Battlepass in MMOs

State your opinion, I'll start with mine

They're dumb they are meant for repetitive games like shooters, they give you something to do in a games that are arena pvp weather it be a MOBA or Shooter. MMOs are supposed to keep you busy. adding chores on top of that for things I should just be able to work for tends to leave a bad taste in mouth.

Also the monetization of it is kind of dumb as well. FFXIV and WoW have raked in large amounts of money just doing cosmetics on the shop, do that without the predatory fear of missing out.

One other argument for me was when I was playing NW I wanted to support the game, I bought up dyes and emotes and spent more money on that game then I have any other game as far as cosmetics, I supported it because it was simple and clean way for them to make extra money. I stopped giving them my money after they started doing the battlepass. It even made me not care about collecting all the emotes anymore. It wasn't even to protest, I just stopped caring.

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Mag7spy

You can Yap all you want @Noaani

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

You can Yap all you want @Noaani

Sorry, without proper quoting giving me the ability to check context, I am unable to reply to this other than by stating I still aren't saying "battlepass will become loot boxes".

That said, if you keep going, you may eventually stumble on the post where I say something that specifically dictates that I am not saying that battlepass will become lootboxes.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Why are you coming on a forum to straight up lie?

You claimed that I said "battlepasses are going to become loot boxes", and as proof of me saying that you posted me saying that they are going to randomize rewards for battlepass.

Great work, champ!

This is why i think arguing this with you is a joke and why you are here to win a conversation not have one. I hoped I helped you open your eyes a little bit at the very least. Its never too late to admit you were wrong or take it back and show some self reflection.

Keep in mind - you are the one that has been banging on about me saying something I didn't say.

I've been trying to tell you that I didn't say that thing, and when you finally decided that you had to show where I posted it in order to save face, you put up a post where I specifically wasn't saying the thing you had been claiming I said.

You can sit there are claim arguing with me is a joke, but all I have been doing for the last while is trying to get you to drop the misconception you had about what I said.

When you are so stuck in trying to "win" you are now ignoring things you have said. The entire point about the ridiculous loot box direction came from you with this post. Trying to suggest fear of battle passes changing back into loot boxes.

Just checking - you are saying the threads direction about loot boxes comes from my post above, the one where I specifically quote you talking about loot boxes?

It didn't come from you mentioning them, but from me replying to you mentioning them?

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

You can Yap all you want @Noaani

Sorry, without proper quoting giving me the ability to check context, I am unable to reply to this other than by stating I still aren't saying "battlepass will become loot boxes".

That said, if you keep going, you may eventually stumble on the post where I say something that specifically dictates that I am not saying that battlepass will become lootboxes.

You are a expect level yapper for sure, you can keep trying to ignore it. You are the one that created this context on loot boxes being intwined with battepass talk. Derailing + irrelevant information and you still can't take accountability for it lmao.

Your post contraindicates anything you are saying so it doesn't really matter. Moment you talked about randomized items in a battle pass means a loot box. Doesn't matter how you twist it.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Moment you talked about randomized items in a battle pass means a loot box. Doesn't matter how you twist it.

If that is the opinion you want to have, then that is your opinion.

It is not, however, my opinion - nor is it what I said.

As I said earlier in this thread, there have been rulings in the EU against loot boxes with comments specifically about there being no gameplay at all involved.

Battlepass has gameplay involved, thus as long as that gameplay element remains, battlepass is simply not a lootbox.

If you want to ignore that fact and have the opinion that a battlepass with randomized rewards is a lootbox, that's fine. I'm not going to stop you having that opinion.

However, once again, it is not what I said, as it is not an opinion that I hold. As long as battlepass has that gameplay element, it is, in my opinion, unable to be considered a loot box.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Moment you talked about randomized items in a battle pass means a loot box. Doesn't matter how you twist it.

If that is the opinion you want to have, then that is your opinion.

It is not, however, my opinion - nor is it what I said.

As I said earlier in this thread, there have been rulings in the EU against loot boxes with comments specifically about there being no gameplay at all involved.

Battlepass has gameplay involved, thus as long as that gameplay element remains, battlepass is simply not a lootbox.

If you want to ignore that fact and have the opinion that a battlepass with randomized rewards is a lootbox, that's fine. I'm not going to stop you having that opinion.

However, once again, it is not what I said, as it is not an opinion that I hold. As long as battlepass has that gameplay element, it is, in my opinion, unable to be considered a loot box.

ITs sad when u get the receipts posted on you and you are still trying to play semantics and saying its not a loot box. That is why arguing with you is a joke you only care about "winning"

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

ITs sad when u get the receipts posted on you and you are still trying to play semantics and saying its not a loot box. That is why arguing with you is a joke you only care about "winning"

Dude, those "recipts" were from the wrong store.

