Noaani wrote: » I mean, I could cite myself here, as I have been a guest lecturer for graduate level statistics (note, guest), but I somehow don't think you would accept that.
Enigmatic Sage wrote: » You seem quite ignorant and arrogant.
Noaani wrote: » What I am trying to do, while you are kicking and screaming refusing it, is to educate you.
Noaani wrote: » You shouldn't need a source for this, you should just be able to see that it is wrong by looking at the results you got.
Noaani wrote: » You took the results of a poll, averaged them, and the result was unsurprisingly in the middle of the options given. Since the bulk of votes were made at either end, the middle ground represents the least amount of people.
Noaani wrote: » To then go and say that the poll results are that people want that middle ground is just incorrect
Noaani wrote: » If that is what people wanted, that is what people would have voted for, since there were middle ground options.
Noaani wrote: » Asking for sources for something this basic (this is first week statistics 101), is kind of like asking someone to cite references for the statement that 2+2=4 (though I can give real examples of when even that isn't true).
Flanker wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Whether you did it intentionally or not really doesn't change the fact that you're not supposed to use that data like that in genuine conversation. If you choose to insist on it, then I'll take it as the end of genuine conversation on that aspect of it. The thing is, I don't. I genuinely asked if there is anyone who can provide a decent detailed clarification why those numbers can't be used that way. Dygz may say that I have a "confirmation bias" as many times as he want - it is simply not true. I would have literally 0 issues with agreeing, if someone actually does what I ask for in a proper way, not just "It's wrong". I don't mind being proven wrong, as in the end of the day that would make reconsider my opinions and evolve as a human being.This is all about you being in control and your own arrogance. I would expect behavior like yours from a child but not an adult of 32 years I think thats why people were wondering your age.. A person who is trying to enlighten or evolve themselves doesn't talk or act the way you do. The moment you are seriously challenged your attitude towards other people becomes rude, obnoxious and disrespectful. detailed clarificationhttps://math.arizona.edu/~jwatkins/505d/Lesson_12.pdf Maybe this will help you on your evolution Zehlan wrote: » First off Kilion good f*cking job buddy lol your intial post was excellent! My personal opinion I think this is nothing more than click bait for his video or he is big WoW carebare and doesn't comprehend what an actual pvx mmo is all about but considering his articulated responses I would lean heavily toward the former! As you can see, this "kind gentleman" started the conversation with dumb accusations based on thin air, all of which got easily debunked afterwards. In fact, he wasn't really interested in a conversation, he was mostly looking for an echo chamber of like-minde individuals to circleplease each other.I said this because you cried that we need to level slower because of content showing me a lack of pvp driven MMO concept because pvp is if done right is the content. SWG pretty much had no content as it is now in games but people played it for years hunting each other, Dropping faction bases ,people sitting in the cantinas socializing for the whole day they made the content. Eve has no dungeons or anything it's just people making money and players killing other players war is the content generated by players! DAoC I would say the king of pvp/pve MMOs had good pve content for grinding but once you hit level cap that is when the game actually started and they also had pvp battlegrounds for every 5 levels of character i.e. 14-19 then 20 24 etc and those little battlegrounds were the equivalent of New World's siege wars battles. Realm vs realm warfare was the content nobody gave a shit about the pve content after they hit max level and not because it was boring but because the endgame pvp was the most fun and always changing made it irrelevant. Also you have failed to debunk any facts that I have brought forth. The facts-the majority wants 225 hours or 45 day equivalent. Facts the longer the levelling time the more it punishes casual players giving tryhards a distinct advantage over server dominance. Finally i stand by my quote "accusation" I think you posting your video on the forum in a new thread when the old thread you created had died off months ago shows you wanted to use it for clicks otherwise you could of just posted it here in a conversation you had already started but you wanted a fresh crack at it so nobody would see your previous attempt.
Azherae wrote: » Whether you did it intentionally or not really doesn't change the fact that you're not supposed to use that data like that in genuine conversation. If you choose to insist on it, then I'll take it as the end of genuine conversation on that aspect of it.
Zehlan wrote: » First off Kilion good f*cking job buddy lol your intial post was excellent! My personal opinion I think this is nothing more than click bait for his video or he is big WoW carebare and doesn't comprehend what an actual pvx mmo is all about but considering his articulated responses I would lean heavily toward the former!
Zehlan wrote: » This is all about you being in control and your own arrogance.
Zehlan wrote: » I would expect behavior like yours from a child but not an adult of 32 years I think thats why people were wondering your age..
Zehlan wrote: » A person who is trying to enlighten or evolve themselves doesn't talk or act the way you do. The moment you are seriously challenged your attitude towards other people becomes rude, obnoxious and disrespectful.
Zehlan wrote: » My personal opinion I think this is nothing more than click bait for his video or he is big WoW carebare and doesn't comprehend what an actual pvx mmo is all about but considering his articulated responses I would lean heavily toward the former!
