Developer API's for guild maintenance
Ravel
Member
The question was asked before in a different form, but was not actually answered (https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/45678/developer-apis).
I think it would be a good idea to have API's for guild maintenance outside the game itself, or at least an API for retrieving the guild roster outside the game to help guild to organise themselves not only inside the game.
I think it would be a good idea to have API's for guild maintenance outside the game itself, or at least an API for retrieving the guild roster outside the game to help guild to organise themselves not only inside the game.
The verb, not the composer name.
3
Comments
Irkallu discord: https://discord.com/invite/CB3ZrnD
Keep in mind though, Intrepid plan on having a solid in game UI to assist with these things, and to implement their own app for the game. It may well be that they decide to cover everything they consider important themselves between the in game UI and the app.
I was thinking about API's that have no influence on the communication between gaming client and the game server(s), and for that reason have nothing to do with add-ons, but instead API's that open a limited amount of the game server data (having to do with guild rosters and agenda's) to the outside world, nothing more.
@Kazan Tenno Indeed, I had web development for guild sites in mind.
If that was available, I'd write that into my website!
Irkallu discord: https://discord.com/invite/CB3ZrnD
Imagine in Eve Online, INIT, GoonSwarm, TEST, Any of them trying to manage and run that without that function.
Sounds like a great selling point to not have them.
I mean maybe, but Im not talking to be like them mind you. But a guild management API...
How big are the raids?
How do you handle loot?
How do you interface the guild with better environments.
Steven has said over and over they want to bring the "Massive" back into MMO. That means guild sizes larger than 300, And even if it is 300, with a lack of an API and a team that has deadlines and schedules managing a guild interface system, I think its a little unrealistic, and API will help, you can clamp the data it access, etc. I think it would be very ignorant(no offense intended) to not allow an API at all.
This will be particularly true of established guilds planning on migrating into AoC. Many of their potential enemies are using this time to plant spies pre-release.
I get where your coming from.
How many of these massive guilds have private web sites and discord where they handle this kind of thing?
Sounds like a plan, to me. I mean, they even had the big Dev Discussion about what players wanted in-game for Guild management. There's currently no final version, but there's certainly a plan.
Something 0 other successful MMO's have been able to do.
A studio only has so many production hours and the community is always going to want something new and different no matter what, there is an exact 0% chance Intrepid can do everything that everyone wants as far as guild information goes. We're all here for Ashes of creation and super psyched about the game myself, but IMO, and I mean it with all due respect, this is not a very well thought out ideal. Can you name 1 maybe 2 MMO's that have had any form of success that do not have an API tie in somewhere? (not talking addons either)
(edit: im talking about serving data, not having it put information back in game)
You want everyone to be able to check up on guild recruits and enable all the toxicity of elitism.
I would tell you eve online. or Guidl Wars. both have vastly different API processes, yet Spies and all that exist in both. API's also combat that but you, like Steven are conflating API with total informational access. Which is just... not... how it works... API Data Retrieval can be limited and controlled entirely. its not like a firehose on or off.
Im talking "Guild member counts, Raids completed, PVP kills by whole guild or etc, World bosses" stuff like that. Im not talking about "Guild members meet up on tuesday after it rains at 3PM and throw gold in the air, go steal it."
Again, Someone else who probably has never even heard of an API outside of tag lines on video games. Not how it works.
Elitism/Competition is relevant. Just because you dont like something doesnt make it bad. Just makes it different. Just like me saying the API should be enabled, isnt bad, or steven isnt bad for disagreeing with me. Its just that a disagreement. Which I believe comes to misunderstanding of the technology. I build and work with API's every day for work.
Also to stack on. the guilds dont have to enable the API. Look at permission sets for what you'd want. GUild can manage and run and the player can limit it themselves even if the guild enables. it follow a very generalized ideal of Zero Trust. Check this.
These are all rulesets you can set or take away. You do not have to enable everything. You could tell your guild you arent comfortable with information being shared and viola, problem solved. the guild can limit it, or not use the API at all.
So all I am saying is, do some research on API. It doesnt have to be everything youve ever done in the game. You're conflating it with WoW or Eve where you CAN see everything. WoW doesnt even have a permission set i dont believe. Eve runs permission set and options. From the Corp(Guild) level, Alliance Level, and Character level. All easy to manage. THats all Im saying. I do not want a WoW level API setup, thats jank and trash. terrible implementation across the board.
BUT. Ashes could enable Guild information level scraping with permission sets so guilds can either allow or disallow, based on an ALL, or based on where they choose to give permissions.
(Using Eve since Ashes notes Eve Online as an inspiration for parts of the game)
Keep manual logs if you really want to keep track of player counts and detailed raid completion, but the game shouldn’t be feeding info to you in a way that can be automated.
I get that the last decade or so people have just been trained to use API's and 3rd party tools to succeed.
Steven thinks that a game shouldn't need those to be enjoyable. Let's give him a chance to show us.
Not sure if external tools hit the same pain points as pay to win (although some might interpret charging for tools to be just that), but I am sure there’s a fine line between a good tool and an exploitative one. Free, open source tools are less likely due to a number of reasons that Steven has hinted at in the past. That won’t stop others from building them with whatever resources are available, even if that’s just human intelligence. It’s a social game, participants want tools, will create tools and will use tools.
Like this a lot, its ben done in a few games, so not ground breaking.