Not really feeling the whole front flip Dwarfs...

I understand Intrepid is taking its own direction on races and lore for Ashes...Perhaps not trying to fall into fantasy tropes or intellectual property thresholds.

But logically speaking I don't feel a mountain carving and tunneling race (Dünir) would jump flip... "Stoic and stout" seems more rotund, staunch and stocky... a 'regular' jump with perhaps a dodge roll seems a better fit.

(Verbal NDA lifted personal experience alpha tester, So actual hands on impression of the race as it currently being offered)

The islander dwarfs/halflings (Niküa) might seem fine with such athleticism.

I hope Intreprid might already have such details in the pipeline but just not implemented yet.

If not I hope they might reconsider the Jump Flip for mountain dorfs...

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Comments

Solmyr

Would you make the elves' animations rigid and methodical? No. They're elves, their animations should give the feeling of effortless grace and reflect centuries of acrobatic mastery.

The same principle applies to dwarves. They shouldn't be flashy and acrobatic. Their animations should feel practical, confident, and sturdy. And yes, they can and should be a little goofy sometimes -- but not in a way that contradicts the archetypal themes of the race.

Ludullu

Artharion wrote: »

I think you don't understand how human anatomy works. You're not going to see many elite strength athletes such as strongmen, who could be considered the closest equivalent to dwarves, with a lot of muscle hypertrophy and high weight in their bodies, doing flips. Who does flips in real life? People who do calisthenics and similar sports, meaning you need to be flexible and have a low body weight. When you have a lot of muscle hypertrophy and high weight that doesn't happen.

And this is coming from someone who has gone from doing calisthenics to hypertrophying their muscles for several years in the gym.

And none of that exists in a magical world with dudes the size of a barrel (in both height and width).

Magical worlds lead to magical happenings. And I want my Dunir to magicaly frontflip.

AyeveeGaming11

How about, if you want flipping on dwarves, you have to put a talent/skill point in it from the skill tree.

Dolyem

AyeveeGaming wrote: »

Listen to the song here: Dünir Dwarves Do not Flip
https://suno.com/song/2b7cc268-9763-4d2f-bacb-0c88fd681663

I may be indifferent but this song alone should make a canon story dispute between dunir and nikua. Where nikua flip around and dunir think its utterly ridiculous

Ludullu

AyeveeGaming wrote: »

How about, if you want flipping on dwarves, you have to put a talent/skill point in it from the skill tree.

This would then have to be a gameplay issue, rather than a visuals one.

I'm all for people getting a free cosmetic that will change their flips into mario jumps. Or the other way around. But I'm all against any removal of flips, or making them a paid/gameplay feature.

AyeveeGaming11

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

AyeveeGaming wrote: »

How about, if you want flipping on dwarves, you have to put a talent/skill point in it from the skill tree.

This would then have to be a gameplay issue, rather than a visuals one.

I'm all for people getting a free cosmetic that will change their flips into mario jumps. Or the other way around. But I'm all against any removal of flips, or making them a paid/gameplay feature.

I was just kidding around with the talent point idea. I know it would not be practical.
However, can I ask what your desire is for flipping dwarves? I mean, what makes you want the dwarf to flip? For me, the reality is that in role play, things like this matter. People have role played dwarves for many years and have lore, back stories, and cultures built into their roleplay. These people are passionate about such things. To some, it is silly and easy to dismiss. I have stated before in other places that this game is multi-generational. It is indeed international as well. The multi-generational one is what I want to discuss. There are players here, that will be in there 70's probably. Maybe not many but there will be a few. I am 53 right now. 54 or 55 when game releases. Will be playing hopefully into my 60's. Lore and Role play will mean something to me, as my reflexes for pvp and such are reduced. So I guess I am playing the Role )Player, older gamer card when we say that things like flipping dwarves does not fit into what we have been playing for years. I understand that it has a high chance of staying that way but still must make my case. Hopefully understanding the reason why some people do not want the flipping dwarves, as it directly impacts the role play aspect. It is important to understand why you want it as to try to balance it in my head which is more important.

Ludullu

AyeveeGaming wrote: »

However, can I ask what your desire is for flipping dwarves?

It's cool

No other reason for it.

AyeveeGaming11

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

AyeveeGaming wrote: »

However, can I ask what your desire is for flipping dwarves?

It's cool No other reason for it.

ok, noted.

Artharion

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Artharion wrote: »

I think you don't understand how human anatomy works. You're not going to see many elite strength athletes such as strongmen, who could be considered the closest equivalent to dwarves, with a lot of muscle hypertrophy and high weight in their bodies, doing flips. Who does flips in real life? People who do calisthenics and similar sports, meaning you need to be flexible and have a low body weight. When you have a lot of muscle hypertrophy and high weight that doesn't happen.

And this is coming from someone who has gone from doing calisthenics to hypertrophying their muscles for several years in the gym.

And none of that exists in a magical world with dudes the size of a barrel (in both height and width).

Magical worlds lead to magical happenings. And I want my Dunir to magicaly frontflip.

By that logic, I want my human to magically walk in the air. After all, it's a magical world, right?

