Solo Players - Thoughts?

So as the title says, this discussion will be based on solo players. I am currently in a glorious guild & community that I have been in for a long time so I don't personally plan on doing many things solo, but I know a lot of people enjoy doing a bunch of solo adventuring and perhaps maybe I have a solo character just to see how that turns out for some fun when the game launches.

So what are your thoughts on a few things.
What do you want as a solo player
Personally if I was to tackle this game solo and with the knowledge that it's tailored to group gameplay, I would say that for a solo experience I would like to see at least some things implemented in terms of content like for example; perhaps the tower of Carphin has a secret area that only allows one persons mortal coil to enter and it is essentially the same as other games with tower content, you kill trash, kill a boss go to the next level and the Mobs and bosses get harder and harder until you get to like the final boss and for that you really gotta be a skilled player in order to kill it. And with that keeping it to the Ashes sort of hardcore theme, if you die then have it set so you drop everything you got from the Tower till you leave the tower. Then when you leave it reverts to the dropping 20% of materials sorta thing, that way people cant just unalive to get out of the Tower quicker.

Perhaps you can even have mini little ships that you can take out to see and attempt to fight some see monsters etc without needing a massive ship?

Some smaller dungeons that aren't massive and filled with mountains of things, just a small little crack randomly in the side of a mountain with some little hidden corridors and traps etc. (obviously you can't stop people from swarming with guilds but going for bigger fish is more beneficial anyways, so why waste time)

How do you think the game will play out for solo players?
We already know the game isn't going to be tailored for solo players, but despite that I don't see it being impossible to play for solo players. I'm hoping that they implement some sort of LFG (calm down and wait, not a WoW LFG 😂), what I mean by LFG is probably the wrong wording but having the ability to go to a tavern or something and see like a board or something that shows groups and if they are getting a group together for a boss etc. It has the username who put it up and when and where to go, then you can message them and tell them to add to group and then you head over and done pretty much. Think that would be cool and immersive.

As for how it will play out potentially in reality, I see it being hard. I mean if you are artisan main then going round chopping trees and mining etc in the open world, it won't be terrible as long as you keep an eye out for people and stay away so you don't get attacked and loose materials. For people who want to do dungeons and open world stuff I can't really see that being an option to tackle solo unless you are very skilled and just very good at kiting Mobs and pulling set amounts etc. But even then I don't think you'd survive against the bosses haha.

The questing I think will be fine for solos for the most part and just enjoying a nice adventure will be amazing in the game with all the scenery, you could just be a travelling solo adventurer going from city to city meeting people and such. Perhaps even become a merchant and build connections and pay for people to defend your caravan etc.

What does everyone else think?

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Zahie

Vospha wrote: »

Zahie wrote: »

As someone who plays solo alot I would like it to be easy to find and join random groups when needed and to communicate easy in game without the need to use discord all the time.
Just because I like exploring alot on my own doesn't mean I don't like group content or doesn't want to play with others but I think there will be enough things to do when one wants to play alone for a while.

I agree there 100% should be a way to find others for group content within the game, I don't want them to make a LFG like wow obviously but I think they need something that's more immersive. Like in my original post, having a notice board in taverns on cities with LFG's and then joining up from that. Would be the best and most immersive way in my opinion. If you need to find someone, you go to a city and put up a notice that you are looking for a DPS, Tank or Healer for your group to tackle the dungeon at so and so or even just anything not specifically a dungeon. Then friendly neighborhood soloer comes along and grabs the notice and decided to contact the person on the notice and join up for a great adventure, sounds amazing on paper

Yes, a helpful tool like that would be awesome.
I'm against automatic group finders and I don't like LFG spam in chat either.

Vospha

Zahie wrote: »

Vospha wrote: »

Zahie wrote: »

As someone who plays solo alot I would like it to be easy to find and join random groups when needed and to communicate easy in game without the need to use discord all the time.
Just because I like exploring alot on my own doesn't mean I don't like group content or doesn't want to play with others but I think there will be enough things to do when one wants to play alone for a while.

