Weapons seem redundant beyond combat style

Songcaller wrote: »

It seems to be 8ths rather than 10ths. Though it is not explicit. That is before k is applied. If k = 2 then it would be 16ths but 16ths can be refactored to 8ths once again...

Where are you seeing 8th? K seems to be the 0.1 multiplier in that equation. And in the bard showcase it is applied automatically. At least on the attack power side of things. Other stats do seem to have a slightly different multiplier.

On my calculator but I only calculated the formula in the power dynamic screenshot. The multiplier hasn't been applied in those two setup screenshot you showed. Though the setup screenshots show a reversal of trends compared to the power screenshot we both used. Also, I randomly plucked 2 out of thin air for 'k'. 🤔

Edit: Eureka moment. It appears the rating is divided by the base then the base is added on top. Hence why you say 10th and I say 8th. 😆

Songcaller wrote: »

Edit: Eureka moment. It appears the rating is divided by the base then the base is added on top. Hence why you say 10th and I say 8th. 😆

The physical power equation is shown in full in the fighter screenshot. It's "base + rating * K". That means that rating is multiplied by 0.1 and then added to the base. K = 0.1

The literal same is done in the bard's screenshot. 10 Base, 234 is multiplied by 0.1 and then added to the base to create the total of 33.4.

K isn't 0.1 in the power stat calculation. Therefore, the information needs updating on the wiki because the old calculation is what I stated but the 0.1 in the new calculations (latest iteration) is also correct. 👌

Songcaller wrote: »

K isn't 0.1 in the power stat calculation. Therefore, the information needs updating on the wiki because the old calculation is what I stated but the 0.1 in the new calculations (latest iteration) is also correct. 👌

Can you point me to how (43.4 - 10):334 is not 0.1?

Songcaller wrote: »

Yeah, I believe the weapons are redundant because of the merge between inherent stats and the emergent stats.

There does not seem to be a multiplier on basic damage, only on critical damage. The base stat here could be weapon damage, however, let's say 80 was max strength and the basic sword is 8, then it would be easier to get to 80 through the other slots than try to get a legendary weapon to +15 enchantment to reach 80 alone. The reason is manifold because you could max 3, 4 or 5 stats without touching the level 1 sword.

It's getting confusing. The power calculation that is not 0.1 for k is in the message I just quoted. The power calc for fighter is 0.1 and the bard is also 0.1 in the calculations which is why I stated wiki needs updating - or, we can just keep the calculations between those who read/respond on the thread for top secret use. 😉

Songcaller wrote: »

It's getting confusing.

It's getting confusing cause I can't understand why you're saying K is not 0.1, when the screenshot you used is the same thing I linked the full pic of.

And in that screenshot K is 0.1. Bard's version is simply a later iteration with the equation embedded into the numbers already (i.e. they auto-equal the 234 rating into a 23.4 one).

Literally nothing changed in how the calculation works. Only the visual presentation to the player changed.

Yes. K is not 0.1. It is rating divided by base plus base. That is why if I use 8 as base its an 8th and nor a 10th. Try the fighter calc on a calculator - my calc gets 42.4 at base of 8 or 44.4 at base of 10 yet the answer in the screenshot is 43.4. 🤔

(I don't see any screenshot above

just a file name)

K is 10% in these screenshots.
I would say it is a balancing constant.

But wiki also tells us that
"Stats can be improved based on gear, tattoos, and other enhancements, such as socketed items.[13]"

if each comes with 10% of something, having them can add 30% more which is not far from the 40%

"Gear has approximately a 40-50% influence on a players overall power in the game.[19]"

Songcaller wrote: »

Yes. K is not 0.1. It is rating divided by base plus base. That is why if I use 8 as base its an 8th and nor a 10th. Try the fighter calc on a calculator - my calc gets 42.4 at base of 8 or 44.4 at base of 10 yet the answer in the screenshot is 43.4. 🤔

Please, just look at the very screen shot you posted and see what it's showing. Intrepid literally gave us the full equation in the lowest line of your own screenshot.

It's literally 10 (base) + 334 (rating) * 0.1 (K) which equals to 43.4.

Otr wrote: »

(I don't see any screenshot above just a file name)

You can open it in a separate tab as an image, if you're on pc.

If you're on mobile - it's literally just the "physical power" window from my bigger screen shot. It's from the fighter showcase.

Songcaller wrote: »

Yes. K is not 0.1. It is rating divided by base plus base. That is why if I use 8 as base its an 8th and nor a 10th. Try the fighter calc on a calculator - my calc gets 42.4 at base of 8 or 44.4 at base of 10 yet the answer in the screenshot is 43.4. 🤔

It is a coincidence that base is 10.
Dividing by 10 is like multiplying with 0.1 (10%)

Okay cool. I have discalculation and dyslexia. I'm still not convinced k is 0.1 at a locked ratio. It is not easy to accept a 0.1 staple when the two calculations are identical. Hence I will still have to run spreadsheets and tests in a2.

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

(I don't see any screenshot above just a file name)

You can open it in a separate tab as an image, if you're on pc.

If you're on mobile - it's literally just the "physical power" window from my bigger screen shot. It's from the fighter showcase.

I noticed that I can do that use the link if I try to quote. That is how I was thinking on it for a while while you and Songcaller posted 6 times. I was looking for the magical power, I gave up and noticed you found it

I see it works on mobile but on PC with 2 different browsers doesn't.

Songcaller wrote: »

Okay cool. I have discalculation and dyslexia. I'm still not convinced k is 0.1 at a locked ratio. It is not easy to accept a 0.1 staple when the two calculations are identical. Hence I will still have to run spreadsheets and tests in a2.

Oh, definitely do, because other stats are multiplied and calculated differently. There's also the DR (diminishing returns) multipliers on some stats, all with their own values.

Considering K was removed in the Bard showcase (which is the newer iteration), I'd imagine Intrepid are not interested in us caring about K at all, while the calculation didn't change at all.

Songcaller wrote: »

Okay cool. I have discalculation and dyslexia. I'm still not convinced k is 0.1 at a locked ratio. It is not easy to accept a 0.1 staple when the two calculations are identical. Hence I will still have to run spreadsheets and tests in a2.

Steven said in a stream or interview that these numbers are the easiest thing to change while balancing the game and that is why Alpha 2 is needed.
I hope many players will do such spreadsheets because I don't

I do find it particularly coincidental that 2 different stats with 2 different values somehow both ended up with a 34 ending in rating.

Kinda makes me think that what we see in the showcase is completely made up rather than properly calculating. But I'm sure that this would be super easily tested by simply being in A2 tests right now, but all those 1.5k fuckers are NDAed, so, alas.

I have quickly checked the wiki (on beach about to have bbq). I can't locate where the 'base' comes from nor the 'rating'. Yes, I often make formulas when I can. The lifeblood of min maxing requires the arteries of foundation to be revealed. 😉

Sathrago

Something of note about weapons is that some will be required for certain skills. For example:

Honestly the more I look into the skills they have shown off, the less I want for every weapon to be used by every class. Some of these just wouldnt make sense. Like a fighter with a book would need extensive animation/effect creation just to make it work. and ranger as you can see above is mostly bow focused. I expect that there will be many restrictions on what weapons can be used across the archetypes due to skills not being able to use them. It kind of defeats the stated goal of "everyone can use any weapon" but this does make it more important what weapon you bring.