Again, it's you that things a battlepass would be a lootbox when they start randomizing some of the rewards, not me. That is why I didn't say that is what they would be - but you just refused to actually read what I wrote and instead overlayed your own opinion over top of it to come to your own conclusion as to what you think I said, rather than actually listening.

I don't know how many times I need to say it, but I did not say that battlepass will become loot boxes - I said battlepass will get some rewards randomized in the future.

It isn't possible for you to *not* get it at this point. You are simply carrying on to save face - but you know full well that I will not leave your bullshit unchallenged.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

ITs sad when u get the receipts posted on you and you are still trying to play semantics and saying its not a loot box. That is why arguing with you is a joke you only care about "winning"

Dude, those "recipts" were from the wrong store.

Again, it's you that things a battlepass would be a lootbox when they start randomizing some of the rewards, not me. That is why I didn't say that is what they would be - but you just refused to actually read what I wrote and instead overlayed your own opinion over top of it to come to your own conclusion as to what you think I said, rather than actually listening.

I don't know how many times I need to say it, but I did not say that battlepass will become loot boxes - I said battlepass will get some rewards randomized in the future.

It isn't possible for you to *not* get it at this point. You are simply carrying on to save face - but you know full well that I will not leave your bullshit unchallenged.

It doesn't matter how much you try to yap your way out. You are saying battle passes will have random rewards which is a loot box at that point. Again you are stuck on winning so hard you can't accept the fact. And will play semantics the entire time. What you are describing is a loot box, it isn't too late to show me you can learn and swallow your pride, and accept the fact you are having bad take.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

It doesn't matter how much you try to yap your way out. You are saying battle passes will have random rewards which is a loot box at that point.

No it isn't, a lootbox has no gameplay attached to it, a battlepass does.

You are free to not make the distinction between the two, but as you know that I do make that distinction. As such, you are not free to put words in my mouth that you know I did not say - not without it being challenged.

As long as I am able to post here, you will not have a post up that I have seen and that misrepresents something I have said, that I do not directly challenge.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

It doesn't matter how much you try to yap your way out. You are saying battle passes will have random rewards which is a loot box at that point.

No it isn't, a lootbox has no gameplay attached to it, a battlepass does.

You are free to not make the distinction between the two, but as you know that I do make that distinction. As such, you are not free to put words in my mouth that you know I did not say - not without it being challenged.

As long as I am able to post here, you will not have a post up that I have seen and that misrepresents something I have said, that I do not directly challenge.

Think Noaani, think. You are literally a battle pass with is a list of items which a lot box can have a list of items, that is random. And saying a battlepass that gives you a random item out of that array is not a loot box. Because you are playing the GAME. When in almost all games that had lot boxes you could play to earn the item.

There is no different in that you need to play, earn or pay it still is a loot box just a different way to obtain it lmao.

Anyone here can see you are having one of the worst takes ever to be honest. You are making things up and saying "misrepresentation" because you are trying to badly to "win". And digging yourself in a deeper hole. Im legit lmao right now, this can't be real.

You really trying to die on a hill that on gameplay needs to be attached to justify it as a lot box. Looking back to overwatch playing he game and leveling in general would get you loot boxes. A BP in AoC from just playing the game to level it up without following any weekly task would be no different.

No way i can look at your arguments the same ever again if you are being serious right now. That or you seriously don't know what a BP is or even loot boxes and the different kinds or ways to earn them. AkA you literally don't play games.

Mag7spy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EtHoMPVSQ4

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

It doesn't matter how much you try to yap your way out. You are saying battle passes will have random rewards which is a loot box at that point.

No it isn't, a lootbox has no gameplay attached to it, a battlepass does.

You are free to not make the distinction between the two, but as you know that I do make that distinction. As such, you are not free to put words in my mouth that you know I did not say - not without it being challenged.

As long as I am able to post here, you will not have a post up that I have seen and that misrepresents something I have said, that I do not directly challenge.

Think Noaani, think. You are literally a battle pass with is a list of items which a lot box can have a list of items, that is random. And saying a battlepass that gives you a random item out of that array is not a loot box. Because you are playing the GAME. When in almost all games that had lot boxes you could play to earn the item.

Once again, if you want to have that opinion, you are welcome to it, I'm not actually going to try to convince you otherwise.

All I am saying is that you having the opinion that the above would make battlepass a lootbox does not mean you can go around saying that people said things they did not say - even if you think that the sum of what they said is what you are saying.

Again, you claimed I said (not implied, not inferred, not suggested - said) that battlepass was turning in to loot boxes. When asked where I said that, you could not produce a quote because I did not say it - I said something that your opinion lead you to believe that I said that battlepass was turning in to loot boxes.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

It doesn't matter how much you try to yap your way out. You are saying battle passes will have random rewards which is a loot box at that point.

