Technical aspect of the flagging system

Situation: I'm walking down the street doing my thing feeding pigeons (cause that's what carebears do) or what have you and someone comes along and smacks me down in the face with a 12 pound sledge hammer because he's displeased with my behavior or whatever.

In this situation we can hardly argue who's the combatant.

But then with the current flagging system it gets really interesting.

Let's say after I've been struck I'm a bit disgruntled, get up and start assessing whether I should defend myself, or not.

Here the game tells me that if I chose to defending myself I become a combatant and puts me on the same combativeness level as my aggressor on a global level. Meaning that anyone that comes along sees two combatants.

My question: will there be any sort of mechanism that will indicate to anyone coming along that someone is defending themself?

Thank you

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Githal

cupi wrote: »

Githal wrote: »

but in most cases the third party will try to find opening to kill both.

Is there so much benefit to kill a player? This isn't full loot

when there is no risk of corruption because both will be "combatants" - who would miss on free mats?

cupi

Githal wrote: »

cupi wrote: »

Githal wrote: »

but in most cases the third party will try to find opening to kill both.

Is there so much benefit to kill a player? This isn't full loot

when there is no risk of corruption because both will be "combatants" - who would miss on free mats?

To break up a fight where two people are duking it out? I would consider it

Veeshan

cupi wrote: »

Githal wrote: »

but in most cases the third party will try to find opening to kill both.

Is there so much benefit to kill a player? This isn't full loot

its partial loot we dont know the exact amount i beleive but green players will drop X amount of items in there resource inventory (So anything that not a comsumable/equipment) and so on pretty much any harvested/resource or mob drop vendor item aka glint, if u fight back in pvp and become combatant u loose half the amount the green player would if they die, and if ur corrupted u have a chance of dropping equipment depenidng on how corrupt u are (i think u drop all resources too but not 100% sure there off top of my head)

Dolyem

Noaani wrote: »

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

If a PvE player is going to be attacked, they would rather it be while they are running content they don't care about than while they are running the content that is the reason they play MMORPG's at all.

I mean, I'm pretty sure you're the one who've been expecting pvp zones around bosses, right? I expect those zones to simply be always taken buy guilds and guilds will be at war, so those pvers will always be PKed one way or the other. That's the point of open world bosses and contesting them. And yes, I know all pvers want instanced content and all that stuff.

Yeah, I do.

I'm just pointing out how poorly designed this aspect is if you assume Intrepid want to bring in people that prefer PvE over PvP.

Steven has literally no idea what a player that prefers PvE even wants in an MMORPG.

I will say, as much of a PvP advocate as I am. I don't think having the boss fights themselves open to PvP interference is the best idea. If nothing else because of the fact that you'd have to design every boss fight with PvP in mind which would likely makes bosses too easy if no PvP occured during the fight.
I do think fighting for the instance of the boss itself will likely be the best route. But either way I think both should be tested

Ludullu

Ok, I think I'm done with the convo, cause I'm going almost insane. I totally understand that pretty much none of yall have experienced this system, so for all of you it's a theoretical vague nothingness when you try to imagine how it might work.

To me it's literally 12 years of life and direct experience of this exact system in, also, various balancings of it, because private servers liked to tweak values to different sides.

So I'd prefer to remove myself at this point before I start getting needlessly mad at people's misunderstandings or wrong assumptions.

PK value is the "count" I've been talking about for ages. You can "ctrl+f" the word "count" and see my thoughts on it, or at least my mentions of it.

I'd imagine that PKing will be tested at least a year off from the A2 release, so all of this discussion is ultimately pointless right now. Have a nice day, yall

Dolyem

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Ok, I think I'm done with the convo, cause I'm going almost insane. I totally understand that pretty much none of yall have experienced this system, so for all of you it's a theoretical vague nothingness when you try to imagine how it might work.

To me it's literally 12 years of life and direct experience of this exact system in, also, various balancings of it, because private servers liked to tweak values to different sides.

So I'd prefer to remove myself at this point before I start getting needlessly mad at people's misunderstandings or wrong assumptions.

PK value is the "count" I've been talking about for ages. You can "ctrl+f" the word "count" and see my thoughts on it, or at least my mentions of it.

I'd imagine that PKing will be tested at least a year off from the A2 release, so all of this discussion is ultimately pointless right now. Have a nice day, yall

Nothing pointless about feedback, including your own. We will see what happens as the game progresses.

Ludullu

Dolyem wrote: »

Nothing pointless about feedback, including your own. We will see what happens as the game progresses.

