Technical aspect of the flagging system

Situation: I'm walking down the street doing my thing feeding pigeons (cause that's what carebears do) or what have you and someone comes along and smacks me down in the face with a 12 pound sledge hammer because he's displeased with my behavior or whatever.

In this situation we can hardly argue who's the combatant.

But then with the current flagging system it gets really interesting.

Let's say after I've been struck I'm a bit disgruntled, get up and start assessing whether I should defend myself, or not.

Here the game tells me that if I chose to defending myself I become a combatant and puts me on the same combativeness level as my aggressor on a global level. Meaning that anyone that comes along sees two combatants.

My question: will there be any sort of mechanism that will indicate to anyone coming along that someone is defending themself?

Thank you

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EnderlinH

No, there's not

cupi

Thank you

BlackBrony

Because there is no option. The moment you choose violence, you're a combatant as well.
Who started the war? Doesn't matter, both are killing now.

Aszkalon

cupi wrote: »

Situation: I'm walking down the street doing my thing feeding pigeons (cause that's what carebears do) or what have you and someone comes along and smacks me down in the face with a 12 pound sledge hammer because he's displeased with my behavior or whatever.

I can safely assure You that "some" People will at least "TRY" do that - solely because of your Character existing in the first Place. (lol)

cupi wrote: »

In this situation we can hardly argue who's the combatant.

But then with the current flagging system it gets really interesting.

Let's say after I've been struck I'm a bit disgruntled, get up and start assessing whether I should defend myself, or not.

Do You know - that when your Character is still flagged "green" -> apparently CROWD-CONTROL Abilities don't work on your Character ?

Meaning as long as You haven't hit your Attacker back - > You have a greater Chance if You QUICKLY bail and run away as fast and mighty as you possibly can. (heheheheh

)

No Battle-Shout/Taunt of any Warrior/Fighter should work on You, in Case those Classes have those.
No kind of "Hypnosis" should work on You as well.

I am curious whetever Cold/Blizzard(?)- and Electricity- or otherwise Elemental-kind of things would be affected as well, which can count as Crowd-Control Abilities.

cupi wrote: »

Here the game tells me that if I chose to defending myself I become a combatant and puts me on the same combativeness level as my aggressor on a global level. Meaning that anyone that comes along sees two combatants.

My question: will there be any sort of mechanism that will indicate to anyone coming along that someone is defending themself?

Thank you

Never heard of such a System until now.

Question is :

If we walk down the Road -> and see two People duking it out or so -> will there be a way to find out if Someone of these two is a "Citizen of the OWN NODE" - and being attacked by a Stranger from another Node ?

Because if Yes,
then this could lead to more or less funny Scenarios in which we can come to help our fellow Node Citizens.

Dolyem

Just a couple players fighting like drunkards in the street. Just as the founding fathers of Verra intended.

CROW3

Part of me understands why identifying the aggressor between two purples could lead to taking sides. But honestly, I’m most likely going to pincushion both from a distance collect my loots and camo for the combatant timer. 😈

Arya_Yeshe

I thought you would continue as green and fight back as green, which is the only thing that makes sense to me

CROW3

Arya_Yeshe wrote: »

I thought you would continue as green and fight back as green, which is the only thing that makes sense to me

Nope. You fight back, you’re purple.

ReLamas

That's a very interesting point and raises an important question about the flagging system in Ashes of Creation.

The idea of being attacked and then flagged as a combatant just for defending yourself can indeed seem unfair, especially when considering the scenario you described. If I were feeding pigeons and someone attacked me, my natural reaction would be to defend myself. However, being flagged as a combatant on the same level as my aggressor could cause confusion for other players who might not know who initiated the conflict.

It would be great if there were some kind of mechanism in the game that clearly indicated who is defending themselves and who started the attack. Perhaps a different flagging system, where the defender has a visible mark indicating they are responding to an attack, could help address this issue. This would allow other players to see that someone is simply trying to protect themselves, rather than assuming both players are equally involved in a hostile confrontation.

Additionally, such a system could help maintain fairness and clarity in the game, encouraging more just gameplay and preventing peaceful players from being unjustly punished for defending themselves. This kind of nuance in the combat flagging system could really make a difference in the overall player experience.

