bloodprophet wrote: » There have been plenty of times I have on raids, dungeons or open world stuff to help guildies or friends knowing full well before I started I would get nothing more then a thank you and a repair bill. You?
Kleptix wrote: » My favorite loot system is Elder Scrolls Online - Everyone gets their own loot! Party members in dungeons / raids can trade or sell their loot to other party members that completed the content for up to an hour after completion. I have yet to find a more rewarding system than this.
Caeryl wrote: » Pham wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Pham wrote: » The bottom line is, if a system can be abused, it will be - at some point. I don't know that there are any "abuse-proof" systems, in the strictest sense. I think the most correct thing that we know to do, currently, is just to punish the people who abuse the systems when it happens to discourage others from doing the same. For ex, a group that is comprised mostly of guild members but needed a few more randoms to join to fill out the group. They finish some piece of difficult content and then the group leader who is a member of the guild kicks all the non-guild members of the group so they don't get a piece of the loot they rightly earned. Now, there are mechanics and checks you can put in place to make this type of abuse less likely to happen, but it could fundamentally change how loot is distributed and not necessarily for the better. For ex, a system whereby loot is allowed to be needed/greeded on, even to people who get kicked from the party as long as they were in the party when the content was finished (boss downed, or w/e). But this could be abused as well. For ex, you have 3 party members who did nothing or went afk during the middle of the boss fight or even just before and the party leader is too busy to notice or to do anything about it in the heat of the moment and so they remain in the party until they are finished. Those 3 people arguably should not be privy to the loot since they didn't contribute (and this could be on purpose, mind you) but in the above proposed loot system "fix" it would still give them a roll at the loot even if they were kicked before loot was distributed. So, either way it can still be abused. I'm not saying it's necessarily impossible to make something that won't or can't be abused, but I don't think I have ever seen it. And just because I can't immediately think of a way to abuse it doesn't mean there isn't a way or that someone else won't find one either. So.. back to my original thought about catching and punishing abusers. The only determinant factors on getting loot should be: 1) were you in the group that won looting rights at the time the boss died 2) did you contribute to the fight in a meaningful way 3) do you have advancements in the Gathering profession that this boss would fall under (hunter for a beast, miner for a golem etc) These are all things the game knows, and regarding point 2, players are actually barred from knowing that information because Steven won’t allow combat metrics logging in any capacity for some reason. The only way to handle loot in a truly fair way is to have the game allocate it based on specific developer-established criteria, and to have enough non-gear loot in the form of recipes and craft mats drop that it always feels rewarding to be a part of the group that won the dps race. If it is handled in this way, then hopefully all the items you get are tradable, otherwise you might end up getting something you didn't want or really wanted a friend to get/have and not being able to do anything about it. Nothing* in Ashes is intended to be soul bound, so yeah everyone can freely trade afterwards if they want to. Edit: *very few items might be but we haven’t seen any of them so far so I’m hoping they’ll stick with no BoP
Pham wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Pham wrote: » The bottom line is, if a system can be abused, it will be - at some point. I don't know that there are any "abuse-proof" systems, in the strictest sense. I think the most correct thing that we know to do, currently, is just to punish the people who abuse the systems when it happens to discourage others from doing the same. For ex, a group that is comprised mostly of guild members but needed a few more randoms to join to fill out the group. They finish some piece of difficult content and then the group leader who is a member of the guild kicks all the non-guild members of the group so they don't get a piece of the loot they rightly earned. Now, there are mechanics and checks you can put in place to make this type of abuse less likely to happen, but it could fundamentally change how loot is distributed and not necessarily for the better. For ex, a system whereby loot is allowed to be needed/greeded on, even to people who get kicked from the party as