody; Scarr; Bright Raider; and Megalo Don.
I will get a LEGO version of each of them (and a BR version of each of them)
The BP also includes 7 BR variants of each of those characters. (Which I don't care about.)
I get the BP as a perk for being a member of the Fortnite Crew - which is $11 per month.
I purchase the Fortnite Crew monthly because I get a cool new character every 1st of each month - June was:

Without the BP, Jing would cost 2K vBucks in the Item Shop. ~$18
Fortnite Crew costs $11 (1.2K vBucks): Character Skin + 1K vBucks + BP + Racing BP
The BP is going to have 6+ more Character Skins + 1K vBucks + a bunch of other stuff.

I can finish the BP in one month - so for the price of 1 premium skin:
I get back the price of the premium skin in vBucks.
I also get +7 new Characters
I also get a bunch of other stuff, mostly for the BR and Racing Game Modes.
(I could also unlock the Bonus track and earn another 1K vBucks + 6 different BR Character Variants + a bunch of other BR items.)
So... I could jump out of the Fortnite Crew for 2 months since I'm not interested in the 2 BR Character Variants for Jul and Aug.
Total Win/Win

In 30 days, Magneto unlocks on the BP. For LEGO and the BR, it's a variant of Magneto that fits the theme of the current story: Wastelander Magneto. Fortnite Crew costs $11 (1.2K vBucks) < 1.5K vBucks
May 15th - May 18th, 2024, the Item Shop had some X-Men Characters for sale - each for 1.5K:
Rogue and Gambit (or as a Bundle for 2.1K). Prior to that, available Jan 14th - Jan 17th and Aug 19th - 31st.
Psylock, Cable and Domino (or as a Bundle for 3K). Also, available Jan 14th - Jan 17th and Aug 19th - 31st.
X-23, Dark Phoenix. Also, available Aug 19th - 31st, 2023 and Mar 5th - 11th 2023.

The cheapest way for me to acquire Magneto any time soon is via the Fortnite Crew with the July 2024 BP.
Otherwise, I have to hope that Magneto will be added to the Item Shop in Jan 2025.
We are expecting a Fortnite x Marvel Event in Aug 2024 - the next Season Event (Chapter 5: Season 4).
Most likely, the BP will include 7 Marvel Characters. Doctor Doom is likely to be one of those. There might be some X-Men Characters on the BP. Unlikely that Magneto will reappear on the BP that quickly.

Someone who doesn't care about Magneto and the X-Men might choose not to pay for the Fortnite Crew for July and Aug and/or wait for Season 4 to drop before re-joining Fortnite Crew.

NiKr wrote: »

And if the rerun is done by simply adding more items into the store - the people would have to choose between the new cosmetics and the rerun cosmetics, while they only have currency for one of them (and that is if they even can complete the BP during that season).

I already told you that with Fortnite, all of the fomo exists in the Item Shop; not in the BP.
I think the choice you are trying to describe, here, is that people would have to choose between the full price items in the Store and the 80%-90% discounted items in the BP.
An item will not appear in the Shop and the BP at the same time.
People will most likely either choose to get the free or heavily discounted items in the BP rather than pay full price in the Cosmetics Store.
I'm probably not going to pay $35 or $50 for a Freehold Skin from the Cosmetics Store more frequently than once or twice a year.
I will happily pay $25 (sub + BP pass) each month to earn 5 Freehold Skins + a bunch of Embers + a bunch of other stuff by completing BP Tasks. Assuming I like the Cosmetics offered via the BP on any individual month.

NiKr wrote: »

All of this is a damn scam, but it's obvious that both you and Mag are either not seeing it or are completely fine with being used.

There is no scam. You are just trying to twist reality any way you can to fabricate a scam.

NiKr wrote: »

So, here, you are saying that you are also expecting Ashes to have a BP.