I hope the developers of Ashes of Creation consider these concerns and implement solutions that make the combat system clearer and fairer for all players.

Noaani

I don't see any issue with the current plan.

If someone attacks you and you fight back, that is you telling passers by "it's all good, I've got this". Or at least that you think you do.

Remaining green would be a signal to others that you could use some help.

Keep in mind as well, the combatant flag is t denoting aggressor/defender, nor should it be. It is indicating a willingness to engage in PvP, and if you defend yourself, you are willing to engage in PvP.

Realistically speaking though, as an addition to the above, with what we have seen of PvP so far, if you are far enough away as to not see who is the aggressor and who is the defender, you are unlikely to get to the fight quickly enough to do anything anyway.

Dolyem

As it is currently designed (As much as I disagree with how its implemented). If you're being attacked, you're immune to CCs until you deal damage to your attacker. Nullifying some of their abilities and allowing you to close distance on them unhindered regardless of whatever class you are.

Accept that this is a PvX game and PvP things will happen to you while you're out PvEing.

But I wouldn't be against a marker showing who engaged who, though with that sort of system I would hope it would also be applied to corruption to show who is actually griefing as opposed to dealing with a non-griefing PK engagement, seeing as griefing is considered repetitive.

Saabynator

I was sure, that you could defend yourself, without repercussions. What if you kill your attacker? Will you get a "honor" hit? Or whatever its called. Can you actually get KOS for other players and cities, if you defend yourself? That would be really bad. Also, you can bait with that system. Have one guy hit someone, let them hit back, thinking they can win, then 3 peeple come stormin out the bush and wack the defender, with no penalties. Seems like a design flaw. I am not sure that is how it is. If it is, Im not sure that how they intended it to be.

Noaani

Saabynator wrote: »

I was sure, that you could defend yourself, without repercussions. What if you kill your attacker? Will you get a "honor" hit? Or whatever its called. Can you actually get KOS for other players and cities, if you defend yourself? That would be really bad.

There is no KoS for other players or cities - there is simply three states - non-combatant, combatant or corrupt. Fighting back against an attacker does not give corruption, it only moves you to a combatant state. Any player can attack you while you are in any state, which is why there is no KoS state.

As to your hypothetical situation, that kind of thing isn't really an issue. When making the decision to fight back or not, the notion that there may be others coming to assist on either side should be a part of that thought process.

Saabynator

Noaani wrote: »

Saabynator wrote: »

I was sure, that you could defend yourself, without repercussions. What if you kill your attacker? Will you get a "honor" hit? Or whatever its called. Can you actually get KOS for other players and cities, if you defend yourself? That would be really bad.

There is no KoS for other players or cities - there is simply three states - non-combatant, combatant or corrupt. Fighting back against an attacker does not give corruption, it only moves you to a combatant state. Any player can attack you while you are in any state, which is why there is no KoS state.

As to your hypothetical situation, that kind of thing isn't really an issue. When making the decision to fight back or not, the notion that there may be others coming to assist on either side should be a part of that thought process.

We really dont know if its a thing yet, since the game is not out yet, and people haven not explored all the options.

But if your combatant, people can kill you without sacrificing anything themselves. So my point was, you can get punished by denfending yourself. Meaning, the "law" in the game is so, that defending yourself from murder is illigal.

Dolyem

Saabynator wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Saabynator wrote: »

I was sure, that you could defend yourself, without repercussions. What if you kill your attacker? Will you get a "honor" hit? Or whatever its called. Can you actually get KOS for other players and cities, if you defend yourself? That would be really bad.

There is no KoS for other players or cities - there is simply three states - non-combatant, combatant or corrupt. Fighting back against an attacker does not give corruption, it only moves you to a combatant state. Any player can attack you while you are in any state, which is why there is no KoS state.

As to your hypothetical situation, that kind of thing isn't really an issue. When making the decision to fight back or not, the notion that there may be others coming to assist on either side should be a part of that thought process.

We really dont know if its a thing yet, since the game is not out yet, and people haven not explored all the options.