I agree there 100% should be a way to find others for group content within the game, I don't want them to make a LFG like wow obviously but I think they need something that's more immersive. Like in my original post, having a notice board in taverns on cities with LFG's and then joining up from that. Would be the best and most immersive way in my opinion. If you need to find someone, you go to a city and put up a notice that you are looking for a DPS, Tank or Healer for your group to tackle the dungeon at so and so or even just anything not specifically a dungeon. Then friendly neighborhood soloer comes along and grabs the notice and decided to contact the person on the notice and join up for a great adventure, sounds amazing on paper

Yes, a helpful tool like that would be awesome.
I'm against automatic group finders and I don't like LFG spam in chat either.

Could not agree more, nothing more immersion breaking than entering a town and all you see in chat is " LF2, DPS, HEALER - X number of clears req., DM BOTTHOT5000 for invite" like really... So annoying 😂 and it's not just 1 it's like 1per second hahaha

Ludullu

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Taverns#Bulletin_boards

What I want? For all the solos to be pushed towards joining a guild that matches their gameplay style.

What I expect? A bunch of solos running around complaining that they can't progress as fast as in all other soloable mmos. If you wanna play solo - expect to be slower than a snail in your progress. If you're ok with that pace - you'll enjoy the fuck out of Ashes.

Effah

make grouping easy, i dont care if i have to walk to the encounter.

Otr

Vospha wrote: »

How do you think the game will play out for solo players?

The game will be playable.
Steven mentioned small fast caravans which will introduce solo players to the caravan system. Those will not be able to carry large crates.
We often talk about the flagging system and 1 vs 1 encounters are also part of the debate.
Then we seen a PvE event where players could join on one side or the other while it is in progress.
Steven showcased sometime the PvE solo.
Most likely there will be small ships too, maybe the equivalent of the solo caravan but on the ocean.
The story part might be solo too.
The group finding will be probably in taverns as you said: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Group_finder

Your example of the solo secret area in the tower of Carphin feels against some design pillars. I don't see players paying monthly subscription to go and farm there unless IS will invest more effort to add more content for such players.

Vospha wrote: »

... but I also feel that having 1 dungeon in like each continent or something for someone just wanting to do a bit of solo for an evening would hurt.

Would hurt if there are only 2 dungeons and many more players want to go there.
As you said in the OP... "but I know a lot of people enjoy doing a bunch of solo adventuring"

2 dungeons for a lot of people?

Dolyem

P0GG0 wrote: »

i'd love some mechanic were you gain vision range when solo. basically a way to lower the chances of getting ganked.

you'd lose that buff for some amount of time if you take part in group content.

alt account or a guildie in comms runs solo, pulls all of the benefits. Hard no. And even if that wasnt the case its still a hard no as it reduces risk.

Effah

Dolyem wrote: »

P0GG0 wrote: »

i'd love some mechanic were you gain vision range when solo. basically a way to lower the chances of getting ganked.

you'd lose that buff for some amount of time if you take part in group content.

alt account or a guildie in comms runs solo, pulls all of the benefits. Hard no. And even if that wasnt the case its still a hard no as it reduces risk.

trust me i wasn't talking to random people like you. i do not care what you may or may not know.

Zahie

Vospha wrote: »

Zahie wrote: »

Vospha wrote: »

Zahie wrote: »

As someone who plays solo alot I would like it to be easy to find and join random groups when needed and to communicate easy in game without the need to use discord all the time.
Just because I like exploring alot on my own doesn't mean I don't like group content or doesn't want to play with others but I think there will be enough things to do when one wants to play alone for a while.

I agree there 100% should be a way to find others for group content within the game, I don't want them to make a LFG like wow obviously but I think they need something that's more immersive. Like in my original post, having a notice board in taverns on cities with LFG's and then joining up from that. Would be the best and most immersive way in my opinion. If you need to find someone, you go to a city and put up a notice that you are looking for a DPS, Tank or Healer for your group to tackle the dungeon at so and so or even just anything not specifically a dungeon. Then friendly neighborhood soloer comes along and grabs the notice and decided to contact the person on the notice and join up for a great adventure, sounds amazing on paper

Yes, a helpful tool like that would be awesome.
I'm against automatic group finders and I don't like LFG spam in chat either.

