Y_on wrote: » When compared to the other Melodies? 20% move, 1% magic power mana regen, life steal, or the healing buff HoT? +10% damage to all enemies doesn't seem underpowered imo. Especially when you can just bring another dps in a Bard's stead. What if your party is well geared or good players and just doesn't need much in the way of healing? Bard is kinda lost there. But again, making it so you only need a single Bard for a Raid Boss debuff really diminishes the need for multiple bards in a raid imo. Making it a party wide buff like the other Melodies are doesn't make Bards necessary in each party, but still increases their usefulness beyond a single bard in a raid.
George_Black wrote: » Man change your avatar. It's an eyesore
Y_on wrote: » What if your party is well geared or good players and just doesn't need much in the way of healing? Bard is kinda lost there.
Depraved wrote: » well, not having mana is an issue xD id expect every raid to bring a bard that focuses on the mana regen skill. also, not needing too many bards is a good thing, since that's always the least played class. we will hopefully have enough since it seems a lot of RPers like playing a bard.
Noaani wrote: » Being able to imagine situations where something isn't how you want it isn't helpful to any discussion. If your groups is well geared and taking on content for players that are not well geared, you have more important things to question than the usefulness of a bard. There is no reason to not be taking on content that is a challenge to your gear level, so the entire notion of being well geared and not needing much in the way of healing simply shouldn't ever be a situation that comes up.
Taleof2Cities wrote: » Your assumption ... which I think is flawed but will be tested in Alpha 2 ... is that ONLY Bards with Menacing Melody will be useful. There will be other Bards bringing other support setups (or even Bards with DPS or tank secondary augments) that will be useful in the raid. It's way too early to declare Menacing Melody the meta raid support skill ... when the Combat Team will be pulling levers on balance in Alpha 2 and into Beta.
Y_on wrote: » By making Menacing Melody a debuff to the boss/mobs in a raid, it essentially says you only -need- one Bard in 40 players for this valuable buff. That gives a great value to ONE bard. For other bards to be desirable, or at the least not detrimental, they also need to provide significant value otherwise what's the point when you can just bring another dps/healer? By making Menacing Melody a party-wide buff (like all the other Melodies Bards have), it adds to the value of ALL Bards in the raid.
Noaani wrote: » It isn't all that useful if you are solo or in a small group. You realistically need 12 or more people to make it worthwhile.
Taerrik wrote: » 10% is 10%
Noaani wrote: » Taerrik wrote: » 10% is 10% 10% of 10 is 1. 10% of 1000 is 100. Since the cost of running the melody is the same, the actual value of it is based on how much damage you are already doing. However, the thing to keep in mind is that even this isn't necessarily true - if you are against an encounter that you already have enough DPS present to defeat, all that melody does is save a little bit of time - and it will be less time saved than the run speed boost. Again, there are indeed times when that 10% damage boost will be clutch. There are also, however, many times when it won't be.
Y_on wrote: » Depraved wrote: » well, not having mana is an issue xD id expect every raid to bring a bard that focuses on the mana regen skill. also, not needing too many bards is a good thing, since that's always the least played class. we will hopefully have enough since it seems a lot of RPers like playing a bard. Sure, I agree. A raid of 40 should not -require- a bard for each group, but it should be helpful (or, at the very least, not be detrimental if one chose to do so). I'm of the opinion that in a raid, a bard in a group should bring as much utility to balance losing a dps slot. That is why Menacing Melody should be balanced to be a party-wide buff like the other melodies, and not a Debuff to the environment (which, in effect, makes it Raid-wide). I've seen a bit of hype for bard in the communities I frequent, so I'm hoping they're more prevalent than in other games. I was a tank for over a decade, and I think I'll be switching to bard main. Noaani wrote: » Being able to imagine situations where something isn't how you want it isn't helpful to any discussion. If your groups is well geared and taking on content for players that are not well geared, you have more important things to question than the usefulness of a bard. There is no reason to not be taking on content that is a challenge to your gear level, so the entire notion of being well geared and not needing much in the way of healing simply shouldn't ever be a situation that comes up. I think this is pulling away from the point I was attempting to address with this post. I'm trying to give value to the Bard class. By making Menacing Melody a debuff to the boss/mobs in a raid, it essentially says you only -need- one Bard in 40 players for this valuable buff. That gives a great value to ONE bard. For other bards to be desirable, or at the least not detrimental, they also need to provide significant value otherwise what's the point when you can just bring another dps/healer? By making Menacing Melody a party-wide buff (like all the other Melodies Bards have), it adds to the value of ALL Bards in the raid. You could argue this is true for any class that gives a raid wide buff or boss debuff, but those other classes will also likely be dps or healers, to which they bring other value such as DPS or Healing. Bards are purely support and should not be able to push the same numbers for dps as dps, or heals for heals. Therefore, for them to have value they should be able to complement all other members in their party to an extent that it balances that loss of an additional dps/healer.
