Depraved wrote: » not always. have you seen those thay dudes? you kick them in the face and they just smile and come at you like nothing happened xD anyways, you can kill someone irl with 1 blow..but that's not the point. point is you don't have lots of info about a stranger, that's why they are a stranger. you can always have feedback in the game that your attacks did something to your enemy..you know like hit, miss, damage, resisted, etc.
Myosotys wrote: » George_Black wrote: » Target player healthbars dont belong in an open world mmo specially in AoC which uses the flagging/PK system to facilitate open world progress and conflict of interest based PvP. Knowing a target players health can lead to gameplay that's not fun for the defender. If a player battles mobs and an attacker notices his low HP he could lower it to the point where the mobs can deal the final blow and the attacker can claim the dropped items and the area. This is why AoC went with health indicators. The current ones we saw on the latest stream were not good. They will be further worked on since we are still in development. But what is the aim of them? I would argue that there is 0 usage for health indicators as well as health bars for target players. Besides the fact that they are a visual clutter and offer (rightly) unclear target player survivability, a low health indicator makes a target the priority for nuking in organized PvP. We dont need them. A basic nameplay with a "current target" icon to signify that this player is rdy to be hit by your abilities is all it takes in OWpvp. You dont need to know more info. It's not a battleground, nor any other instanced PvP like in other mmos. You either choose to fight an enemy in the open world for gains, or you compromise and move along. If you choose to fight you fight and you either touch the dirt or he does. No health bars. Health indicators? What for? No health indicators. Health bar for sure, or at least a coloured outline (Degraded from green - orange to red for full HP and low HP) If no health bar, then it's better to hide damages too... What's the point of knowing your damage without knowing the ratio of health you take away from your opponent... Maybe you feel that you are destroying him but the guy has a huge amount of HP.
George_Black wrote: » Target player healthbars dont belong in an open world mmo specially in AoC which uses the flagging/PK system to facilitate open world progress and conflict of interest based PvP. Knowing a target players health can lead to gameplay that's not fun for the defender. If a player battles mobs and an attacker notices his low HP he could lower it to the point where the mobs can deal the final blow and the attacker can claim the dropped items and the area. This is why AoC went with health indicators. The current ones we saw on the latest stream were not good. They will be further worked on since we are still in development. But what is the aim of them? I would argue that there is 0 usage for health indicators as well as health bars for target players. Besides the fact that they are a visual clutter and offer (rightly) unclear target player survivability, a low health indicator makes a target the priority for nuking in organized PvP. We dont need them. A basic nameplay with a "current target" icon to signify that this player is rdy to be hit by your abilities is all it takes in OWpvp. You dont need to know more info. It's not a battleground, nor any other instanced PvP like in other mmos. You either choose to fight an enemy in the open world for gains, or you compromise and move along. If you choose to fight you fight and you either touch the dirt or he does. No health bars. Health indicators? What for? No health indicators.
Diamaht wrote: » Depraved wrote: » not always. have you seen those thay dudes? you kick them in the face and they just smile and come at you like nothing happened xD anyways, you can kill someone irl with 1 blow..but that's not the point. point is you don't have lots of info about a stranger, that's why they are a stranger. you can always have feedback in the game that your attacks did something to your enemy..you know like hit, miss, damage, resisted, etc. You're reaching man. I know you guys want the L2 experience entirely back, but you guys are going to have to give some stuff up and adapt. Yes I definetly want info about what I'm doing. What I also want is info about my oponent, that is what we are talking about here, and it doesn't frighten me that he will have that same info about me.
ArnasPanika wrote: » Adapt? Well, you too then 🤭 We want only the pvp side from L2 (because it's being taken directly from L2).