No it isn't, a lootbox has no gameplay attached to it, a battlepass does.

You are free to not make the distinction between the two, but as you know that I do make that distinction. As such, you are not free to put words in my mouth that you know I did not say - not without it being challenged.

As long as I am able to post here, you will not have a post up that I have seen and that misrepresents something I have said, that I do not directly challenge.

Think Noaani, think. You are literally a battle pass with is a list of items which a lot box can have a list of items, that is random. And saying a battlepass that gives you a random item out of that array is not a loot box. Because you are playing the GAME. When in almost all games that had lot boxes you could play to earn the item.

Once again, if you want to have that opinion, you are welcome to it, I'm not actually going to try to convince you otherwise.

All I am saying is that you having the opinion that the above would make battlepass a lootbox does not mean you can go around saying that people said things they did not say - even if you think that the sum of what they said is what you are saying.

Again, you claimed I said (not implied, not inferred, not suggested - said) that battlepass was turning in to loot boxes. When asked where I said that, you could not produce a quote because I did not say it - I said something that your opinion lead you to believe that I said that battlepass was turning in to loot boxes.

That is a loot box that is not an opinion. Loot box is not defined how you get it, it is how it functions which is a array of items which you get one / multiple at random.

The longer you stick with this the more you are exposing yourself as someone who only cares about winning. And doesn't care about conversation. You way to use semantics till you get your way, the same way you were throwing a Temper Tantrums earlier.

You can not redefine what a loot box is with any kind of semantics, so again you will only dig yourself a bigger whole. For you to say a battle pass giving random items is you saying for them to be turning into loot boxes as they become the same functioning thing.

And the whole reason i said all you want to do is derail the thread, because i knew you try to argue some nonsense like this. No i don't blame anyone for no wanting to deal with you.

Receipts, video evidence and you still are trying to ignore it.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

That is a loot box that is not an opinion. Loot box is not defined how you get it, it is how it functions which is a array of items which you get one / multiple at random.

The reason I am not using your definition here is because that includes mob dropped loot.

Thus, we inherently have different definitions of what a loot box is - which is why I didn't say that battlepass is becoming lootboxes.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

That is a loot box that is not an opinion. Loot box is not defined how you get it, it is how it functions which is a array of items which you get one / multiple at random.

The reason I am not using your definition here is because that includes mob dropped loot.

Thus, we inherently have different definitions of what a loot box is - which is why I didn't say that battlepass is becoming lootboxes.

Again you are just trying to dig yourself a deeper hole, mobs dropping loot has nothing to do with anything. I have no clue what you are trying to trample down on this. This moment you have a way that is rng / gambling to get items is a loot box. You already stated yourself about gambling and them trying to make this the next evolution (which is bs imo as its just a loot box reskinned and not a evolution of anything).

The fact you are trying to talk about mobs dropping loot (when no one mentioned this at all) shows you are trying to further derail and muddy the disccusion to try to convolute it further to avoid criticism of having a bad take.

There is one definition of a loot box, box or whatever that gives you random items / items. You are trying to redefine the definition because you can't stomach the fact you have a bad take.

If you get a loot box and it gives you a random item that is a loot box. If you open a battle pass get a level and you get a random item from the available rewards that is a loot box.

Is this the part where you quadruple down now, this is really what you are trying to die on a hill for to try to say a loot box is not a loot box?

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

That is a loot box that is not an opinion. Loot box is not defined how you get it, it is how it functions which is a array of items which you get one / multiple at random.

The reason I am not using your definition here is because that includes mob dropped loot.

Thus, we inherently have different definitions of what a loot box is - which is why I didn't say that battlepass is becoming lootboxes.

Again you are just trying to dig yourself a deeper hole, mobs dropping loot has nothing to do with anything.

I agree, it doesn't.

That is why I don't use the definition you gave above - that definition includes mobs dropping loot.

You even double down in your above post and say the moment you have a way that is rng / gambling to get items, it is a loot box.

Mob drops are randomly selected from a list of items, thus fir in to your definition, which is why I don't use that definition for loot boxes

I'm not mentioning mob dropped loot as an additional factor to this discussion, I am saying that we both agree that isn't a loot box, thus in my opinion any definition of a loot box needs to exclude mob dropped loot. Your definition as stated doesn't seem to exclude that.

If you agree that mob dropped loot has nothing to do with this discussion, then surely you would want a definition of loot boxes that doesn't include mob dropped loot.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

That is a loot box that is not an opinion. Loot box is not defined how you get it, it is how it functions which is a array of items which you get one / multiple at random.

The reason I am not using your definition here is because that includes mob dropped loot.

Thus, we inherently have different definitions of what a loot box is - which is why I didn't say that battlepass is becoming lootboxes.

