Living as a red player

Hi there,

I know the game is a lot wider in scope than PvP. However I always enjoyed PvP in any game, especially if there is a risk/reward factor involved. Not just killing each other over and over again and the only punishment being waiting a few seconds to be able to respawn.
Hence I always gravitate towards mmo’s with the light or heavy focus on PvP.

This game has a PvX philosophy. From reading I gather the punishment/reward for becoming red currently I dont think PvP will be frequent outside of event.
Do you think if chosen, a red path, will it actually be viable? Can I live somewhere?
Should it even be viable?
Personally for me PvP and actually trying to be better than most people is a big driving factor for me to play games. I get competitive. Personally I hope that towards the end game red playstyle will be a viable option. Where you and your friends can become elite red bandits that live for the thrill of a good fight.

I also know there are other games that cater more towards this ‘need’ or ‘playstyle’
But just wanted to hear what other people think.
I mostly read negative or adverse opinions towards PvP in this community. While I personally would advocate for more of it.

Thanks

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Podgnil

Perhaps another good mechanic for adjusting griefing would be distance from Nod. The closer to the node the crime is committed, the stronger the punishment, and even if in the forest next to the node it will be absurd, but the further from the city and civilization the crime is committed, the weaker the punishment. Everything is within the framework of the concept of risk versus reward) if you want to collect resources in the city alone, and gather a full bag of grass/ore, be prepared to be ganked. If you are a pve hamster and after rogue sat on your back, his horny fingers reach for alt+f4, spin around the nodes, don’t go too far, don’t take risks.

daveywavey

Podgnil wrote: »

It looks like the hand of God meddling into the affairs of mortals

This game is all about the gods meddling in the affairs of mortals. The evil gods attack, the good gods save the mortals, the good gods then bring the mortals back in order to carry on pushing back evil.

daveywavey

draugris wrote: »

Serukka wrote: »

Hi there,

Personally for me PvP and actually trying to be better than most people is a big driving factor for me to play games. I get competitive.
Thanks

Well, it´s actually funny reading this. Tbh I don´t believe you, you don´t want to be competitive, you just want to win, which is fine, but please don´t call it competition.

Haha yeah, becoming Corrupted isn't about "competition", cos it's just them killing somebody that isn't fighting back. There's no competition there.

Githal

The design behind the corruption is that you get reward from killing a green guy that you know he has a lot materials for example which you can steal. and the risk is becoming red.
It is not designed to live as a red player. There is no reward in staying red all the time. Staying red is the risk.

Serukka

Githal wrote: »

The design behind the corruption is that you get reward from killing a green guy that you know he has a lot materials for example which you can steal. and the risk is becoming red.
It is not designed to live as a red player. There is no reward in staying red all the time. Staying red is the risk.

Losing your gear, harsher death punishment i agree with it all.
Do you agree however that you also should be nerfed combat wise?

I feel like that is a bit lame.

RocketFarmer

They are patterning things like Eve Online where there are punishing areas for PVP and areas where any thing goes. The high seas are this games Null Sec Space.

Pendragxn

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Lawless_zones

Sandsquall Desert

The Turquoise Sea

RocketFarmer wrote: »

They are patterning things like Eve Online where there are punishing areas for PVP and areas where any thing goes. The high seas are this games Null Sec Space.

I hope it’s not just the sea we get to have a lawless zone though. It says they’re only a feature for alpha 2 and won’t be used after open sea implementation. Would be nice to have a land area where the corruption system is disabled too. I hope the desert stays as a lawless zone as well as other land areas or biomes.

Would make sense to have Lawless Zones further out towards the edges of the map as they’re further away from nodes or society. Though I like the concept they offer better rewards in those areas will be fun PvX content for sure.

I do hope people make PK/PvP guilds though or live out in these zones or on the open seas as pirates. Having those kinds of things makes the game more interesting and it presents opportunities for PvP.

Otr

daveywavey wrote: »

Podgnil wrote: »

It looks like the hand of God meddling into the affairs of mortals

This game is all about the gods meddling in the affairs of mortals. The evil gods attack, the good gods save the mortals, the good gods then bring the mortals back in order to carry on pushing back evil.