We are adapting that wars and castle sieges will be instanced
ArnasPanika wrote: » Myosotys wrote: » George_Black wrote: » Target player healthbars dont belong in an open world mmo specially in AoC which uses the flagging/PK system to facilitate open world progress and conflict of interest based PvP. Knowing a target players health can lead to gameplay that's not fun for the defender. If a player battles mobs and an attacker notices his low HP he could lower it to the point where the mobs can deal the final blow and the attacker can claim the dropped items and the area. This is why AoC went with health indicators. The current ones we saw on the latest stream were not good. They will be further worked on since we are still in development. But what is the aim of them? I would argue that there is 0 usage for health indicators as well as health bars for target players. Besides the fact that they are a visual clutter and offer (rightly) unclear target player survivability, a low health indicator makes a target the priority for nuking in organized PvP. We dont need them. A basic nameplay with a "current target" icon to signify that this player is rdy to be hit by your abilities is all it takes in OWpvp. You dont need to know more info. It's not a battleground, nor any other instanced PvP like in other mmos. You either choose to fight an enemy in the open world for gains, or you compromise and move along. If you choose to fight you fight and you either touch the dirt or he does. No health bars. Health indicators? What for? No health indicators. Health bar for sure, or at least a coloured outline (Degraded from green - orange to red for full HP and low HP) If no health bar, then it's better to hide damages too... What's the point of knowing your damage without knowing the ratio of health you take away from your opponent... Maybe you feel that you are destroying him but the guy has a huge amount of HP. By actually playing the game you get to know and learn how much HP approximately you will hit a target that is in a range of level 40-48, wearing a Plated Leather set, farming in an x location. Just by seeing a player you will be able to tell his approximate level, his defense or attack possibilities and how many Hurricane spells he would withstand from you if he would be an attack dummy and wouldn't heal himself. All information is in front of you. By finding a player hunting in a specific zone and farming a specific mob you will know what level is he/she without you asking him/her, by seeing his/her equipment you will tell how resilient or not to your attack he/she would be, damn even by seeing what armor/weapon is he/she wearing you will tell his/her class and you will know what magical defense passive skills or physical mitigation that player has. And by being level 48 and hitting someone in your level range for 1200 you will know that fck, if I hit him for 1200 with my specific weapon and skills then he/she is most probably left with less than half of HP and has no magical defense passives or magic resistance increasing items (like jewelry) equipped and if I troll a bit and hit one more spell then that player MIGHT drop dead and I will be PK. Because you will know what average HP that player has even before hitting him/her. I really want to farm in this farming spot (it's the best spot for me right now), but if I shoo him/her by killing him/her and become corrupt then bounty hunters will see me on the world map and even if I've taken the spot I won't for a long time here, because bounty hunters will come and hunt me down. So I COULD get this spot easily, but I don't know/I'm not sure if it's worth it - risk vs reward.
Myosotys wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Myosotys wrote: » George_Black wrote: » Target player healthbars dont belong in an open world mmo specially in AoC which uses the flagging/PK system to facilitate open world progress and conflict of interest based PvP. Knowing a target players health can lead to gameplay that's not fun for the defender. If a player battles mobs and an attacker notices his low HP he could lower it to the point where the mobs can deal the final blow and the attacker can claim the dropped items and the area. This is why AoC went with health indicators. The current ones we saw on the latest stream were not good. They will be further worked on since we are still in development. But what is the aim of them? I would argue that there is 0 usage for health indicators as well as health bars for target players. Besides the fact that they are a visual clutter and offer (rightly) unclear target player survivability, a low health indicator makes a target the priority for nuking in organized PvP. We dont need them. A basic nameplay with a "current target" icon to signify that this player is rdy to be hit by your abilities is all it takes in OWpvp. You dont need to know more info. It's not a battleground, nor any other instanced PvP like in other mmos. You either choose to fight an enemy in the open world for gains, or you compromise and move along. If you choose to fight you fight and you either touch the dirt or he does. No health bars. Health indicators? What for? No health indicators. Health bar for sure, or at least a coloured outline (Degraded from green - orange to red for full HP and low HP) If no health bar, then it's better to hide damages too... What's the point of knowing your damage without knowing the ratio of health you take away from your opponent... Maybe you feel that you are destroying him but the guy has a huge amount of HP. By actually playing the game you get to know and learn how much HP approximately you will hit a target that is in a range of level 40-48, wearing a Plated Leather set, farming in an x location. Just by seeing a player you will be able to tell his approximate level, his defense or attack possibilities and how many Hurricane spells he would withstand from you if he would be an attack dummy and wouldn't heal himself. All information is in front of you. By finding a player hunting in a specific zone and farming a specific mob you will know what level is he/she without you asking him/her, by seeing his/her equipment you will tell how resilient or not to your attack he/she would be, damn even by seeing what armor/weapon is he/she wearing you will tell his/her class and you will know what magical defense passive skills or physical mitigation that player has. And by being level 48 and hitting someone in your level range for 1200 you will know that fck, if I hit him for 1200 with my specific weapon and skills then he/she is most probably left with less than half of HP and has no magical defense passives or magic resistance increasing items (like jewelry) equipped and if I troll a bit and hit one more spell then that player MIGHT drop dead and I will be PK. Because you will know what average HP that player has even before hitting him/her. I really want to farm in this farming spot (it's the best spot for me right now), but if I shoo him/her by killing him/her and become corrupt then bounty hunters will see me on the world map and even if I've taken the spot I won't for a long time here, because bounty hunters will come and hunt me down. So I COULD get this spot easily, but I don't know/I'm not sure if it's worth it - risk vs reward. Ok but why showing the damage and not the health bar ? I could develop exactly the same argument in case devs would want to show the health bar and not the damage instead.