long as they were in the party when the content was finished (boss downed, or w/e). But this could be abused as well. For ex, you have 3 party members who did nothing or went afk during the middle of the boss fight or even just before and the party leader is too busy to notice or to do anything about it in the heat of the moment and so they remain in the party until they are finished. Those 3 people arguably should not be privy to the loot since they didn't contribute (and this could be on purpose, mind you) but in the above proposed loot system "fix" it would still give them a roll at the loot even if they were kicked before loot was distributed. So, either way it can still be abused. I'm not saying it's necessarily impossible to make something that won't or can't be abused, but I don't think I have ever seen it. And just because I can't immediately think of a way to abuse it doesn't mean there isn't a way or that someone else won't find one either. So.. back to my original thought about catching and punishing abusers. The only determinant factors on getting loot should be: 1) were you in the group that won looting rights at the time the boss died 2) did you contribute to the fight in a meaningful way 3) do you have advancements in the Gathering profession that this boss would fall under (hunter for a beast, miner for a golem etc) These are all things the game knows, and regarding point 2, players are actually barred from knowing that information because Steven won’t allow combat metrics logging in any capacity for some reason. The only way to handle loot in a truly fair way is to have the game allocate it based on specific developer-established criteria, and to have enough non-gear loot in the form of recipes and craft mats drop that it always feels rewarding to be a part of the group that won the dps race. If it is handled in this way, then hopefully all the items you get are tradable, otherwise you might end up getting something you didn't want or really wanted a friend to get/have and not being able to do anything about it.
Caeryl wrote: » Pham wrote: » The bottom line is, if a system can be abused, it will be - at some point. I don't know that there are any "abuse-proof" systems, in the strictest sense. I think the most correct thing that we know to do, currently, is just to punish the people who abuse the systems when it happens to discourage others from doing the same. For ex, a group that is comprised mostly of guild members but needed a few more randoms to join to fill out the group. They finish some piece of difficult content and then the group leader who is a member of the guild kicks all the non-guild members of the group so they don't get a piece of the loot they rightly earned. Now, there are mechanics and checks you can put in place to make this type of abuse less likely to happen, but it could fundamentally change how loot is distributed and not necessarily for the better. For ex, a system whereby loot is allowed to be needed/greeded on, even to people who get kicked from the party as long as they were in the party when the content was finished (boss downed, or w/e). But this could be abused as well. For ex, you have 3 party members who did nothing or went afk during the middle of the boss fight or even just before and the party leader is too busy to notice or to do anything about it in the heat of the moment and so they remain in the party until they are finished. Those 3 people arguably should not be privy to the loot since they didn't contribute (and this could be on purpose, mind you) but in the above proposed loot system "fix" it would still give them a roll at the loot even if they were kicked before loot was distributed. So, either way it can still be abused. I'm not saying it's necessarily impossible to make something that won't or can't be abused, but I don't think I have ever seen it. And just because I can't immediately think of a way to abuse it doesn't mean there isn't a way or that someone else won't find one either. So.. back to my original thought about catching and punishing abusers. The only determinant factors on getting loot should be: 1) were you in the group that won looting rights at the time the boss died 2) did you contribute to the fight in a meaningful way 3) do you have advancements in the Gathering profession that this boss would fall under (hunter for a beast, miner for a golem etc) These are all things the game knows, and regarding point 2, players are actually barred from knowing that information because Steven won’t allow combat metrics logging in any capacity for some reason. The only way to handle loot in a truly fair way is to have the game allocate it based on specific developer-established criteria, and to have enough non-gear loot in the form of recipes and craft mats drop that it always feels rewarding to be a part of the group that won the dps race.