Zehlan wrote: » detailed clarificationhttps://math.arizona.edu/~jwatkins/505d/Lesson_12.pdf Maybe this will help you on your evolution
Zehlan wrote: » I said this because you cried that we need to level slower because of content showing me a lack of pvp driven MMO concept because pvp is if done right is the content. SWG pretty much had no content as it is now in games but people played it for years hunting each other, Dropping faction bases ,people sitting in the cantinas socializing for the whole day they made the content. Eve has no dungeons or anything it's just people making money and players killing other players war is the content generated by players! DAoC I would say the king of pvp/pve MMOs had good pve content for grinding but once you hit level cap that is when the game actually started and they also had pvp battlegrounds for every 5 levels of character i.e. 14-19 then 20 24 etc and those little battlegrounds were the equivalent of New World's siege wars battles. Realm vs realm warfare was the content nobody gave a shit about the pve content after they hit max level and not because it was boring but because the endgame pvp was the most fun and always changing made it irrelevant.
Zehlan wrote: » Also you have failed to debunk any facts that I have brought forth.The facts-the majority wants 225 hours or 45 day equivalent.
Zehlan wrote: » Facts the longer the levelling time the more it punishes casual players giving tryhards a distinct advantage over server dominance.
Zehlan wrote: » Finally i stand by my quote "accusation" I think you posting your video on the forum in a new thread when the old thread you created had died off months ago shows you wanted to use it for clicks otherwise you could of just posted it here in a conversation you had already started but you wanted a fresh crack at it so nobody would see your previous attempt.
RocketFarmer wrote: » Weighted average is one method of obtaining an average, but tends to consider some values more than others. It isn’t fake statistics or mathematics. In fact when the weights are the same, then it’s identical to the mathematical mean. Means also tend to be imaginary (meaningless) when the distribution is so wide. Was the poll meant for an election of choice or just a polling of opinion? Was everyone offered to enter their own values or did they pick from a preselected list? Could bias the results. Poll results also tend to identify the opinions of that specific point in time since opinions tend to change over time, therefore you’d need to poll the same people on the same question to get another data point. Even more if you’re trying to determine a trend. So stating there was a poll take months or years ago, therefore it’s settled, isn’t really an argument. I don’t really place that much reliance on polls nor by the statistics derived from them. Especially on a forum for an MMORPG where we do not control development but are invited guests at the table. I’ve stated I am in the slower leveling camp, even the extreme end of that. But I recognize that my opinion doesn’t override Steven’s design nor does it invalidate those who would like leveling to take less time. We’re just on here to push the envelope of ideas that might just end up with a new idea to make a would be game better. However most of the time not. We’re just filling time waiting for Alpha 2 to start. If Intrepid wanted a more accurate measure of leveling speed with player feedback, then they could test that in Alpha 2. Not as a representation of the final release leveling experience, obviously, but just in terms of testing various rates of progression and illiciting feedback. What does a faster or slower rate feel like? Best to do this in Wave 3 so that the various leveling systems are somewhat represented. A simple test would be half of the current rate and double the current rate (2 hrs/level, 4.5 hrs/level, 9 hrs/level). Since I believe Alpha 2 will take 2-5 years to get to Beta 1, there’s plenty of time to experiment and get opinions that would be more grounded with game play/testing. Everyone seems to base their opinions on other games they’ve played, some where slow leveling experiences were positive and others with literal hell levels. Would be interesting to see where Ashes fits in that range. I would also be interested in seeing how the rates change from player experience/knowledge of the game. Theoretically we can say the rate should decrease as player experience increases, but quantifying that is what we need to know. If Ashes is as dynamic a game as Steven intends it to be, then player experience should be less significant on the rate of leveling (whether that’s power leveling or the other types of leveling). That might satisfy a portion of the slower camp, to a degree. And with that would be seeing the rate they can add new content seamlessly to a dynamic environment, which I know we’ll have to wait for the Betas or launch. Until then we have the sand box portion of the game to tinker with, and ideally leveling isn’t as critical for that aspect, but we’ll have to see won’t we.
Flanker wrote: » Enigmatic Sage wrote: » You seem quite ignorant and arrogant. Your arrogance and ignorance clearly has no limits, he wasn't wrong.
Zehlan wrote: » This is all about you being in control and your own arrogance. I would expect behavior like yours from a child but not an adult of 32 years I think thats why people were wondering your age.. A person who is trying to enlighten or evolve themselves doesn't talk or act the way you do. The moment you are seriously challenged your attitude towards other people becomes rude, obnoxious and disrespectful.
Zehlan wrote: » In fact, he wasn't really interested in a conversation, he was mostly looking for an echo chamber of like-minde individuals to circleplease each other.
Orym wrote: » I don't mind either way, slow or fast. As long as there is some other progression after character level. Warhammer online had max level 40 and renown rank lvl 100 (pvp rank). And now with the private server the max rr is 255, wich noone will ever reach. So you did not really feel like you finished the game by any means by reaching 40. It was just one out of several progressions.
Gargoyle_Emperor wrote: » I'd prefer to avoid another game that fast charges to the end where we all mash up against a gear score wall for months.