Noaani wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Adapt? Well, you too then 🤭 We want only the pvp side from L2 (because it's being taken directly from L2). Actually, Ashes PvP is not being taken directly from L2 - it is being largely inspired by it. We are adapting that wars and castle sieges will be instanced This is factually incorrect.
ArnasPanika wrote: » Myosotys wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Myosotys wrote: » George_Black wrote: » Target player healthbars dont belong in an open world mmo specially in AoC which uses the flagging/PK system to facilitate open world progress and conflict of interest based PvP. Knowing a target players health can lead to gameplay that's not fun for the defender. If a player battles mobs and an attacker notices his low HP he could lower it to the point where the mobs can deal the final blow and the attacker can claim the dropped items and the area. This is why AoC went with health indicators. The current ones we saw on the latest stream were not good. They will be further worked on since we are still in development. But what is the aim of them? I would argue that there is 0 usage for health indicators as well as health bars for target players. Besides the fact that they are a visual clutter and offer (rightly) unclear target player survivability, a low health indicator makes a target the priority for nuking in organized PvP. We dont need them. A basic nameplay with a "current target" icon to signify that this player is rdy to be hit by your abilities is all it takes in OWpvp. You dont need to know more info. It's not a battleground, nor any other instanced PvP like in other mmos. You either choose to fight an enemy in the open world for gains, or you compromise and move along. If you choose to fight you fight and you either touch the dirt or he does. No health bars. Health indicators? What for? No health indicators. Health bar for sure, or at least a coloured outline (Degraded from green - orange to red for full HP and low HP) If no health bar, then it's better to hide damages too... What's the point of knowing your damage without knowing the ratio of health you take away from your opponent... Maybe you feel that you are destroying him but the guy has a huge amount of HP. By actually playing the game you get to know and learn how much HP approximately you will hit a target that is in a range of level 40-48, wearing a Plated Leather set, farming in an x location. Just by seeing a player you will be able to tell his approximate level, his defense or attack possibilities and how many Hurricane spells he would withstand from you if he would be an attack dummy and wouldn't heal himself. All information is in front of you. By finding a player hunting in a specific zone and farming a specific mob you will know what level is he/she without you asking him/her, by seeing his/her equipment you will tell how resilient or not to your attack he/she would be, damn even by seeing what armor/weapon is he/she wearing you will tell his/her class and you will know what magical defense passive skills or physical mitigation that player has. And by being level 48 and hitting someone in your level range for 1200 you will know that fck, if I hit him for 1200 with my specific weapon and skills then he/she is most probably left with less than half of HP and has no magical defense passives or magic resistance increasing items (like jewelry) equipped and if I troll a bit and hit one more spell then that player MIGHT drop dead and I will be PK. Because you will know what average HP that player has even before hitting him/her. I really want to farm in this farming spot (it's the best spot for me right now), but if I shoo him/her by killing him/her and become corrupt then bounty hunters will see me on the world map and even if I've taken the spot I won't for a long time here, because bounty hunters will come and hunt me down. So I COULD get this spot easily, but I don't know/I'm not sure if it's worth it - risk vs reward. Ok but why showing the damage and not the health bar ? I could develop exactly the same argument in case devs would want to show the health bar and not the damage instead. But they are choosing to show damage and not the health bars, that's the only difference. I mean... I hope 😳
ArnasPanika wrote: » Noaani wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Adapt? Well, you too then 🤭 We want only the pvp side from L2 (because it's being taken directly from L2). Actually, Ashes PvP is not being taken directly from L2 - it is being largely inspired by it. We are adapting that wars and castle sieges will be instanced This is factually incorrect. Don't tell me we will get castles sieges being in an open world! ?😮
