DPS Meter Megathread

This discussion was created from comments split from: DPS Meter Megathread.

I’ve instructed the mods to focus any dps meter threads into a single mega thread to help focus and centralize the discussion 👍

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Veil Mistwarden

DPS Meters have always been a crutch, not a tool to "help you improve"

If you can't tell how fast things are dying based off your own Cooldowns...then you're doing it wrong.

Noaani

Veil Mistwarden wrote: »

DPS Meters have always been a crutch, not a tool to "help you improve"

If you can't tell how fast things are dying based off your own Cooldowns...then you're doing it wrong.

This is probably the most simplistic, ill considered opinion on this topic.

If you think knowing how fast a mob dies is a substitute for a combat tracker, you do not know what a combat tracker does.

This seems to be a common theme with most people that call them DPS meters - including the OP of this thread.

abc0815

For alpha testing knowing numbers and "stuff" seems kinda important. As for the released game i don't really care since i don't consider it a must have feature.

Nightmarelol

There needs to be a DPS Meter and same as WoW you can even have different tabs for Healing (HPS) and even Interrupts/Silences or Kicks. This is just common sense tbh and it’s kinda essential for a PvX game such as AOC.

Mico

It seems like in today's MMO party structures, the type of job class you are doesn't matter as much when composing a party as its ranking within the meters.

Before DPS/healing metering, team composition was based on what job classes you already had in your party and what class best filled the missing gaps in your team comp (based on spells/skills/abilities). Nowadays, we fill those gaps based on rankings within the metering system, with no real regard to their actual job class.

So my question is: Which do you rather prefer when forming a party, valuing job classes based on their available sets of skills, spells, and abilities, OR classes being valued based on their meter outputs?

In simpler terms: should ashes have DPS/Heals output meters?

Depraved

Mico wrote: »

It seems like in today's MMO party structures, the type of job class you are doesn't matter as much when composing a party as its ranking within the meters.

Before DPS/healing metering, team composition was based on what job classes you already had in your party and what class best filled the missing gaps in your team comp (based on spells/skills/abilities). Nowadays, we fill those gaps based on rankings within the metering system, with no real regard to their actual job class.

So my question is: Which do you rather prefer when forming a party, valuing job classes based on their available sets of skills, spells, and abilities, OR classes being valued based on their meter outputs?

well, the meter can help you determine which build does the most damage, however, I think they can also backfire.

also, you arent always just standing there dpsing. maybe build a does more dps, but since you have to move around all the time in PVP you might wanna use build b, just hit and run do more burst instead of sustained dps.

i prefer valuing classes on their set of skills and overall strategy. like maybe we want an aoe party full of mages, or just a single target hit and run with just archers, or maybe one of each class for the dungeons. etc etc.

Nerror

Oh man. There is a megathread for DPS meters, if you want to spend the next several hours reading: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/45612/dps-meter-megathread/p1

Steven's current take is that Ashes won't have DPS meters. I hope he sticks to it.

Mico

Thanks for the link! Didn't know about it.

Yeah, I can see the benefits of meters so that you can hone your skills in a class, but I also feel that they completely take away the focus of the class itself, and just put the onus on the numbers instead. It also kills the vibe of the game's immersion.

Apok

this is usually handled through 3rd party parsing programs, they'll exist weather or not the devs want them or not. No they don't ruin the game they give you a great example if someones trying hard, being relaxed or just slacking off.

FFXIV's content is real slow on delivery and consumed rather quickly so they make your final tier of endgame extremely tight on the dps and healing checks. that being said having whatever parses as the best DPS isn't gonna make or break a fight. What determines if you win or not is your overall player skill, DPS doesn't mean anything if you can't dodge AOEs that can normally be dodged or maybe you have a bad rotation and you're just not bringing out the most of your class kit.

The issue that comes up with parsing mainly in FFXIV is the low tier stuff, running 4man dungeons for currency and people will parse the randoms in there sometimes, and the randos will get shit on for not keeping up.

I'm a little mixed on this cause as a Healer who tries to push as much DPS as possible while healing just enough to make sure no one ever dies it kinda irks me when I see healers who are setup to just overheal and be as lazy as possible.

You can always make the argument that "you don't pay my sub" but at the same time when you join up for group play their time spent is on the line and anyone with any dignity will value their time, and to waste other people's time, by giving a bare minimum effort kinda offends me. Kinda in the same way it offends me when people try to tell me how to play, so this argument really goes both ways.

Only thing I can say is don't be a dick and expect people to play the way you want them to play, but at the same time don't be lazy and waste people's time with a bare minimum effort

Vaknar

Going to merge a DPS meter conversation into here

Depraved

Vaknar wrote: »

Going to merge a DPS meter conversation into here

noooooooooooooooo, this thread was finally dead for good. what have you done vaknar, what have you done? T__T
that was borderline evil

Vaknar

Depraved wrote: »

Vaknar wrote: »

Going to merge a DPS meter conversation into here

noooooooooooooooo, this thread was finally dead for good. what have you done vaknar, what have you done? T__T
that was borderline evil

Xeeg

Veil Mistwarden wrote: »

DPS Meters have always been a crutch, not a tool to "help you improve"

If you can't tell how fast things are dying based off your own Cooldowns...then you're doing it wrong.