I expect bulletin board tasks which will already be in the game. And as I've been saying from literally my first comment in this thread - why have a BP when we already have a system that does the same thing but w/o the BP implications.[/quote]
I have no clue what you think you mean by BP implications.
Ashes will have Bulletin Board Tasks, but Bulletin Board Tasks cannot do the same thing as BP Tasks without having BP implications.
Of course, what you mean by BP implications are a fantasy you've concocted in your own head.
It's like saying we can't land a rocket on the Moon because the rocket is too heavy and would sink into the green cheese you think the Moon is made of.
Just because it seems like the universe is geocentric from your pov does not mean the universe is truly geocentric.

(Achievements offering discounted Cosmetics and Embers, instead of/or in addtion to offering Titles, makes more sense than equating Bulletin Board Tasks with BP Tasks.)

Legi

In general I think BPs are stupid. You buy something that gives you something if you additionally spend time in the game..? I think its a concept that prays on fomo and adds pressure to play a game to complete the pass. Even though, I think BPs have a place in F2P MMOs as their kind of subscription model I prefer "VIP-Auras" or similar things. Where you get what you pay for without additional work you need to put in. But the developer somehow has to make a living and if BPs are their way of doing it, why not.
When you have a box prices and/or a subsciption model I dont want to see a BP, a VIP model and honestly no costume or QoL cash shop either. You pay enough for the game already, companies wanting more are too greedy for my taste. Dont earn enough? Raise the prices or changes your model. I dont really like the concept of bought costumes in mmos, I prefer to have to earn the best looking armor ingame like the old days. Achieve it by playing the game not by swiping your credit card this way you can be proud of it.

Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

What are you even talking about? What limit?
Limit is not a thing.

Limit on the monthly currency in relation to how many there are and how much the items cost. WoW's BP gives you 1k points a month and literally the first item on the BP's season costs 900 points. This is the limit.

Dygz wrote: »

What is the scam to keep the sub for rerun?
What even is a rerun? I have no clue what you're talking about.
Seems like you are just making shit up in your own head... again.

The limit that I explained above means that you'll need to continue playing and accruing points if you want to buy as much stuff as you want.

You've literally said yourself that items on the BP come back (and I even disregarded the contradicting information from videos) in later BPs. This is the "rerun". No matter which form/way/method they come back in - it's gonna be detrimental to the overall BP experience, as I've already explained twice before.

Dygz wrote: »

Someone who doesn't care about Magneto and the X-Men might choose not to pay for the Fortnite Crew for July and Aug and/or wait for Season 4 to drop before re-joining Fortnite Crew.

And if "Magneto" was on a rerun (meaning that some people have gotten him in the past) - people might not want to play the game for more than the seasonal content requires.

Which then means that your point of "BP makes people play for longer" doesn't apply to BP seasons where high value cosmetics come back into the rotation. This also serves a double purpose against Mag's point of "BP makes money", because if BPs have a fomo rotation then the company will inevitable get less money on the rerun.

I could literally point towards Mihoyo games as proof, for their character banner reruns always make less money (unless the character has become meta in the meantime, while it wasn't perceived as one on the first run of the banner).

Dygz wrote: »

I already told you that with Fortnite, all of the fomo exists in the Item Shop; not in the BP.

And I keep telling you that this price and the so called "discount" is a scam.

If a shop sold toys and there were 2 ABSOLUTELY SAME TOYS in 2 aisles, but in one aisle the toy costed $5, while in the other it costed $10. And the first toy was on "discount", but with literally 0 difference between the two. Would you not think that you're being scammed on the price of the second toy?

The toy obviously cost the manufacturers the same amount to produce, but there's 2 prices to full the buyer into thinking "ohhh, I'll get one over on this seller if I purchase the cheaper one heheh", when it's obvious beyond belief that it's the buyer who's getting fooled. This is the most basic marketing ploy and both you and Mag seem to be falling head over heels for it.

BP is not a "discount". It's simply closer to the real cost of the items being sold, while singular cosmetics fool people into thinking that by buying a BP they're getting a good deal. I want Intrepid to be more honest than that.

And yes, Ashes has already had a ton of fomo. And that shit has made it seem like a scam to thousands of people. I don't want the same to happen to the game on release. And yet here you are being completely complacent with the "expected" course of things. Why settle for shit, when you can have chocolate?

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