Noaani wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Myosotys wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Myosotys wrote: » George_Black wrote: » Target player healthbars dont belong in an open world mmo specially in AoC which uses the flagging/PK system to facilitate open world progress and conflict of interest based PvP. Knowing a target players health can lead to gameplay that's not fun for the defender. If a player battles mobs and an attacker notices his low HP he could lower it to the point where the mobs can deal the final blow and the attacker can claim the dropped items and the area. This is why AoC went with health indicators. The current ones we saw on the latest stream were not good. They will be further worked on since we are still in development. But what is the aim of them? I would argue that there is 0 usage for health indicators as well as health bars for target players. Besides the fact that they are a visual clutter and offer (rightly) unclear target player survivability, a low health indicator makes a target the priority for nuking in organized PvP. We dont need them. A basic nameplay with a "current target" icon to signify that this player is rdy to be hit by your abilities is all it takes in OWpvp. You dont need to know more info. It's not a battleground, nor any other instanced PvP like in other mmos. You either choose to fight an enemy in the open world for gains, or you compromise and move along. If you choose to fight you fight and you either touch the dirt or he does. No health bars. Health indicators? What for? No health indicators. Health bar for sure, or at least a coloured outline (Degraded from green - orange to red for full HP and low HP) If no health bar, then it's better to hide damages too... What's the point of knowing your damage without knowing the ratio of health you take away from your opponent... Maybe you feel that you are destroying him but the guy has a huge amount of HP. By actually playing the game you get to know and learn how much HP approximately you will hit a target that is in a range of level 40-48, wearing a Plated Leather set, farming in an x location. Just by seeing a player you will be able to tell his approximate level, his defense or attack possibilities and how many Hurricane spells he would withstand from you if he would be an attack dummy and wouldn't heal himself. All information is in front of you. By finding a player hunting in a specific zone and farming a specific mob you will know what level is he/she without you asking him/her, by seeing his/her equipment you will tell how resilient or not to your attack he/she would be, damn even by seeing what armor/weapon is he/she wearing you will tell his/her class and you will know what magical defense passive skills or physical mitigation that player has. And by being level 48 and hitting someone in your level range for 1200 you will know that fck, if I hit him for 1200 with my specific weapon and skills then he/she is most probably left with less than half of HP and has no magical defense passives or magic resistance increasing items (like jewelry) equipped and if I troll a bit and hit one more spell then that player MIGHT drop dead and I will be PK. Because you will know what average HP that player has even before hitting him/her. I really want to farm in this farming spot (it's the best spot for me right now), but if I shoo him/her by killing him/her and become corrupt then bounty hunters will see me on the world map and even if I've taken the spot I won't for a long time here, because bounty hunters will come and hunt me down. So I COULD get this spot easily, but I don't know/I'm not sure if it's worth it - risk vs reward. Ok but why showing the damage and not the health bar ? I could develop exactly the same argument in case devs would want to show the health bar and not the damage instead. But they are choosing to show damage and not the health bars, that's the only difference. I mean... I hope 😳 They are chosing to show health bars. This has been the plan for years. They are segmented health bars rather than percentage health bars - but the plan has been to have them for actual years. The closest thing to a comment supporting what you are saying was when Intrepid said you can not see EXACT health values unless you are in a group, raid, guild or alliance with the character in question. The segmented health bars do not show exact values - which is why that comment was made.