Again you are just trying to dig yourself a deeper hole, mobs dropping loot has nothing to do with anything.

I agree, it doesn't.

That is why I don't use the definition you gave above - that definition includes mobs dropping loot.

You even double down in your above post and say the moment you have a way that is rng / gambling to get items, it is a loot box.

Mob drops are randomly selected from a list of items, thus fir in to your definition, which is why I don't use that definition for loot boxes

I'm not mentioning mob dropped loot as an additional factor to this discussion, I am saying that we both agree that isn't a loot box, thus in my opinion any definition of a loot box needs to exclude mob dropped loot. Your definition as stated doesn't seem to exclude that.

If you agree that mob dropped loot has nothing to do with this discussion, then surely you would want a definition of loot boxes that doesn't include mob dropped loot.

When you are so deep you are at the point where you are making things up in the argument now. After having just been called out on it again you are talking about mobs dropping loot and trying to compare it. as if that is going to help you get out of a hole.

The moment you talk about monetization from a loot box (be it free or premium, etc) you can not redefine it. Everyone fully knows it is a loot box of premium style items p2w or cosmetic that is outside the normal scope of the game on being able to obtain unless you have access to the battle pass or a form of way to earn loot boxes. You can't compare normal gameplay and say because its not called a loot box you can use that logic yourself.

Effectively you are trying to weaponize your own ignorance to try to justify your non existent point. So pretty much you really are just trolling on the forums.

Any person understands the different between a loot box, card pack, or whatever name a develop decides to use, and the difference between killing mobs and getting items from them and the grind around it in some cases.

So really what you are telling me is you really don't understand the difference with context between loot boxes and mobs. Which means if your understanding is that lacking why are you here arguing on the forums?

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

The moment you talk about monetization from a loot box (be it free or premium, etc) you can not redefine it.

Cool, but your definitions that you have given did not specify monetization.

That is why I said the definitions you have given would include mob dropped loot - something we both agree aren't a part of this discussion. Us agreeing that it isn't a part of this discussion means if you are going to try and define what a loot box is, it needs to exclude mob dropped loot. Basically, I am pointing out that your definition is not complete.

Keep in mind, *I* am not attempting to define what a loot box is - you are. I am simply saying that battlepass with some randomized rewards is not something that I would consider to be a loot box.

You want to argue that "we all know what a loot box or card pack is". My argument would be that we also know what a battlepass is - even if they randomize some of the rewards.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

The moment you talk about monetization from a loot box (be it free or premium, etc) you can not redefine it.

Cool, but your definitions that you have given did not specify monetization.

That is why I said the definitions you have given would include mob dropped loot - something we both agree aren't a part of this discussion. Us agreeing that it isn't a part of this discussion means if you are going to try and define what a loot box is, it needs to exclude mob dropped loot. Basically, I am pointing out that your definition is not complete.

Keep in mind, *I* am not attempting to define what a loot box is - you are. I am simply saying that battlepass with some randomized rewards is not something that I would consider to be a loot box.

You want to argue that "we all know what a loot box or card pack is". My argument would be that we also know what a battlepass is - even if they randomize some of the rewards.

Its not my definition so you can stop saying that, half this conversation is you trying to change its direction or add weird elements to it. To further derail thread and muddy the topic.

The only one trying to change the definition of a loot box would be you, trying to find a out to weasel away in. If Battlepass randomized items it is now a loot box, which at that point there is no reason to call it a battlepass because its function no longer matches industry standard as a battlepass. What matters is how does a battle pass and loot box give items to players. IE if its RNG its the standard for loot boxes. Which means you are buying a bundle of paid / earnable loot boxes

You can not change the definition because you want to "win". Semantic arguments just make you look silly in this kind of conversation, as it doesn't even hold weight at all since there is clear guidelines set for both BP + loot boxes.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

You can not change the definition because you want to "win".

Noaani wrote: »

Keep in mind, *I* am not attempting to define what a loot box is - you are.

I am not trying to define them at all, my point is that even with randomized rewards, a battlepass is not a loot box in much the same way as how mob drops are not a loot box.

Again, if you want to define things differently, thats fine. You can do that. I do not.

The above said, your definition of what a loot box is actually does matter to this discussion.

As a refresher of our current back and forth;

You claimed that I said battlepass was going to be loot boxes.
I pointed out that I didn't say that and asked you where I said it.
You refused to tell me where I said it, and just insisted that I did.
I baited you in to telling me where you think I said it.
You quoted me saying that battlepass will get some rewards randomized in the future, and claimed that was me saying battlepass is going to be turned in to loot boxes.
I pointed out that they are different things.
You claimed that - to you - they are the same thing.

This calls in to question how you define a loot box, as most reasonable people would see a difference between a battlepass with some of the rewads randomized, and a loot box.

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