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What is the advantage of choosing the same archetype as class?
Wumpus Amungus
Member, Alpha Two
What do I gain by going Ranger/Ranger as opposed to going Ranger/Fighter or Ranger/Mage?
1
Comments
Of course, we know very little about the augment schools that a class will provide, and even less about what each augment school will do. The teasers for mage secondaries were: fire, lightning, frost and teleport augments IIRC
Go! Go! Powerrangers!
Haha. Looks like they ran out of helmets so the yellow goofball helmet was thrown into the last shots. Either that or its some japenese find and search toon which waves.
Pretty much the end of the thread right here lol
Its the most extreme form of risk vs reward.
I would imagine by doubling down on your archetype will most likely make you even better at your archetype's CORE role.
I've said for a long time that I think trying to make augments for a secondary archetype that are good for both applying to that same base archeype AND onto others will not be feasable and that augment sets will need to be customized to each of the 64 classes. While this would SEEM like a lot more work it's really not. The same number of Skill/augment combinations still exist.
When we know what each archetype offers as augments it will probably be as simplistic as that.
Probably stronger Abilities of your same, original Archetype/Class.
Probably better/longer-lasting/superior Stealth as a Rogue,
probably better/stronger/further Shots as a Ranger,
probably being EVEN MORE tanky/sturdy as a Tank,
probably slice and dice even more capable as a Fighter or a Rogue, (<- DoubleRogue is "Assassin")
More blinking/teleporting as a Mage ? Faster Casting-Time ? Cooldowns reduced how often You can spam an Icy-Storm, thicc Fireballs - or Lighting-Spells ??
Strongest Heals ever as a Cleric who choose Cleric as secondary Archetype as well ??
I could imagine that it enhances and strengthens what You already have.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
Personally, I think it makes sense for the double-down archetypes to provide advantageous stat distributions. The original idea for archetypes (I don't know if this is still the case) was that your stats would be modified by your archetype. For example;
Fighter: +20% STR/-30% INT/+0% AGI/+10% CON
Ranger: -20%STR/10%INT/+20% AGI/-10% CON
If you go RANGER/FIGHTER your stats now look like this;
Strider: +10%STR/-30%INT/+20%Agi/+0%CON
But if you go RANGER/RANGER your stats look like this;
Hawkeye: -20%STR/+20%INT/+30%AGi/-20%CON
So you take on bigger penalties to the stats you don't really use as a Ranger, but in return you gain a bigger bonus to the stats that you really want. If you want to play the quintessential Ranged Ranger, the Hawkeye gives you ultra-specialization at the cost of durability and utility.
However, if you want to play a hybrid Ranger that has some ability to dish out damage in melee and is a little more durable, the Strider still gives you a better stat spread for building that type of character.
And I, in turn, will disagree with this one.
I don't think that stat distributions are the way to go here, even if they're easier to understand, because they're not as controllable, and they're 'too easy to understand' in a way that would probably be either misleading or meta.
But, with the current combat style of Ashes, I can see why it might be difficult to actually use the doubled-down augments properly.
I'll continue to hope that specialization can be achieved in the same way that we've seen in the past, where empowerment against defenses is the thing you get, making the character more consistent at doing the single thing they want to do against varying targets.
Stat buffing doesn't innately do this, and in my opinion/experience, often fails terribly at it, leading to unpleasant (imo) gameplay.
I suppose Ranger augments could be applied to a melee ability and turn it into a ranged ability or increase the range or area of effect of certain abilities. But how would that work with Ranger/Ranger?
Interestingly I again feel the exact opposite, because the 'Carry' itemization options in MOBAs (Predecessor being the main one that comes to mind) are almost always the ones most flexibly 'inserted' into basically any other attack build.
And I'm not necessarily talking about the simple 'hit harder' or 'attack faster' ones either, though obviously, debuffing against damage or getting Penetration options would suit every Ranger player I can think of, while still not requiring it to be Ranged (and then it could be Ranged whenever that was suitable).
Also, Rangers might get 'retreating mobility' or 'certain CC types' in the Augment space. It would be best for everyone, I think, if specific types of CC could be restricted to certain Archetypes, Augment wise.
e.g. Tanks have Knockbacks, Fighters have Slows/Staggers, Rangers have Snares and Roots, Rogues have Detargeting and punish-bleeds.
So if Rangers already have snares and roots, what would a RANGER augment on a RANGER look like to you?
My expectation would be that most Ranger abilities don't Snare or Root, a few do relatively powerful Snares/Roots.
Then the others would be able to be augmented with weaker Snares/Roots, and the ones that already have it could be enhanced to be slightly more powerful/longer duration Snares/Roots. That's what I'd expect from doubling down.
Applying the Snare/Root 'augment' to an ability that only affects the Ranger could be applied as something that gives the Ranger a status which causes the enemy to be snared/rooted after attacking them a certain number of times within a specific time period.
The latter is an example of the sort of thing I feel could be applied to many neutral or defensive abilities across many clases. You would just know that /Rangers in general have 'Brambles' or whatever and if you try to hit them and they heal/buff/pop a defensive ability, that you're going to be rooted or snared if you keep attacking them.
For example Ranger/Ranger Hawkeye could gain an incresse in their range above what archery normally allows (as far as I know a Ranger shoots bows the same distance as anyone else even when using their skills). So this gives you a bit of a Robin Hood fantasy and makes then unique even relative to the base archetype Ranger.
You could put a Root Augment on Mark of the Tiger.
So many assumptions, so many guesses
Things like that
you double down on your class instead of tilting the scales towards something else.
for instance, a cleric / cleric might have more healins than a cleric / tank but less cc or survability, or less damage than a cleric / rogue.
we also have to consider elemental damage.for example, a ranger / ranger might get more nature damage but a ranger / rogue will change his damage type to dark.
It means fleshing out what each class is supposed to mean/be. The class names should help sort that out.
Secondary augments could do a number of things:
1 - Replace a primary ability with a base ability from the secondary archetype
2 - Enhance a primary ability to make it stronger
3 - Add to a primary ability with a major secondary effect
4 - Improve the primary ability and add a minor secondary effect
5 - Alter a primary ability to fit the style of the class
6 - Add to the base abilities so that the player may use both the original primary ability and the secondary ability, but the player has to swap out another base ability