Why do we have to do realm mergers anyways?

Why can't we just let low pop realms be low pop realms?

Is it just the cost of hosting the realm that is the problem? Like not enough people to pay for running it?

Or the users themselves? I could see some people actually enjoying a low pop realm, shrug.

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tautau

Here is the info on name reservations, including priorities for who chooses first:

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Name_reservations

Aszkalon

Xeeg wrote: »

Why can't we just let low pop realms be low pop realms ?

In my humble Opinion,
every Server in Ashes needs a certain minimum Number of People to :

- Fill a lot of Spots in the Open World so that People can rise up Nodes

- So that these Spots have enough People for Node War's/Sieges

- So that there are always enough People around for Caravan's, World Bosses, the Open Sea's, etc ... ...

I could imagine the Game/Community even being put on a SINGLE SERVER if enough Hesitation to play the Game comes to Shove - but i earnestly hope Intrepid won't be forced to put Everyone on a single Server. That would be a bit fatal.

Xeeg

Dygz wrote: »

Because maintaining servers costs money.

Do you think with all this dynamic server meshing stuff they are talking about it could actually be cheaper to run lower pop realms? The minimum servers would just spin up for the few people that are in the realm.

Shrug.

Laetitian

Can't you just add these questions to existing realm merging discussions (which have already offered some pretty impressive solutions) instead of keeping this vague meta discussion alive?

Xeeg wrote:

The minimum servers would just spin up for the few people that are in the realm.

The minimum servers required to host a full realm will still be significantly more than the extra servers those players might take up in an active realm. Just to run all the actors on that servers that aren't players.

Dygz

Xeeg wrote: »

Do you think with all this dynamic server meshing stuff they are talking about it could actually be cheaper to run lower pop realms? The minimum servers would just spin up for the few people that are in the realm.

Dunno how it will affect Realms. We still have to learn the official plan to minimize Realm merges.

Xeeg

Laetitian wrote: »

Can't you just add these questions to existing realm merging discussions (which have already offered some pretty impressive solutions) instead of keeping this vague meta discussion alive?

Xeeg wrote:

The minimum servers would just spin up for the few people that are in the realm.

The minimum servers for a full realm will still be significantly more than the extra servers those players might take up in an active realm.

OK, sorry. Didn't want to hijack someone else's thread. I am just asking if we really need to merge them in the first place. Not sure if that was the topic of the other threads.

Most people are coming at this with the expectations of mergers because that's what other games do. But does Ashes have the same reasons to do so as the other games?

I can imagine some subsement of people preferring low pop realms, so do they really have to kill them?

Laetitian

Xeeg wrote:

OK, sorry. Didn't want to hijack someone else's thread. I am just asking if we really need to merge them in the first place. Not sure if that was the topic of the other threads.

Sure, I just think you got your answers, now if you still think there'd be a reason to avoid realm mergers entirely, it'd probably make sense to discuss it in the context of a specific merger discussion.

If only because it feels like you're fighting phantoms, and if you actually picked out one of the recent threads where merger solutions were discussed, you'd probably find that they can work out pretty great when done right, and don't need to be prevented at all cost.

I can imagine some subsegment of people preferring low pop realms, so do they really have to kill them?

There will be realms with lower pop than others. The minimum amount to keep a realm alive will just be higher than "realms" in other games, and even the players who prefer peaceful/quiet/cozy communities will want their economies and nodes to be populated enough to be functional.

Noaani

Xeeg wrote: »

I can imagine some subsement of people preferring low pop realms, so do they really have to kill them?

Still yes.

In regards to the cost to maintain servers - if a given server is open, hardware needs to be allocated to it. The world simulation (as it were) would need to be running.

There is a base level of compute needed to just have a game world function, and with Ashes, the nodes, events, seasons and just the general way the world changes, Ashes will require more compute to maintain each world than any other game I can think of other than perhaps EVE (which only has the one world).

That is a financial reason to do it, but the main reason to merge servers in a game like Ashes is about gameplay. As pointed out above, a low population server where there just aren't enough people around to provide the risk elements that Ashes is built on would essentially be broken.

Vaknar

Awesome thoughts and opinions shared on the reasons why server merges happen in here!