ArnasPanika wrote: » Noaani wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Myosotys wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Myosotys wrote: » George_Black wrote: » Target player healthbars dont belong in an open world mmo specially in AoC which uses the flagging/PK system to facilitate open world progress and conflict of interest based PvP. Knowing a target players health can lead to gameplay that's not fun for the defender. If a player battles mobs and an attacker notices his low HP he could lower it to the point where the mobs can deal the final blow and the attacker can claim the dropped items and the area. This is why AoC went with health indicators. The current ones we saw on the latest stream were not good. They will be further worked on since we are still in development. But what is the aim of them? I would argue that there is 0 usage for health indicators as well as health bars for target players. Besides the fact that they are a visual clutter and offer (rightly) unclear target player survivability, a low health indicator makes a target the priority for nuking in organized PvP. We dont need them. A basic nameplay with a "current target" icon to signify that this player is rdy to be hit by your abilities is all it takes in OWpvp. You dont need to know more info. It's not a battleground, nor any other instanced PvP like in other mmos. You either choose to fight an enemy in the open world for gains, or you compromise and move along. If you choose to fight you fight and you either touch the dirt or he does. No health bars. Health indicators? What for? No health indicators. Health bar for sure, or at least a coloured outline (Degraded from green - orange to red for full HP and low HP) If no health bar, then it's better to hide damages too... What's the point of knowing your damage without knowing the ratio of health you take away from your opponent... Maybe you feel that you are destroying him but the guy has a huge amount of HP. By actually playing the game you get to know and learn how much HP approximately you will hit a target that is in a range of level 40-48, wearing a Plated Leather set, farming in an x location. Just by seeing a player you will be able to tell his approximate level, his defense or attack possibilities and how many Hurricane spells he would withstand from you if he would be an attack dummy and wouldn't heal himself. All information is in front of you. By finding a player hunting in a specific zone and farming a specific mob you will know what level is he/she without you asking him/her, by seeing his/her equipment you will tell how resilient or not to your attack he/she would be, damn even by seeing what armor/weapon is he/she wearing you will tell his/her class and you will know what magical defense passive skills or physical mitigation that player has. And by being level 48 and hitting someone in your level range for 1200 you will know that fck, if I hit him for 1200 with my specific weapon and skills then he/she is most probably left with less than half of HP and has no magical defense passives or magic resistance increasing items (like jewelry) equipped and if I troll a bit and hit one more spell then that player MIGHT drop dead and I will be PK. Because you will know what average HP that player has even before hitting him/her. I really want to farm in this farming spot (it's the best spot for me right now), but if I shoo him/her by killing him/her and become corrupt then bounty hunters will see me on the world map and even if I've taken the spot I won't for a long time here, because bounty hunters will come and hunt me down. So I COULD get this spot easily, but I don't know/I'm not sure if it's worth it - risk vs reward. Ok but why showing the damage and not the health bar ? I could develop exactly the same argument in case devs would want to show the health bar and not the damage instead. But they are choosing to show damage and not the health bars, that's the only difference. I mean... I hope 😳 They are chosing to show health bars. This has been the plan for years. They are segmented health bars rather than percentage health bars - but the plan has been to have them for actual years. The closest thing to a comment supporting what you are saying was when Intrepid said you can not see EXACT health values unless you are in a group, raid, guild or alliance with the character in question. The segmented health bars do not show exact values - which is why that comment was made. oh wow, then in this case I am absolutely uneducated on this matter and I can go and be sad alone about the learnt truth.. 😔
Diamaht wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Noaani wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Myosotys wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Myosotys wrote: » George_Black wrote: » Target player healthbars dont belong in an open world mmo specially in AoC which uses the flagging/PK system to facilitate open world progress and conflict of interest based PvP. Knowing a target players health can lead to gameplay that's not fun for the defender. If a player battles mobs and an attacker notices his low HP he could lower it to the point where the mobs can deal the final blow and the attacker can claim the dropped items and the area. This is why AoC went with health indicators. The current ones we saw on the latest stream were not good. They will be further worked on since we are still in development. But what is the aim of them? I would argue that there is 0 usage for health indicators as well as health bars for target players. Besides the fact that they are a visual clutter and offer (rightly) unclear target player survivability, a low health indicator makes a target the priority for nuking in organized PvP. We dont need them. A basic nameplay with a "current target" icon to signify that this player is rdy to be hit by your abilities is all it takes in OWpvp. You dont need to know more info. It's not a battleground, nor any other instanced PvP like in