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Where is the Action Combat?
MrKryptic337
Member
Greetings fellow adventurers,
As an avid follower of the development progress of Ashes of Creation, I cannot help but express my concerns regarding the direction of its combat system. While the game showcases remarkable progress in various aspects, particularly its stunning visuals and immersive world-building, the emphasis on tab target combat in recent updates, notably the Node Wars update, raises questions about the game's combat experience.
While tab target combat has its merits, catering to a specific subset of players, I worry that prioritizing it over action combat might alienate a significant portion of the player base. Action combat, known for its dynamic and engaging gameplay, holds immense potential to elevate the gaming experience, offering a more visceral and responsive gameplay style.
As we eagerly anticipate the release of Ashes of Creation, I find myself pondering whether the combat mechanics will shine as brightly as the rest of the game. Is the development team fully aware of the community's expectations regarding combat? Have they considered implementing a true hybrid combat system that seamlessly integrates both tab target and action elements?
While I remain optimistic about the game's future, I believe it's essential to voice our concerns and aspirations as a community. Let us engage in constructive dialogue and collectively strive for a gaming experience that truly resonates with all players.
As an avid follower of the development progress of Ashes of Creation, I cannot help but express my concerns regarding the direction of its combat system. While the game showcases remarkable progress in various aspects, particularly its stunning visuals and immersive world-building, the emphasis on tab target combat in recent updates, notably the Node Wars update, raises questions about the game's combat experience.
While tab target combat has its merits, catering to a specific subset of players, I worry that prioritizing it over action combat might alienate a significant portion of the player base. Action combat, known for its dynamic and engaging gameplay, holds immense potential to elevate the gaming experience, offering a more visceral and responsive gameplay style.
As we eagerly anticipate the release of Ashes of Creation, I find myself pondering whether the combat mechanics will shine as brightly as the rest of the game. Is the development team fully aware of the community's expectations regarding combat? Have they considered implementing a true hybrid combat system that seamlessly integrates both tab target and action elements?
While I remain optimistic about the game's future, I believe it's essential to voice our concerns and aspirations as a community. Let us engage in constructive dialogue and collectively strive for a gaming experience that truly resonates with all players.
11
Comments
Was having a discussion with some of my guild members during the stream. I'm curious what would you need to meet your expectations for action combat gameplay wise?
When playing New World I loved the bow, however, would be disinvited to a dungeon purely for using a weapon with action combat.
Even if action is an option if it is not incentivized to use, people will either expect only tab or mostly tab of their players.
One way that Ashes could incentivize the use of action is to use their combination system. Allowing tab target skills to add status affects to the target, where an action based ability takes a skill shot to activate.
Same question for you as above
have you thought that maybe they are catering to the players who like tab targeting and if you make the game action combat you might alienate a significant portion of the playerbase?
anyways, they are developing a hybrid combat system already, leaning a bit more towards tab targetting.
In my view, a great hybrid system would incorporate the best of both worlds. Here are some elements I believe would contribute to such a system:
Real-Time Targeting with Tab Target Skills: Imagine a system where you have the flexibility of real-time targeting for basic attacks, controlled by mouse clicks or keybinds, while still utilizing tab targeting for more complex skill rotations. This blend would offer a dynamic combat flow, allowing players to switch seamlessly between precision-based attacks and strategic skill management.
Active Block and Dodging: Introducing active block and dodging mechanics adds an extra layer of skill and strategy to combat encounters. Players would have the ability to actively mitigate damage by timing their blocks and evasions effectively, rewarding quick reflexes and tactical decision-making.
Sprint/Movement Abilities: Incorporating sprinting and movement abilities enhances the mobility aspect of combat, empowering players to navigate the battlefield with agility and finesse. Whether it's closing the distance to engage an enemy or evading incoming attacks, these mechanics add depth to the overall combat experience.
Active defenses are coming in later alpha iterations, melee is more action leaning and ranged is more tab leaning at the moment though you can play in both.
Don't expect free aim in Ashes like you would see in NW, Conq Blade, or Chiv. Expect something like TERA which was pretty generous when it comes to any type of action ability. You can also expect that people will argue these points with you till you're blue in the face.
It's best to give clear and concise examples from the previous titles you played so when people say, "I hated that combat system" you can simply just retort that they weren't ever good at it.
A lot of people are coming from tab games and they'd sooner quit Ashes if they ever had to develop the skills needed to play a more action oriented MMO.
On a side note, you write like an AI.
so basically, if u don't like tab target, I can simply say that you weren't good at it.
So long as they are sticking to what they said before it kind of is like that already. You can use both tab and action together kind of thing. So if you are in action camera you have kind of a soft lock and can attack enemies and such as you play in that mode.
My guild does agree in things look very tab, even more so since you often see the view of people playing in the tab mode over action. I'd agree it be nice to see more action camera view points but I'm sure its eaiser for most people to play in Tab. Which raises the question on the benefit of action oriented skills and camera over tab (which there should be one).