In case there are some who haven't read up on it, there is a wiki page on this topic (with some quotes from Intrepid Studios staff on the subject

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Server_merges

Xeeg

Noaani wrote: »

That is a financial reason to do it, but the main reason to merge servers in a game like Ashes is about gameplay. As pointed out above, a low population server where there just aren't enough people around to provide the risk elements that Ashes is built on would essentially be broken.

The financial reason i can understand. The gameplay stuff I can only agree to if the userbase on the low pop realm is actually requesting a server merge.

Ashes is a game where not everyone gets everything. A lot of people are already resigned to that. People on a low pop realm that like that way may not care about the things they are missing out on because they weren't planning on doing that content anyways.

Some people may only want to craft things in this game and sell them to people and not do the caravans, should they get kicked because they don't want to do all the content?

Not only that, but there may be userbase fluctuations throughout Ashes of Creation's lifecycle. Do they really want to kill a whole bunch of realms with <30% regular pop (3k users) that have realm histories where people care about their contribution, only to bring back fresh realms half a year later because of increased interest in the game?

Dygz

Yeah, I'd like to see how the players on a low pop server feel about the gameplay.
Also, what would happen when some mega-guild jumps on to raid some Castles.

Noaani

Xeeg wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

That is a financial reason to do it, but the main reason to merge servers in a game like Ashes is about gameplay. As pointed out above, a low population server where there just aren't enough people around to provide the risk elements that Ashes is built on would essentially be broken.

The financial reason i can understand. The gameplay stuff I can only agree to if the userbase on the low pop realm is actually requesting a server merge.

Ashes is a game where not everyone gets everything. A lot of people are already resigned to that. People on a low pop realm that like that way may not care about the things they are missing out on because they weren't planning on doing that content anyways.

Some people may only want to craft things in this game and sell them to people and not do the caravans, should they get kicked because they don't want to do all the content?

Not only that, but there may be userbase fluctuations throughout Ashes of Creation's lifecycle. Do they really want to kill a whole bunch of realms with <30% regular pop (3k users) that have realm histories where people care about their contribution, only to bring back fresh realms half a year later because of increased interest in the game?

The financial issues are in and of themselves enough of reason, however I also think the gameplay issues are enough of a reason.

It shouldn't really be up to players to decide if they want easy mode or regular mode - which is basically what a low population server would be.

Xeeg

Noaani wrote: »

It shouldn't really be up to players to decide if they want easy mode or regular mode - which is basically what a low population server would be.

I just find this line of reasoning so hard to understand.

So does that mean if a player wants to just do commissions and side quests near a safe town and just chat and trade and never do any caravans, it shouldn't be up to them?

What about being in a large guild conglomerate that owns a whole bunch of nodes. Seems pretty easy, not up to them though?

Noaani

Xeeg wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

It shouldn't really be up to players to decide if they want easy mode or regular mode - which is basically what a low population server would be.

I just find this line of reasoning so hard to understand.

So does that mean if a player wants to just do commissions and side quests near a safe town and just chat and trade and never do any caravans, it shouldn't be up to them?

What about being in a large guild conglomerate that owns a whole bunch of nodes. Seems pretty easy, not up to them though?

If wants to run low risk content, then they can have at it.

They get the reward that is appropriate for the amount of risk they are putting themselves under, and that risk and reward is largely the same on all servers.

If a large guild or alliance is able to run off the oposition to the point where no one is challenging them, that is them being successful at eliminating a risk. The risk of PvP from other players was always there, that large guild or alliance has just managed to reduce that risk via good gameplay.

On a low population server though, anything that involves open PvP or contest is a lower risk, but with the same reward. That risk that the large guild has eliminated simply doesn't exist at all on a low population server.

These are different things - one is meeting a challange (large guild), one is working within your risk acceptance (running side quests), where as the other is just not having the challenge at all.

Laetitian

Xeeg wrote:

Not only that, but there may be userbase fluctuations throughout Ashes of Creation's lifecycle. Do they really want to kill a whole bunch of realms with <30% regular pop (3k users) that have realm histories where people care about their contribution, only to bring back fresh realms half a year later because of increased interest in the game?

Again, you're painting it way too dramatically because you're not engaging with more positive ideas of how the process might go; all of which is a result of this thread being a meta discussion of a general topic without any connection to specific direct discussions of the topic and their conclusions.