Pham wrote: » The bottom line is, if a system can be abused, it will be - at some point. I don't know that there are any "abuse-proof" systems, in the strictest sense. I think the most correct thing that we know to do, currently, is just to punish the people who abuse the systems when it happens to discourage others from doing the same. For ex, a group that is comprised mostly of guild members but needed a few more randoms to join to fill out the group. They finish some piece of difficult content and then the group leader who is a member of the guild kicks all the non-guild members of the group so they don't get a piece of the loot they rightly earned. Now, there are mechanics and checks you can put in place to make this type of abuse less likely to happen, but it could fundamentally change how loot is distributed and not necessarily for the better. For ex, a system whereby loot is allowed to be needed/greeded on, even to people who get kicked from the party as long as they were in the party when the content was finished (boss downed, or w/e). But this could be abused as well. For ex, you have 3 party members who did nothing or went afk during the middle of the boss fight or even just before and the party leader is too busy to notice or to do anything about it in the heat of the moment and so they remain in the party until they are finished. Those 3 people arguably should not be privy to the loot since they didn't contribute (and this could be on purpose, mind you) but in the above proposed loot system "fix" it would still give them a roll at the loot even if they were kicked before loot was distributed. So, either way it can still be abused. I'm not saying it's necessarily impossible to make something that won't or can't be abused, but I don't think I have ever seen it. And just because I can't immediately think of a way to abuse it doesn't mean there isn't a way or that someone else won't find one either. So.. back to my original thought about catching and punishing abusers.
Pham wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Pham wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Pham wrote: » The bottom line is, if a system can be abused, it will be - at some point. I don't know that there are any "abuse-proof" systems, in the strictest sense. I think the most correct thing that we know to do, currently, is just to punish the people who abuse the systems when it happens to discourage others from doing the same. For ex, a group that is comprised mostly of guild members but needed a few more randoms to join to fill out the group. They finish some piece of difficult content and then the group leader who is a member of the guild kicks all the non-guild members of the group so they don't get a piece of the loot they rightly earned. Now, there are mechanics and checks you can put in place to make this type of abuse less likely to happen, but it could fundamentally change how loot is distributed and not necessarily for the better. For ex, a system whereby loot is allowed to be needed/greeded on, even to people who get kicked from the party as long as they were in the party when the content was finished (boss downed, or w/e). But this could be abused as well. For ex, you have 3 party members who did nothing or went afk during the middle of the boss fight or even just before and the party leader is too busy to notice or to do anything about it in the heat of the moment and so they remain in the party until they are finished. Those 3 people arguably should not be privy to the loot since they didn't contribute (and this could be on purpose, mind you) but in the above proposed loot system "fix" it would still give them a roll at the loot even if they were kicked before loot was distributed. So, either way it can still be abused. I'm not saying it's necessarily impossible to make something that won't or can't be abused, but I don't think I have ever seen it. And just because I can't immediately think of a way to abuse it doesn't mean there isn't a way or that someone else won't find one either. So.. back to my original thought about catching and punishing abusers. The only determinant factors on getting loot should be: 1) were you in the group that won looting rights at the time the boss died 2) did you contribute to the fight in a meaningful way 3) do you have advancements in the Gathering profession that this boss would fall under (hunter for a beast, miner for a golem etc) These are all things the game knows, and regarding point 2, players are actually barred from knowing that information because Steven won’t allow combat metrics logging in any capacity for some reason. The only way to handle loot in a truly fair way is to have the game allocate it based on specific developer-established criteria, and to have enough non-gear loot in the form of recipes and craft mats drop that it always feels rewarding to be a part of the group that won the dps race. If it is handled in this way, then hopefully all the items you get are tradable, otherwise you might end up getting something you didn't want or really wanted a friend to get/have and not being able to do anything about it. Nothing* in Ashes is intended to be soul bound, so yeah everyone can freely trade afterwards if they want to. Edit: *very few items might be but we haven’t seen any of them so far so I’m hoping they’ll stick with no BoP What about glint? Is that planned to be tradable at some point? If so, can you point me to where that was stated?
bloodprophet wrote: » Me,me,me,me,me,me...... That's all this thread is? A rising tide lifts all ships. When people on the TEAM become stronger the whole team becomes stronger. Is amazing how self centered some of you are. Someone on my team got something and I didn't Whaaaaaa!! Learn to celebrate your friends and team mates victories. Get it next time or maybe the time after. This is supposed to be a multiplayer game not another single player game pretending to be an MMO.