Ya i agree on all the blocking elements they are still working on elements on that and how it works exactly. Discussion i had with my guild is one of them at the view point its about your ability to react and such which makes action combat for them. Without block, parry, dodge and such they won't view things as action combat.
Though i need to play AoC myself to judge the camera and how action mode / combat feels.
If they truly are proceeding with the 2 separate combat modes, action abilities should take you into that mode via templated aoe or skill shot/reticle similar to league of legends. I would of course prefer more action than tab, but I've given up on that ever happening based on Stevens preference of tab target and the fact that they won't even acknowledge our concerns to begin with.
Anytime you bring it up here the tab lovers will gaslight and claim it's a 'hybrid' when obviously it's not, it's basically just another tab target game. Tab being boring, low skill ceiling and dated is only one part of the problem, the other is it's appeal. The only people who still want it are old MMO players who are stuck in their ways and the past. They refuse to move forward and adapt. Whatever happened to "moving the genre forward" and how can you do so by refusing to move on from 20+year old combat? It's the most important aspect of a game and easily the biggest system needing an overhaul in MMOs. Many gamers from younger generations will not even touch this game simply due to the combat, but you need them for Ashes to be a success. Launching a game with tab combat today is like choosing Unreal Engine 4 instead of UE5. You're choosing to launch a brand new game in an outdated state out of complacency and that's a huge mistake.
There is no need to jump to conclusions now, but I am worried about the combat, I have only seen tab target in all the live broadcasts. Without the action combat it will not attract younger players or more experienced in combat or pvp. And the combat now will become boring and monotonous.
I think intrepid's goal in that sense is for middle-aged people.
Action camera mode**
It's easier to turn the camera on action camera mode, so most likely they played a melee class.
This doesn't necessarily mean it's better for melee classes to use action camera mode, it's harder to select the intended target (e.g. enemy healer) and dive in a crowd. Blitz can't be used without a target.
Target-locking is still required on action camera mode to use most of the skills, so yeah, this is not Action Combat.
Well said.
I'm truly curious as to how they coexist with each other. For example: What do you trade for 100% accuracy on a ranged class? Why would anyone ever want to go action? There needs to be a tradeoff but how do you balance that?
IMO: I think ESO has the best iteration of a true hybrid combat system and I would've loved for Steven to have taken some inspiration from that and maybe expanded on it.
Do you mean that action combat would involve *no* tab-targeting? My definition of action combat is having combat abilities that are open to hitting anything in their path: the swing of a sword hitting 2 or 3 players, cone-attacks, AoE's, etc. Attacks that - in essence - don't require you to have a specific target selected/highlighted.
In any such system, I'd still like to tab-target enemies, to see their health and buffs / de-buffs. To my perspective, they seem to have plenty of action-combat already in-place.
Yeah. I'm equally confused. Maybe they want Wildstar's combat?
Don't know much about ESO, but I've played other games that are considered hybrid like LoL, Guild Wars 2 and Tera. There's lots of games they could take inspiration from, but it doesn't seem like they have any. It's kinda sad actually, creativity and innovation all over the place except when it comes to combat. Best example of what I want from a hybrid system is something like League of Legends. Wide varieties of AoE templates, forward cones, reticle aimed skill shots and/or template skill shots. If you're familiar with Battlerite or V-Rising combat, that would be my dream for an MMO. That's never gonna happen in Ashes though. Maybe one day in another game.
If he was using more template abilities and a more melee-heavy class, it definitely would've been more similar to a pure action combat system.
The combat is more or less like in GW2, without clear ae markers and dodging. Because there is no dodging, which is essential for GW2, Ashes has such static gameplay.
Seems like the action camera is able to fool some PIs into thinking that they are playing action combat, just because they can lock their camera movement to their mouse, lol.🤦
Most action combat players also play tab though.
most tab players also play action though ;3
but the argument is: "If you don't like it, you must be bad at it" which I disagree with T_T
Most MMOs are tab, so that's just fundamentally not true. I doubt they will make the transition to action combat similar to Chiv, Conq Blade, Darkfall etc. I highly doubt they would give the games a chance enough to become good at them and enjoy them.
It's not the same for people who already play these games, because they have probably put many hours into tab titles.
I was happy with the bow aiming in New World alone, I like the direction that Ashes is going already and I like the hybrid I've seen. However, min max will come in and so if its a choice between missing skill shots and hitting 100% of the time. There is no incentive to miss and be a worse player and so tab will be expected.
Which is why I think the incentive needs to be key to making the use of action combat equal with the choice to just do tab and point and click.
Yeah I think of League of Legends, you have auto attacks that are point and click and you don't have to work for them, but you have skill shots. And those skill shots are what I think of in Ashes which I've seen that already, placing reticles for a heal location and the ranger timing shot.
So most ranger abilities would be tab, while most fighter abilities wouldn't require a target and would just cleave whatever's in the path.