Could not agree more, nothing more immersion breaking than entering a town and all you see in chat is " LF2, DPS, HEALER - X number of clears req., DM BOTTHOT5000 for invite" like really... So annoying 😂 and it's not just 1 it's like 1per second hahaha

It's so annoying! I am someone who use to block everyone who spam LFG's in the wrong chat channel 😅 it's also a really turn off to do group contents in games that doesn't have any better way than this to finding groups.

Dolyem

P0GG0 wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

P0GG0 wrote: »

i'd love some mechanic were you gain vision range when solo. basically a way to lower the chances of getting ganked.

you'd lose that buff for some amount of time if you take part in group content.

alt account or a guildie in comms runs solo, pulls all of the benefits. Hard no. And even if that wasnt the case its still a hard no as it reduces risk.

trust me i wasn't talking to random people like you. i do not care what you may or may not know.

Thats a weird thing to say lmao. "I DONT WANT YOUR OPINION!"

Zahie

How do you think the game will play out for solo players?

After reading this I think it will be just fine.

We're not creating a solo game, but it doesn't mean that we don't offer gameplay that is solo centric as well: It lives in addition to the social aspect of What MMOs provide; and so part of what we do in order to to give that element of gameplay is we have quest lines that are devoted towards solo players. We have hunting grounds. Obviously one of the benefits of being a solo player is you get to keep everything that drops. You don't have to share loot with a party or with friends; that's one benefit of being a solo player. But it's going to be more difficult to overcome challenges; and those individuals who are up to taking that additional level of of difficulty are going to excel perhaps in their character progression a bit faster than those who are more group-centric. It's going to be a little bit of a roll of the dice there because there are loot tables, there are reward tables that accompany that, but it's important to note that from a content perspective Ashes of Creation is looking to fulfill both that solo-oriented mind in gameplay as well as the group and social experience; and a lot of times those paths diverge: They move apart, they come back together; and that process is going to be seen throughout the leveling in Ashes of Creation where you'll have more opportunities for solo gameplay and some opportunities for group gameplay.[2] – Steven Sharif

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Solo_players

Effah

Dolyem wrote: »

P0GG0 wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

P0GG0 wrote: »

i'd love some mechanic were you gain vision range when solo. basically a way to lower the chances of getting ganked.

you'd lose that buff for some amount of time if you take part in group content.

alt account or a guildie in comms runs solo, pulls all of the benefits. Hard no. And even if that wasnt the case its still a hard no as it reduces risk.

trust me i wasn't talking to random people like you. i do not care what you may or may not know.

Thats a weird thing to say lmao. "I DONT WANT YOUR OPINION!"

we want owr idea to reach intrepid. you just here to sound qualified and edgy.

Otr

In a Q&A Steven was asked what will AoC do to attract WoW players.
He mentioned 20% of dungeons might be for them but somehow I understood these are also bound to story and will happen mostly during leveling.

He often says "and I've always said our game's not going to be for everybody and that's okay"
Now that start of Alpha 2 is getting close, many so called "content creators" will try to highlight how AoC doesn't comply with common expectations.
This "not going to be for everybody" sentence will be repeated more often.

Effah

wow is for casuals. plenty of options there. also why post here ?

rollox

All these discussion on solo play makes me question, what exactly is meant by solo. It does not seem to be a thing anymore in mmo's to be 100% solo. My play time is probably around 60-75% solo.

That's just because I do a lot of crafting, exploring, and stuff like fishing. I certainly hope it's not required by these pillars to be grouped up when fishing. And it seems that some opinions on the forums here have a very definitive definition of solo i.e. not in a guild, not doing any raids, not in discord, etc etc.

What I see Ashes offering is social interactions being created. First through node citizenship. I would say the definition of solo player does not fit with someone who is a citizen of a node. Actively participating in tasks and work to build xp for that node. That's a social interaction that is not something that you are grouped with someone. But it could lead to a few ad hoc pugs of players doing the same tasks going out together.

Problem with me is I tend to get distracted, and veer off path to go check out something interesting. Having group mates begin yelling at me to get back to the task. For gods sake I hope that do a happen here if I go take some time to explore something.

Also there will be the guilds which also offer paths to social interaction. I really liked games where a guild has some organized events, whether it be a raid, farming, or PvP whatever. I would point to experiences in New Wold how this worked well.