Here is a cool skill from Assassination Rogue in WOW. It's at the bottom of the rogue tree, so its probably good, but there are a few other good options. How much damage do you think this skill can do over its full length?

nanfoodle

No to a DPS meter. Last time I say anything on this topic. I get people will use 3rd party websites for this. FYI I will report every person I know that does.

Solvryn

Xeeg wrote: »

My opinion this whole time is that if you can't detect it and you can't stop it, then the game designers should embrace it and employ it in their game design. Otherwise, the rules only serve to disadvantage people who follow rules. That's a terrible way to create a rule set and is a failure point in the game design.

Don’t worry about it there’s a spoonful of data professionals here that actually can accurately disseminate data into anything meaningful. That will play this game, at least.

Most people barely understand the visualizations they’re seeing, so let them yammer on about it.

Noaani

Mico wrote: »

It seems like in today's MMO party structures, the type of job class you are doesn't matter as much when composing a party as its ranking within the meters.

Before DPS/healing metering, team composition was based on what job classes you already had in your party and what class best filled the missing gaps in your team comp (based on spells/skills/abilities). Nowadays, we fill those gaps based on rankings within the metering system, with no real regard to their actual job class.

So my question is: Which do you rather prefer when forming a party, valuing job classes based on their available sets of skills, spells, and abilities, OR classes being valued based on their meter outputs?

In simpler terms: should ashes have DPS/Heals output meters?

In my experience, this only holds true in WoW - and it only holds true there because that is what the developers want.

In WoW, they want all DPS to be interchangeable with each other. They want all tanks to be viable in all situations, they want all healers to be able to main heal on a raid.

What this allows them to do is to half arse balance. If the "top tier" DPS is t dealing the damage it should, it doesn't matter, it just means some other class is top tier damage now. Same with tanks - instead of then saying a specific build of a specific class is supposed to be the main tank on raids, if they happen to miss thst mark with balance, guilds can just take along what ever build is best.

Essentially, the "all DPS are interchangeable" thing is a mechanism to give developers an easier job, it isn't a result of combat trackers.

It is also worth pointing out that you commented about "Before DPS/healing meterin", but this isn't really a valid time period. People were parsing MUD's back in the very early 90's, Meridian59 had a basic combat tracker before it hit live, WoW had trackers during the games initial beta. There is no scope to talk about "before trackers", because that is not a time that existed.

What did exist is a "time before you were made aware of meters", but that is about it.

Xeeg

Noaani wrote: »

It is also worth pointing out that you commented about "Before DPS/healing meterin", but this isn't really a valid time period. People were parsing MUD's back in the very early 90's, Meridian59 had a basic combat tracker before it hit live, WoW had trackers during the games initial beta. There is no scope to talk about "before trackers", because that is not a time that existed.

What did exist is a "time before you were made aware of meters", but that is about it.

Here is a screencap of a MUD that i used to play, and we had this combat tracker in the 90s..

We didn't call it DPS, we called it Damage Per Round. And it would be different on every monster because of their Armour Class and Dodge vs your Accuracy stat.

Being able to see what items boosted your rounds is huge. That +1 crit ring might actually be stronger than the +5 accuracy ring, versus certain monsters. The only way to know that was to loop the area for hours until your round averages were calculated.

Apok

nanfoodle wrote: »

No to a DPS meter. Last time I say anything on this topic. I get people will use 3rd party websites for this. FYI I will report every person I know that does.

What's wrong with people knowing how bad you are?

Jwscoot

Apok wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

No to a DPS meter. Last time I say anything on this topic. I get people will use 3rd party websites for this. FYI I will report every person I know that does.

What's wrong with people knowing how bad you are?

Literally laughed at this for 20 minutes!

You don't even have the DPS meter and it's already making you unbearably toxic. I have never seen someone so succinctly disprove their own point. I wasn't part of this conversation and as PVPer I don't really care either way, but for some reason I found that incredibly funny. It was like the PVE nerd equivalent of "get gud scrub".

Noaani

Jwscoot wrote: »

Apok wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

No to a DPS meter. Last time I say anything on this topic. I get people will use 3rd party websites for this. FYI I will report every person I know that does.

What's wrong with people knowing how bad you are?

Literally laughed at this for 20 minutes!

You don't even have the DPS meter and it's already making you unbearably toxic.

These two comments together kind of don't make sense.

Apok made a joke. You laughed at it. Why is that toxic?

Laughter is good. Laugh more.

Laughing is not toxic. Intentionally making people laugh is not toxic.

Calling people toxic when they are not is being toxic.

Stop being toxic.

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