The pointlessness comes from what's been mentioned already. Steven likes to make claims of nearly opposite meaning sometimes. So until we get our hands on a mechanic directly, it's completely pointless to try and argue what it is right now or what Intrepid want it to be.

And I sure as hell have posted enough about my own preferences for pretty much any given system in the game, and I doubt I'd provide any new feedback for Intrepid, so it'd be better for my own psyche to just wait and see, especially when it comes to discussions of the pvp system.

Dolyem

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Nothing pointless about feedback, including your own. We will see what happens as the game progresses.

The pointlessness comes from what's been mentioned already. Steven likes to make claims of nearly opposite meaning sometimes. So until we get our hands on a mechanic directly, it's completely pointless to try and argue what it is right now or what Intrepid want it to be.

And I sure as hell have posted enough about my own preferences for pretty much any given system in the game, and I doubt I'd provide any new feedback for Intrepid, so it'd be better for my own psyche to just wait and see, especially when it comes to discussions of the pvp system.

Fair enough. No sense in losing sleep over it.

Noaani

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Ok, I think I'm done with the convo, cause I'm going almost insane. I totally understand that pretty much none of yall have experienced this system, so for all of you it's a theoretical vague nothingness when you try to imagine how it might work.

To me it's literally 12 years of life and direct experience of this exact system in, also, various balancings of it, because private servers liked to tweak values to different sides.

So I'd prefer to remove myself at this point before I start getting needlessly mad at people's misunderstandings or wrong assumptions.

PK value is the "count" I've been talking about for ages. You can "ctrl+f" the word "count" and see my thoughts on it, or at least my mentions of it.

I'd imagine that PKing will be tested at least a year off from the A2 release, so all of this discussion is ultimately pointless right now. Have a nice day, yall

Welcome to how I feel with every discussion about top end PvE.

Noaani

Githal wrote: »

cupi wrote: »

Githal wrote: »

but in most cases the third party will try to find opening to kill both.

Is there so much benefit to kill a player? This isn't full loot

when there is no risk of corruption because both will be "combatants" - who would miss on free mats?

You would pass it up because of the ill will it generates.

Unlike WoW, Ashes is a game where the people on your server are the entire pool of people with which you can run content. Further, due to traveling time, that pool of players will generally be further restricted to those thst have made nearby nodes home.

If you go around attacking players on the off chance they may have materials that you want, that is a potential black mark against you, and against your guild. That means content you won't be invited along for, gear upgrades you won't get.

I mean, if you attack someone in my guild and I then organize a pickup raid for an event a few days later, guess who isn't getting a spot.

Assuming you want to be a part of the wider community in Ashes (not everyone does), you do indeed need to be selective as to whom you fight.

Saabynator

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Ok, I think I'm done with the convo, cause I'm going almost insane. I totally understand that pretty much none of yall have experienced this system, so for all of you it's a theoretical vague nothingness when you try to imagine how it might work.

To me it's literally 12 years of life and direct experience of this exact system in, also, various balancings of it, because private servers liked to tweak values to different sides.

So I'd prefer to remove myself at this point before I start getting needlessly mad at people's misunderstandings or wrong assumptions.

PK value is the "count" I've been talking about for ages. You can "ctrl+f" the word "count" and see my thoughts on it, or at least my mentions of it.

I'd imagine that PKing will be tested at least a year off from the A2 release, so all of this discussion is ultimately pointless right now. Have a nice day, yall

Bye.

Otr

Noaani wrote: »

Unlike WoW, Ashes is a game where the people on your server are the entire pool of people with which you can run content. Further, due to traveling time, that pool of players will generally be further restricted to those thst have made nearby nodes home.

I think the influence of the big map and traveling time is overestimated.
There will be family summon, mounts on roads or gliding will help too.
I think 30 minute travel will be acceptable and guild members will wait each other for that amount of time.
Traveling over the ocean might be slower.

Noaani wrote: »

If you go around attacking players on the off chance they may have materials that you want, that is a potential black mark against you, and against your guild. That means content you won't be invited along for, gear upgrades you won't get.

I mean, if you attack someone in my guild and I then organize a pickup raid for an event a few days later, guess who isn't getting a spot.

If those who attack do so because they are in a different node chain, later when those nodes become allied with you, will you help them?

Otr

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

PK value is the "count" I've been talking about for ages. You can "ctrl+f" the word "count" and see my thoughts on it, or at least my mentions of it.