As a solo player out on a daily gathering run. I could see that an opposing faction was attempting to obtain control of a stronghold. So I went to check it out. Found a few other strays in my faction around there. And we formed a group. Someone in that group called in some friends from their guild. And an hour of PvP over this stronghold ensued.

Now I wasn't a member of this guild, but I was invited to join the discord. A sizable portion of the players went to another stronghold in another territory. But a few of us stayed back as scouts and defenders. I was still in a small group, and we all kind of went back to doing our own thing around the stronghold. Mining, skinning, killing some overland mob, a boss... And whamo! The opponents had returned and started fighting again.

It's not an either or proposition. You are not ever entirely solo and you are not ever entirely grouped for content. Although you may stay in a small group out of necessity of protection in some cases. For me this turns out to be about 25% of my time actively adventuring with a group.

What I do wish for is a better system of node bulletins that brings social interaction and drama back into the game. The number 1 solo activity that I seen hurting games is having to go take gaming issue to a public forum. when youre posting on the forums you are 100% out of the game and solo. Perhaps there's a need for a system where. Nodes have bulletins so people can complain about pk's in their node. Not on some public forum out on the net

You could pay extra to have your message sent via "courier" to a larger node. A sort of pony express of information dissemination throughout the game. Along with a heavily moderated forum that shuts down topics that should be in game news, not a forum rant about player x or poi y.

Bring these social interactions back into the game please.

Ludullu

rollox wrote: »

My play time is probably around 60-75% solo.

You have just described a solo player. Someone who spends majority of their gameplay time as a solo player.

The other side of that is stable connections, as you pointed out here

rollox wrote: »

And it seems that some opinions on the forums here have a very definitive definition of solo i.e. not in a guild, not doing any raids, not in discord, etc etc.

If a player doesn't have a stable connection with other players - he's a solo player. Being in a guild means that you are either required or highly encouraged to play with the same group of people most of your time.

Raiding usually requires a guild (at least if you wanna raid successfully, especially in a game like Ashes).

And discord is just a meta-guild at this point. A collection of people that play together.

All of those things link you to a static group of people that will do most (if not all) of the group content with you, rather than with someone else.

Now, as you also pointed out, Ashes has nodes. And Steven hopes that nodes will be a form of "guild" for unguilded players, because it would create a situation similar to that of a guild. But node citizenship does not exclude guild membership, so a ton of players will be doing their own guild-based thing, even if that thing benefits the node.

But imo, "giving the node xp" is definitely not a "social interaction", unless it's a direct social interaction with other citizens. If you're doing a random soloable quest in your node - that's not a social interaction. If you're gathering random stuff by yourself (which gives node xp) - it's not social. And so on and so on. Node citizenship does not lead to direct social interaction with other people. It definitely encourages it and makes it easier, but there's no feeling of "if I do this sociable thing, I gotta do it with this group of people", as there is when you're playing in a guild or with a friend group.

Also, until it's proven otherwise after release, it's hard to say whether people won't attack other citizens of their own node. There's an interesting quote for this.
A player may not flag on members of the same party, raid, guild or alliance.[34]
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_flagging

That list does not include nodemates. To me this implies that Steven is ok with citizens of the same node fighting each other for whatever reason. And I'm 90% sure that people will in fact fight their nodemates over content, loot, petty reasons, etc.

And this would then imply that the social connection between node citizens is even weaker than the connection between alliance members, even though you live in the same node while alliance members might be spread across the entire realm.

So to come back to my main point. If you don't have stable connections with the same group of people - you're a solo player.

Dolyem

P0GG0 wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

P0GG0 wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

P0GG0 wrote: »

i'd love some mechanic were you gain vision range when solo. basically a way to lower the chances of getting ganked.

you'd lose that buff for some amount of time if you take part in group content.

alt account or a guildie in comms runs solo, pulls all of the benefits. Hard no. And even if that wasnt the case its still a hard no as it reduces risk.

trust me i wasn't talking to random people like you. i do not care what you may or may not know.

Thats a weird thing to say lmao. "I DONT WANT YOUR OPINION!"

we want owr idea to reach intrepid. you just here to sound qualified and edgy.

And I pointed out a large flaw in the idea. So it should either be rethought out, or not implemented

Otr

P0GG0 wrote: »

wow is for casuals. plenty of options there. also why post here ?

