General armour stat idea

One that I haven't really seen before but would love to see is using different armor sub types to give players a stat that is better at reducing certain damage loads.

For example
Chain mail armor reduces incoming physical damage
15% from attacks that would deal between 0 and 35% of the players max hp
30% from attacks that deal deal between 35% and 65% of the players max hp
10% from attacks that deal deal between 65% and 100% of the players max hp

Plate armor reduces incoming physical damage
75% from attacks that would deal between 0 and 35% of the players max hp
35% from attacks that deal deal between 35% and 65% of the players max hp
5% from attacks that deal deal between 65% and 100% of the players max hp

Lamellar armor reduces incoming physical damage
15% from attacks that would deal between 0 and 35% of the players max hp
35% from attacks that deal deal between 35% and 65% of the players max hp
65% from attacks that deal deal between 65% and 100% of the players max hp

This is just an example and the numbers are just relative examples but have no actual significance. Additionally this idea is replicable across cloth armor and medium/studded armor as well.

Thoughts?

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George_Black

What will this achieve?
Plate armor would mostly reduce dmg from chars that dont spec in dmg, or the playstyle revolves around different hits, rather than big number hits, and let chars that spec in a lot of dmg make the most of it?

Then you have skills within the same character that differ in power. The plate would counter the dmg component of mixed effect skills, but let the killing skills work in almost full potential?
The opposite for Lamellar whatever this word means?

Ludullu

I gotta make sure that I understood this correctly. Does "attacks that deal 65-100" mean "stuff that can one-shot a person" or does it mean "attacks that are dealt when the target is at over 65% hp"?

Cause I'm not sure if first works well in the context of buffs/debuffs/statuses/etc. Theoretically, one type of attack could be at any range of dmg dealing to a target, cause the target could be fully buffed into resistances against that specific attack or it could be the other way around.

And then I'd have to ask, who would NOT use Plate while buffing themselves for max def/res? Cause at that point you're cutting down insane amounts of damage against yourself.

And if it's the latter understanding, then I do think it'd be an interesting design, especially if we get a lot of skills that interact with our hp values (i.e. blood fusion on the fighter). People would be able to make builds that rely on low hp survival while they're max boosted due to buffs that depend on that state, while glass canon builds would probably want their first 35% of hp defended better, cause that would allow them to use their entire skillset w/o fear of dying or getting finished off by some ability that punishes being at low hp.

Voxtrium

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

I gotta make sure that I understood this correctly. Does "attacks that deal 65-100" mean "stuff that can one-shot a person" or does it mean "attacks that are dealt when the target is at over 65% hp"?

Cause I'm not sure if first works well in the context of buffs/debuffs/statuses/etc. Theoretically, one type of attack could be at any range of dmg dealing to a target, cause the target could be fully buffed into resistances against that specific attack or it could be the other way around.

And then I'd have to ask, who would NOT use Plate while buffing themselves for max def/res? Cause at that point you're cutting down insane amounts of damage against yourself.

And if it's the latter understanding, then I do think it'd be an interesting design, especially if we get a lot of skills that interact with our hp values (i.e. blood fusion on the fighter). People would be able to make builds that rely on low hp survival while they're max boosted due to buffs that depend on that state, while glass canon builds would probably want their first 35% of hp defended better, cause that would allow them to use their entire skillset w/o fear of dying or getting finished off by some ability that punishes being at low hp.

It does between 65% and 100% of your max hp post mitigation. Which type you use would be based on the damage you receive most often. Plate would most certainly not be very useful against a dot for example

Ludullu

Voxtrium wrote: »

It does between 65% and 100% of your max hp post mitigation. Which type you use would be based on the damage you receive most often. Plate would most certainly not be very useful against a dot for example

So armor would not be included in the mitigation calculations? Or just this part of armor effects wouldn't be? Feels kinda weird to me.

And dots are way more easily healed, so having armor that makes healing one-shots easier would just mean that clerics have a way easier job keeping plated people alive, which, to me, screams "meta".