other mmos. You either choose to fight an enemy in the open world for gains, or you compromise and move along. If you choose to fight you fight and you either touch the dirt or he does. No health bars. Health indicators? What for? No health indicators. Health bar for sure, or at least a coloured outline (Degraded from green - orange to red for full HP and low HP) If no health bar, then it's better to hide damages too... What's the point of knowing your damage without knowing the ratio of health you take away from your opponent... Maybe you feel that you are destroying him but the guy has a huge amount of HP. By actually playing the game you get to know and learn how much HP approximately you will hit a target that is in a range of level 40-48, wearing a Plated Leather set, farming in an x location. Just by seeing a player you will be able to tell his approximate level, his defense or attack possibilities and how many Hurricane spells he would withstand from you if he would be an attack dummy and wouldn't heal himself. All information is in front of you. By finding a player hunting in a specific zone and farming a specific mob you will know what level is he/she without you asking him/her, by seeing his/her equipment you will tell how resilient or not to your attack he/she would be, damn even by seeing what armor/weapon is he/she wearing you will tell his/her class and you will know what magical defense passive skills or physical mitigation that player has. And by being level 48 and hitting someone in your level range for 1200 you will know that fck, if I hit him for 1200 with my specific weapon and skills then he/she is most probably left with less than half of HP and has no magical defense passives or magic resistance increasing items (like jewelry) equipped and if I troll a bit and hit one more spell then that player MIGHT drop dead and I will be PK. Because you will know what average HP that player has even before hitting him/her. I really want to farm in this farming spot (it's the best spot for me right now), but if I shoo him/her by killing him/her and become corrupt then bounty hunters will see me on the world map and even if I've taken the spot I won't for a long time here, because bounty hunters will come and hunt me down. So I COULD get this spot easily, but I don't know/I'm not sure if it's worth it - risk vs reward. Ok but why showing the damage and not the health bar ? I could develop exactly the same argument in case devs would want to show the health bar and not the damage instead. But they are choosing to show damage and not the health bars, that's the only difference. I mean... I hope 😳 They are chosing to show health bars. This has been the plan for years. They are segmented health bars rather than percentage health bars - but the plan has been to have them for actual years. The closest thing to a comment supporting what you are saying was when Intrepid said you can not see EXACT health values unless you are in a group, raid, guild or alliance with the character in question. The segmented health bars do not show exact values - which is why that comment was made. oh wow, then in this case I am absolutely uneducated on this matter and I can go and be sad alone about the learnt truth.. 😔 No need. Be excited, you're getting open world, organized pvp back. All you lost were teleporters and bars. Add to that Naval combat. It's gonna be great!
ArnasPanika wrote: » Not showing your enemies HP was sometimes even the core of the whole flagging system
Noaani wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Not showing your enemies HP was sometimes even the core of the whole flagging system Yeah, but showing it means players can make more informed decisions - and since a game is nothing more than a scenario in which players make decisions and then see the results of them, enabling players to make more informed decisions can only ever be a good thing.
Summpwner wrote: » @Saabynator it'd be completely unusable in a fight with more than 5 participants and would be identical to "no bars" but with extra textures and effects loaded and rendered.
ArnasPanika wrote: » Noaani wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Not showing your enemies HP was sometimes even the core of the whole flagging system Yeah, but showing it means players can make more informed decisions - and since a game is nothing more than a scenario in which players make decisions and then see the results of them, enabling players to make more informed decisions can only ever be a good thing. But if this is true universally and having HP bars is always better in mmorpg in any system then why other games developers intentionally did the opposite?
Noaani wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Noaani wrote: » ArnasPanika wrote: » Not showing your enemies HP was sometimes even the core of the whole flagging system Yeah, but showing it means players can make more informed decisions - and since a game is nothing more than a scenario in which players make decisions and then see the results of them, enabling players to make more informed decisions can only ever be a good thing. But if this is true universally and having HP bars is always better in mmorpg in any system then why other games developers intentionally did the opposite? There are very few MMORPG's that have not shown player health to other players. As to a reason why - not all game developers make the correct decisions every time. Also, WoW is fairly competitive - it's just that the bulk of that competition isn't PvP related. The problem I am seeing in this thread is the idea that being able to see player health was a part of L2's flagging system. It wasn't. If you wish to believe that it was, then just work on the notion that Ashes flagging system is more from Archeage than L2, as you could see player health in that game (you could see actual number of HP an opponent had).
ArnasPanika wrote: » How many games in the past or now uses flagging system like L2?
Anyway, how is wow competitive?