Because I had no idea that WoW is for casuals.
And I was trying to remind that the game is not going to be for everybody.

AoC has 5 design pillars, and two of them are against the solo dungeons:
- Player interaction
- Risk vs reward
Solo dungeons are worse than the PvE dungeons which at least have player interaction.

Also the economy is based on resource scarcity. Solo dungeons which can be farmed constantly would either add resources or would end up without rewards, playing just to fight NPCs.

Another frequent statement is "Not everybody's going to be a winner and that's okay"
That is said to support the PvP aspect of the PvX game-play.
Solo dungeons are not PvX.
AoC is not a PvE game.

rollox

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

you're a solo player.

That's ok, I am quite fine as a solo player.

Thanks for the view in nodes and citizenship. I guess it's a small difference of opinion or just semantics at this point. But I see my citizenship status, and interest in my node as social. I am working with and learning about other players in the node. Perhaps I am even making some commodity that is helping them.

The worry I have is with such narrow definitions and labels being placed on players. Along with statements being made outright towards solo players that "Ashes will not be for you."

To me this is very concerning as it's known that a large player base will be needed on a server for the entire system to function. And already it seems that someone being tagged a solo is already being discouraged from even exploring the game.

It really kind of turns me off from the game and this development team if they are so rigid in their design. That adoption of this game will only be among hardcore players. Which will be a failure in my opinion.

I thought Ashes was going to be about community. And finding that it may be something else make me a little worried. Either way, I will still most likely purchase and start in launch day. Hopefully it will hook me in and I can play this through my retirement years.

Dygz

The Ashes design includes stuff for solo players to do.
The vast majority of the design caters to masses of people playing alongside each other while focused on completing the same tasks/challenges.

Vospha wrote: »

Just enjoying a nice adventure will be amazing in the game with all the scenery, you could just be a travelling solo adventurer going from city to city meeting people and such. Perhaps even become a merchant and build connections and pay for people to defend your caravan etc.

That will not be a thing. Ashes is designed to for players to constantly be at high Risk.

Ludullu

rollox wrote: »

To me this is very concerning as it's known that a large player base will be needed on a server for the entire system to function. And already it seems that someone being tagged a solo is already being discouraged from even exploring the game.

The "not for you" response is usually a kneejerk one, because quite a few of us has been following the game for years now and we've seen a ton of pve and/or solo players come here (or reddit/discord) to give their feedback and it usually comes down to "I want to do the least amount of things, but benefit as much as those who do the most".

This is especially stark with solo players, because, as you said, Ashes is about community. But it's "community" in the way of "you gotta be a part of one if you wanna succeed, because others WILL be a part of one and will prevent you from succeeding".

No one will tell you that the game is not for you, as long as you're ok with just playing at your own slow pace and enjoying the little content you can get for what it is. The issues start when the solo player starts asking for high value content that's targeted purely at them, where they can pretty much exist outside of the game's social structures, yet still succeed in the same way that guild players do.

Those kinds of suggestions are usually the ones that trigger the "not for you" replies. Because, at that point, the reply is true. The game is not targeted at those kind of players. Yes, there will be some content that a solo player will be able to do. But it will be nowhere near anything that's equal to party-based content, let alone raid or guild.

And after that reply the conversation usually devolves into "this game is DOA if it doesn't appeal to my exact preferences, because only my preferences should be appealed to". And you yourself point out that not targeting the broader masses is a bad choice of design.

But from the very inception of the game Steven knew what kind of game he was making. And, if anything, it's only gotten even more hardcore with time. We've gotten more forced pvp content, we've gotten info about systems that are so deep into guild-based groups that solo players will never even come close to them. And absolute majority of design pillars that go against soloability are still in the game, even after years of people complaining about them and threatening Intrepid with DOA claims.

And because of ALLLL of that, it's much easier to respond with a "it's not for you" to anyone who barges in suggesting stuff that goes against the design direction of the game, rather than just going

And pointlessly trying to explain what I just explained to the one suggesting the counter-design. And it's pointless because, in my 4 years of being here, I don't remember a single person who came here with those kinds of suggestions, got told "nah, the game is not about that", and then went "oh damn, didn't know that. Yeah, that's fine, I'll just chill then".

It's all an exercise in futility for both sides of the discussion.

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