Obviously would have to be tested to know for sure, but that's just the first thing that stands out in this kind of design.

Voxtrium

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Voxtrium wrote: »

It does between 65% and 100% of your max hp post mitigation. Which type you use would be based on the damage you receive most often. Plate would most certainly not be very useful against a dot for example

So armor would not be included in the mitigation calculations? Or just this part of armor effects wouldn't be? Feels kinda weird to me.

And dots are way more easily healed, so having armor that makes healing one-shots easier would just mean that clerics have a way easier job keeping plated people alive, which, to me, screams "meta".

Obviously would have to be tested to know for sure, but that's just the first thing that stands out in this kind of design.

Post mitigation outside of that stat alone - the armor would still provide all of its normal stats which are included in the post mitigation calculation.

Perhaps it would create too strong of an armor correlation to certain bosses as well. You may be right tbh im unsure, it was just an idea for a potential stat type.

Lodrig

I'd rather see some variation in the elemental resistence of amor types to provide some counter-play to mages and elemental damage types. Magest will have all three elements ofcurse so they will always have available means to evade these resistences but they need to be a bit more inteligent then just spamming their spells maybe selecting who to launch what at based on the armor they are wearing.

Cloth reduces frost debuffs
Leather reduces fire debuffs
Metal reduces lighting debuffs (because farady cage)

This breaks us a littlebit out of the heavy metal armor always being 'best' because of its obviously higher physical damage protection. Note these are just minimum default resistences, all the normal ability to buff, modify and enhance gear can be layered on top, but it will be enough that simple observation of armor would give a strong indicator of the highest elemental resistence the character has.

Voxtrium

Lodrig wrote: »

I'd rather see some variation in the elemental resistence of amor types to provide some counter-play to mages and elemental damage types. Magest will have all three elements ofcurse so they will always have available means to evade these resistences but they need to be a bit more inteligent then just spamming their spells maybe selecting who to launch what at based on the armor they are wearing.

Cloth reduces frost debuffs
Leather reduces fire debuffs
Metal reduces lighting debuffs (because farady cage)

This breaks us a littlebit out of the heavy metal armor always being 'best' because of its obviously higher physical damage protection. Note these are just minimum default resistences, all the normal ability to buff, modify and enhance gear can be layered on top, but it will be enough that simple observation of armor would give a strong indicator of the highest elemental resistence the character has.

My original idea is in conjunction with any additional stats, so I see no reason not to include both.

Azherae

I'd oppose it, but not much.

It's adding more specific forms of understanding to something that can just be represented differently.

Also I'd feel way more positive toward a game that didn't even really have any significant option for 'damage that deals 65-100% of a player's HP' in common situations.

I also feel that it would be hard to explain and end up being a noob trap as described.

It's not really that I don't like the concept of this sort of thing, it's just complicated and raises a lot of design questions that I would prefer players get to avoid as much as possible.

As for this sort of thing in general, I feel like TL's method requires the least 'direct understanding/number crunching' of the current MMO crop, I like the way that Predecessor designs and labels defense items almost as much, and like Lodrig, I like the elemental defense options (unsurprising, as an FFXI player, I guess).

But I don't think the FFXI version does a good enough job of making players really 'feel' the difference intuitively (it's more of a thing players pick up on over time), the TL version is too flat, and the Predecessor form of it would need to take aspects of the other two, to result in a clear, positive experience in an MMO. It might also be impossible to make it feel good in an MMO that uses %-chance-of-resisting-status much more often than 'status duration reduction' such as Ashes.

So I guess my input is 'considering that Ashes is expecting to be complex, they might as well do it properly'.

Apok

For something like BG3 I think this would work, but lets say you have to usual resistances like blunt, slash, etc.
and chain mail has slash resistance you can pick up on that and just know that swords and axes won't work as well on this guy.

With your system in my mind I would have to wait to see what my damage is like before I can make judgement calls and by that time I'm already in combat with someone. also from a dev perspective I feel like this would tax their workload because now you have post damage calculations being done on everything.

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