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

AyeveeGaming wrote: »

However, can I ask what your desire is for flipping dwarves?

It's cool No other reason for it.

No, it's not. You're just agreeing with everything Intrepid does. If tomorrow they remove the front flip tomorrow, you'll be okay with that.

Ludullu

Artharion wrote: »

By that logic, I want my human to magically walk in the air. After all, it's a magical world, right?

I mean, we had that in the past in Ashes. I wouldn't be against it.

Artharion wrote: »

No, it's not. You're just agreeing with everything Intrepid does. If tomorrow they remove the front flip tomorrow, you'll be okay with that.

Ah yes, years of critiquing their design choices is "agreeing with everything they do"

And no, I would not like if they remove a feature that I like.

rollox

Artharion wrote: »

Who does flips in real life? People who do calisthenics and similar sports, meaning you need to be flexible and have a low body weight.

Uncommon Sense wrote: »

However in the real world high jumpers and long jumpers don't flip either...and gymnasts don't wear armor or have bear bellies...

John Belushi. He was all of 5' 8" and pushing 250 lbs. Not quite a dwarf but a pretty good flipper.

https://youtu.be/PZpH9Khn0E0?si=RhNncQnxdivuxK8C

Ludullu

rollox wrote: »

John Belushi. He was all of 5' 8" and pushing 250 lbs. Not quite a dwarf but a pretty good flipper.

Fairly sure that's not him doing the stunt. But it doesn't matter either way, cause magic.

RocketFarmer

What if players could toggle jump animations or use combo buttons to perform different jumps? More options the better. Then whether a dwarf flips or not is up to the player.

AyeveeGaming11

RocketFarmer wrote: »

What if players could toggle jump animations or use combo buttons to perform different jumps? More options the better. Then whether a dwarf flips or not is up to the player.

An opt out would be awesome.

Ludullu

RocketFarmer wrote: »

What if players could toggle jump animations or use combo buttons to perform different jumps? More options the better. Then whether a dwarf flips or not is up to the player.

Yes, option would be completely fine, as long as the flip is not removed.

rollox

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

rollox wrote: »

John Belushi. He was all of 5' 8" and pushing 250 lbs. Not quite a dwarf but a pretty good flipper.

Fairly sure that's not him doing the stunt. But it doesn't matter either way, cause magic.

I see you're right. Funny thing about lore and legends. you can live forty years believing something. Until the stunt double who did the work comes out and confirms the truth.

Anyhow I really like the idea of the optional user set config as to how your dwarf jumps and flips. Personally I would take the flip for sure, I like it.

Aszkalon

I like the Idea that People will HATE the Flip of the Dwarves.

Why ?

Because i think it will prevent Monkey/Bunning-Jumping then.

Muahahahahahah.

Uncommon Sense

Ok how about this perspective.

If the Dunir mountain dwarves were the perfect candidate to animate a front flip jump...

What other jump animations will the other races get?

Nikua? Double flip perhaps....

Tulnar...Surely the ape beast Tulnar will triple flip... run on hands cartwheels too?

What about the Elves? scissor kick twist jump with single hand plant....?

So Intrepid you've set a precedent that stocky staunch humble mountain folk who are probably as sure footed and reserved in their everyday lives as their environment shaped them, is currently the most acrobatic race to the point every jump they do irrespective of the armor they wear now must be a front flip...

Then we now must ask, is attacking and defending while jumping now possible for Dunir? Seeing as they've committed to flipping every jump how do they shield block or swing a battle axe (weapon) mid flip? can they even use other abilities while flipping?

In other words are they now vulnerable or do they magically immune mid flip...

If the other races are not as if not more so flamboyant than Dunir then what really was the deign brief in the office?

The reality is having the Dunir dwarves flip every jump is the dumbest design commitment I have seen In this entire games development....

If it was gnomes or pixies I'd be like "that makes plausible fantasy sense" in a believable way...

But instead you picked mountain dwarfs for acrobatics....Which blows any sense of coherent logic to the point it makes a fantasy unbelievable.

Otr

AyeveeGaming wrote: »

Listen to the song here: Dünir Dwarves Do not Flip
https://suno.com/song/2b7cc268-9763-4d2f-bacb-0c88fd681663

Nice!

Zhale

Dygz wrote: »

Seeming similar in many ways to Dwarves from other settings does not mean they are exactly the same as Dwarves from other settings.

I am with the op on this one, but it has nothing to do with the behaviour of dwarves in other fantasy settings, but to do with the verisimilitude of Ashes itself- its own, internal logic being coherent and cogent. A species that is "stoic and stout" is not a species that is agile or acrobatic. The two are mutually exclusive. Any comparisons to other fictional worlds are merely for convenience or reference sake- it still doesn't make sense within the internal rules of Verra/Ashes to have Dwarves in full plate doing front flips.

Edit: I'd actually be totally fine with dwarves doing front flips if they're:

Not wearing plate
Not a Tank or Tank hybrid

So I guess for me it's less of a racial thing and more of a "bro you're wearing your weight in steel" thing, I can see Dwarven rogue classes etc doing flips

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