But if your combatant, people can kill you without sacrificing anything themselves. So my point was, you can get punished by denfending yourself. Meaning, the "law" in the game is so, that defending yourself from murder is illigal.

If you're a combatant, you're losing half as many resources on death, or none because you win. You're punished more for not fighting back.

Saabynator

Dolyem wrote: »

Saabynator wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Saabynator wrote: »

I was sure, that you could defend yourself, without repercussions. What if you kill your attacker? Will you get a "honor" hit? Or whatever its called. Can you actually get KOS for other players and cities, if you defend yourself? That would be really bad.

There is no KoS for other players or cities - there is simply three states - non-combatant, combatant or corrupt. Fighting back against an attacker does not give corruption, it only moves you to a combatant state. Any player can attack you while you are in any state, which is why there is no KoS state.

As to your hypothetical situation, that kind of thing isn't really an issue. When making the decision to fight back or not, the notion that there may be others coming to assist on either side should be a part of that thought process.

We really dont know if its a thing yet, since the game is not out yet, and people haven not explored all the options.

But if your combatant, people can kill you without sacrificing anything themselves. So my point was, you can get punished by denfending yourself. Meaning, the "law" in the game is so, that defending yourself from murder is illigal.

If you're a combatant, you're losing half as many resources on death, or none because you win. You're punished more for not fighting back.

But others can attack you now as well. They wont lsoe faction or whatever its called now, since you attacked back. So your free game for others, no? I mean, they will become combatants too, but still. It feels weird, that the laws of Verra is, that defending yourself, opens you up for more attacks.

Dolyem

Saabynator wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Saabynator wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Saabynator wrote: »

I was sure, that you could defend yourself, without repercussions. What if you kill your attacker? Will you get a "honor" hit? Or whatever its called. Can you actually get KOS for other players and cities, if you defend yourself? That would be really bad.

There is no KoS for other players or cities - there is simply three states - non-combatant, combatant or corrupt. Fighting back against an attacker does not give corruption, it only moves you to a combatant state. Any player can attack you while you are in any state, which is why there is no KoS state.

As to your hypothetical situation, that kind of thing isn't really an issue. When making the decision to fight back or not, the notion that there may be others coming to assist on either side should be a part of that thought process.

We really dont know if its a thing yet, since the game is not out yet, and people haven not explored all the options.

But if your combatant, people can kill you without sacrificing anything themselves. So my point was, you can get punished by denfending yourself. Meaning, the "law" in the game is so, that defending yourself from murder is illigal.

If you're a combatant, you're losing half as many resources on death, or none because you win. You're punished more for not fighting back.

But others can attack you now as well. They wont lsoe faction or whatever its called now, since you attacked back. So your free game for others, no? I mean, they will become combatants too, but still. It feels weird, that the laws of Verra is, that defending yourself, opens you up for more attacks.

It's a PvX game and people are still actively trying to argue against having to be involved in PvP. If having to deal with PvP is so terrible, either don't go anywhere in the game that has it, like cities, or just find a game that doesn't have it. It's exhausting hearing nonPvPers complain about PvP when there is literally every other MMO on the market not focusing on it.

StewBad

Why not make it so that Bounty Hunters are the only ones that can differentiate between aggressor and defender? In addition, make it so that if you are the defender, and you kill your attacker you are immediately flagged as non-combatant again.

This gives more reason to be a Bounty Hunter and allows you to return immediately to the "lesser" state of danger.

This idea would also lessen the penalty for defending yourself. There is still the residual risk of flagging as combatant for defending yourself, you'll have to weigh that when the time comes. Are there other people nearby that might try to snipe the both of you? Are you in a position that you believe you could escape if you just run? Do you believe you could actually kill your attacker? Do you have any loot that you don't want to risk losing?

I mean, lets face it, no one is going to consider for more than a second that there may be some vigilante nearby that will see the attacker initiate and come play batman for you. And calling in reinforcements will likely not happen fast enough to help you live. You're either running or fighting, and that decision will likely be made within seconds of combat starting.

Ripteye

So basically you just have to except that you are being murdered. How does this encourage PVP

StewBad

You don't have to accept being murdered, you have a choice.

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