Gargoyle_Emperor wrote: » That said - due the LONG, immersive play - I would also probably hope for account shared concessions to time, like account-shared faction reputations for example so as to avoid long, repetitive grinds in the same areas with multiple characters.
Noaani wrote: » Back to that whole stalker thing. You've gone back to comments from 3 years ago, and that are about a totally different thing (Streamers, in this case). That really is kind of creepy. I don't even know if the rest of your post had anything worth responding to, because I got that far through and the ick was just too strong.
Dygz wrote: » Flanker wrote a manifesto that he wants everyone to hear.
Dygz wrote: » Made a video about the manifesto that he wants everybody to watch.
Dygz wrote: » On the Ashen Forge he kept reading from the manifesto he had already posted here on the Forums.
Dygz wrote: » And then whined that in 2+ hours of discussion on the Ashen Forge he only got through half of his manifesto and he wants to be able to finish.
Dygz wrote: » Of course, because he took the time to write such an extensive manifesto, it must be perfectly solid logic (no one can give him decent counterpoints, he claims) - he knows better than game devs who created one of the most successful MMORPGs in MMORPG history and is celebrating its 25th year - after all... he's played 4 MMORPGs and read some articles and some comments on YouTube and has data from polls.
Flanker wrote: » P.S. I hereby challenge you or anyone else from this thread who dares to have a 1v1 debate. We can even invite an unbiased moderator if you want.
Flanker wrote: » Zehlan wrote: » Also you have failed to debunk any facts that I have brought forth.The facts-the majority wants 225 hours or 45 day equivalent. Okay, so I'll ask you the same, simple "Yes" or "No" question, alright? Shouldn't be that difficult to answer. Based on what you said, does it mean that you suggest only taking into account the preferences of 55,6% of players who voted for the first option, while completely ignoring 44,4% of the players who voted for "90 days" and higher? Yes or No? I do love the cut and dry no variables just all or nothing question yes 100%! Now we can do this in the opposite as well Closed • 743 total votes 413 45 days 4-6 hours, are good enough. 174 90 days 4-6 hours, I think something more challenging is more exciting and can bring more benefits to the game. 89 180 days 4-6hours, i want be rewarded for every mob killed and that i can also stand out through my level.67 At least a year, i dont care about casuals. The levelling system which you seem to champion is actually in the poll 1 year to max level which represents 8.89% should we make 91.11% have to adapt to the 9% Yes or No? So lets lets look from intrepids side of this, you've been in business apparently quite good at sales by your admission so here is my question for you. If you had a business and you have two demographics to choose from mutually exclusive to sell to each paying 15 dollars per item 1 item per person repeat customer base which demographic would you focus on to sell your goods to? demographic A. representing 56% of the world population or demographic B. representing 9% of the world population
Zehlan wrote: » The levelling system which you seem to champion is actually in the poll 1 year to max level which represents 8.89% should we make 91.11% have to adapt to the 9% Yes or No? So lets lets look from intrepids side of this, you've been in business apparently quite good at sales by your admission so here is my question for you. If you had a business and you have two demographics to choose from mutually exclusive to sell to each paying 15 dollars per item 1 item per person repeat customer base which demographic would you focus on to sell your goods to? demographic A. representing 56% of the world population or demographic B. representing 9% of the world population
Flanker wrote: » Okay, so I'll ask you the same, simple "Yes" or "No" question, alright? Shouldn't be that difficult to answer. Based on what you said, does it mean that you suggest only taking into account the preferences of 55,6% of players who voted for the first option, while completely ignoring 44,4% of the players who voted for "90 days" and higher? Yes or No?
Flanker wrote: » Alright, I gave it a chance and actually read all of it. Haven't learned anything I didn't know already, but the funny thing begins now. You are obviously going to bounce and won't give an answer to this (and entertain me again by saying something unimaginably stupid), but here is the question: can you specify which part exactly was supposed to prove that my calculations are not valid? And now, let me enjoy and see you bounce. Why? Because apparently, you thought that I would either ignore it, not understand what's written there or get overwhelmed by a couple of "scary-looking mathematical formulas". Well, guess again. Can't wait for your answer.
Flanker wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Back to that whole stalker thing. You've gone back to comments from 3 years ago, and that are about a totally different thing (Streamers, in this case). That really is kind of creepy. I don't even know if the rest of your post had anything worth responding to, because I got that far through and the ick was just too strong. I'm a big fan of Stalker. Did you know that Stalker 2 is coming on Nov 20, 2024? Just kidding. Nobody is stalking you. Finding those comments doesn't take more than a few minutes - thanks to your 15,000+ forum comments. Literally open any random thread - and there is gonna be a high chance that someone there write something similar to what I quoted. But yeah, go ahead, play the victim card, follow the trend
Noaani wrote: » Yeah, but a random thread from 3 years ago - that's what makes it creepy. Maybe it is stalkerish, maybe it isn't. Either way, it's sure as hell creepy. If someone I knew did that kind of thing, I'd get a restraining order out against them.
RocketFarmer wrote: » It’s rebuilding the node after the third or fourth time...