I know you discussed about this previously. I was not aware you mentioned it even in this thread. I checked only the last posts to see if was mentioned.
When I said it is supposed to be "a useful feature" I didn't thought much how I will build on it if the discussion continues.
I realize that this counter will reduce the rate of PK-ing because it keeps the history of how much a player is PK-ing.
My argument is if it increases, it must also decrease and how fast it oscillates is also a predetermined balancing which might be too fast for some players or too slow for others and a good value will not exist even for the same player.
And we will have the Bounty Hunter system which also might prove to be useless even though was described in the wiki.
Depending how many things change and how important for some players were, they can say Steven sold a dream.

caertaker

"Revenge is a dish best served cold".

People who are unjustly attacked should have a mechanism to facilitate their revenge. I'm thinking of an in-game "grudge list" to keep track of those who have wronged you. One that alerted you to someone on your list nearby would be even better.

If you're blindsided you are at a competitive disadvantage. If the perpetrator is worth his salt, you're going to die but that doesn't need to be the end of it. At a future time of your choosing, when you are a higher level, better geared or maybe have learned a thing or two...

Veeshan

caertaker wrote: »

"Revenge is a dish best served cold".

People who are unjustly attacked should have a mechanism to facilitate their revenge. I'm thinking of an in-game "grudge list" to keep track of those who have wronged you. One that alerted you to someone on your list nearby would be even better.

If you're blindsided you are at a competitive disadvantage. If the perpetrator is worth his salt, you're going to die but that doesn't need to be the end of it. At a future time of your choosing, when you are a higher level, better geared or maybe have learned a thing or two...

i use a piece of paper dont realy need a ingame mechanic to right down names of people who wronged u in the past

Dolyem

caertaker wrote: »

"Revenge is a dish best served cold".

People who are unjustly attacked should have a mechanism to facilitate their revenge. I'm thinking of an in-game "grudge list" to keep track of those who have wronged you. One that alerted you to someone on your list nearby would be even better.

If you're blindsided you are at a competitive disadvantage. If the perpetrator is worth his salt, you're going to die but that doesn't need to be the end of it. At a future time of your choosing, when you are a higher level, better geared or maybe have learned a thing or two...

I do love a KOS list, but I tend to just remember the name or write it down in a spreadsheet. Could be an in-game feature but isn't really needed.

Ludullu

Otr wrote: »

My argument is if it increases, it must also decrease and how fast it oscillates is also a predetermined balancing which might be too fast for some players or too slow for others and a good value will not exist even for the same player.

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Also, I do expect first PK to give us a fairly small amount of corruption that can be cleared within just a few minutes. But this is also the exact reason why PK count removal should be an expensive and lengthy ordeal, cause otherwise people will just quickly get their count back to 0 and go PK again w/o much of a penalty.

Otr

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

My argument is if it increases, it must also decrease and how fast it oscillates is also a predetermined balancing which might be too fast for some players or too slow for others and a good value will not exist even for the same player.

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Also, I do expect first PK to give us a fairly small amount of corruption that can be cleared within just a few minutes. But this is also the exact reason why PK count removal should be an expensive and lengthy ordeal, cause otherwise people will just quickly get their count back to 0 and go PK again w/o much of a penalty.

Yes, so that counter dynamic, depending how it is balanced will push players to be able to kill let's say 3 players / day or maybe 3 players every 2 days.
If players want to kill other players because that is what they enjoy then they will take the time to reduce the counter and then have their fun.
We will see soon the start of it's balancing and where it settles close to beta or release. We may have more fun than the ones playing the released game.

Another question....

You are in a city. You go to the bank and you get some resources into your inventory. And somebody, maybe 10 people attack you and one of them kills you.
What happens then?
It just loots you and runs away before guards kill him?
Guards have no reason to interfere as long as they are just purple... they attack only corrupted players.

And if the Guards attack and kill that player, from his ashes the other 9 friends can take the resources, whatever the game resource sink left us to loot?

Dygz

Dolyem wrote: »

If you're a combatant, you're losing half as many resources on death, or none because you win. You're punished more for not fighting back.

Normal death penalties for dying as a Non-Combatant.
Less (half) death penalties for dying as a Combatant.

Ludullu

Otr wrote: »

And if the Guards attack and kill that player, from his ashes the other 9 friends can take the resources, whatever the game resource sink left us to loot?

Don't think they ever said anything about resources being sunk during normal death penalties. Only caravan sinks have been stated.

As for loot, yes, right now it seems that anyone will be able to just loot a corpse. I've given several different points of feedback on that in the past, but until we see what the reality is, it's hard to say what exactly requires balancing.

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