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/59440/how-to-prevent-the-early-demise-of-any-good-mmorpg-from-inevitable-early-population-decline

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/59330/server-merge-solution/p1

I think if you take a look at some of the more fun solutions in these threads, you might agree that the more pertinent discussion isn't "do we need to merge at all," - as evidenced by the way you treat the prospect of a merger in your discussion as something destructive by default - and instead "how do we orchestrate the mergers which do end up being necessary, in order to respect players' time investment and avoid making them feel like we're destroying the world they've built and achievements they have made?"

Also keep in mind: If you take one 1000 player realm, and you merge it with another 1000 player realm, it's not like it's suddenly packed, or like the power structures of the old realm will be wiped out.
(Obviously they shouldn't let realms get so low that one realm might then quickly undergo 4 mergers in quick succession as more players jump ship, which is a possibility if the numbers are picked too small. 1000 is a random ballpark number; the game itself will probably offer far more useful metrics for how low the player count can go before too many nodes will be neglected and the economy and liveliness will suffer too much, before a realm is at risk of going multiple mergers in succession)

Another fun and obvious addition to the initial solution offered in the second thread (and linked in the first) could be to give the "losing" realm tools to reinstitute their known node for structure on the new realm they are colonising, by giving incoming players cheaper and prioritised access to node citizenship in the places they were used to.
It doesn't have to be destructive, it can just be a new challenge to live through.

Anyway, I think the solution is to combine the best of all worlds (pun):
- Reduce the amount of merging needed by managing realm population and limiting the amount of dying communities in the first place.
- But if a realm does crumble faster than any reinforcements can cover, have a backup solution that feels like a fun new challenge while preserving as much of the existing realm lore as feasible, to making the new introductions to it interesting, instead of disconnected to the point of inspiring nihilism.

Xeeg

Noaani wrote: »

If a large guild or alliance is able to run off the oposition to the point where no one is challenging them, that is them being successful at eliminating a risk. The risk of PvP from other players was always there, that large guild or alliance has just managed to reduce that risk via good gameplay.

On a low population server though, anything that involves open PvP or contest is a lower risk, but with the same reward. That risk that the large guild has eliminated simply doesn't exist at all on a low population server.

And what about the realm that starts as high pop (like all the realms), but then large guilds dominate (like you are saying) and take over areas and people start to quit or migrate to other realms, causing the realm to become low pop and dominated by just a few big guilds.

Time to merge them i guess? Regardless of all the work and effort these guilds put into taking over their realm?

Dygz

Low Pop Realm would have lower Risk from PvP, but should have increased Risk from PvE - due to rampant World Corruption.
(Also more challenging to construct and maintain Metros)

Aszkalon

Dygz wrote: »

Yeah, I'd like to see how the players on a low pop server feel about the gameplay.
Also, what would happen when some mega-guild jumps on to raid some Castles.

If Nobody can really do anything with their Nodes, because there is either missing Competition "OR" Allies,
then People will most likely switch to/seek another Server - or leave the Game entirely.

If some "MEGA-Guilds" can jump and raid any Castle, Node, whatever - without even the WHOLE. REST. of the remaining Server being able to stop them,
hence basically being reduced to their "living NPC-Toys" forever,

then that can lead to either mostly Everyone of these other People wanting to "join" the MEGA-Guild - ooorrr leaving the Game entirely.

Both of these are things that could ruin and end a whole MMO. These are nice Reasons to do something against that. Of Course You "WILL" without fail have People who always have something to nag and whine about anyway,

and some People will leave the Game anyway sooner or later -> but still there is always Reasons to make Decisions that benefit most of the Community playing the Game.

TheDarkSorcerer

Venacier wrote: »

They could make a world event on low pop servers...where the world starts to fall away...get smaller. Unless enough ppl get together to stop it, via difficult quest lines.
This would make oceans shrink...the land mass shrink, until the low pop isn't as much a problem.
Just a thought.
It would suck to merge realms, and everybody losses everything they had land/homes, etc.
I believe the low pop would merge with a high pop. Does this mean the low pop has to fight as a homeless to get land in a high population server? Is it a wipe, and everybody has to start fresh...wow wouldn't that suck for the high pop server...you didn't do anything wrong. Realm is running great...then bam...little guy wants a house...so sorry...WIPE time

So basically Fortnite.... lol

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