And the Gods keep your storage on your own freehold locked if you are red.
Maybe the storage belongs to the Gods and we only have a license to use it?

Githal

Serukka wrote: »

Githal wrote: »

The design behind the corruption is that you get reward from killing a green guy that you know he has a lot materials for example which you can steal. and the risk is becoming red.
It is not designed to live as a red player. There is no reward in staying red all the time. Staying red is the risk.

Losing your gear, harsher death punishment i agree with it all.
Do you agree however that you also should be nerfed combat wise?

I feel like that is a bit lame.

Good question.
While i understand the logic behind this nerfing. Which is so a camper cant kill you 80.
I dont think that nerfing should be the way it is done. Like If Bounty hunting is earning big rewards, If someone is camping you, all you will need to do is wait 20 min, and there will be bounty hunter that is here to claim the camper head.

so ye.. i also think the nerfing is lame.

CROW3

Much of the push back above is about individuals griefing greens as a ‘bad guy.’ I’m more concerned about large guilds just mopping the field of any greens not in their guild. That scale of griefing will cause mass attrition of the pve player segment, and Ashes will be relegated to an MO2-esque existence.

The corruption system is the weight bearing beam holding up the PvX house. You may not get to live your best life as an rp criminal, but that may come at trade-off of hundreds of players sticking around. I can’t even guess how many subsystems will need to be in place to constantly adjust the pendulum of corruption over time.

Otr

CROW3 wrote: »

Much of the push back above is about individuals griefing greens as a ‘bad guy.’ I’m more concerned about large guilds just mopping the field of any greens not in their guild. That scale of griefing will cause mass attrition of the pve player segment, and Ashes will be relegated to an MO2-esque existence.

The corruption system is the weight bearing beam holding up the PvX house. You may not get to live your best life as an rp criminal, but that may come at trade-off of hundreds of players sticking around. I can’t even guess how many subsystems will need to be in place to constantly adjust the pendulum of corruption over time.

Steven's gamble is that there is a middle way between PvP and PvE and many players will like it.
With the MO2 player count, a singe server with 85 nodes cannot function.
Balancing will be decided by the data gathered during Alpha 2.

Githal

CROW3 wrote: »

Much of the push back above is about individuals griefing greens as a ‘bad guy.’ I’m more concerned about large guilds just mopping the field of any greens not in their guild. That scale of griefing will cause mass attrition of the pve player segment, and Ashes will be relegated to an MO2-esque existence.

The corruption system is the weight bearing beam holding up the PvX house. You may not get to live your best life as an rp criminal, but that may come at trade-off of hundreds of players sticking around. I can’t even guess how many subsystems will need to be in place to constantly adjust the pendulum of corruption over time.

This sounds more like a Zerg problems. Not corruption problems.
There are many other threads about zergs. Some of the idea to fight against them are to:
* dont allow more than 8 members per party group, 40 for raid, but raid groups cant get any rewards from neither pvp nor pvp except raid bosses/quests. AND any player outside your group suffers from friendly fire and is considered enemy. This means if you have 300 players at 1 place you will have 8 different groups each hitting the other
* Making AOE spells that scale with targets. Meaning if you land good aoe you may oneshot 80 players, or AOE spells like the LIVING BOMB for Fre Mage from WOW. WHere after it detonates it attaches to all targets hit, and then they explode and this continues infinity amount of times.
* The unit collision may help little with disorienting the Zerg, since players will be body blocked .
* The big size of the map can help also since you can farm elsewhere, BUT if zerg are not dealt with there will be many zerg groups everywhere, so no where to escape to.
* There can be terrain advantage, where the zone is tight space.
* The loot system will disadvantage Big zerg groups, SInce if you kill a boss with 8 players you may get an item each, and with 300 members you will still get 8 items total for example. This means there will be INFighting in the zerg groups when leaders take the items for themselves and ect.
* Some people think that the Zerg groups will have bad organization since there are too many players, but i think there will be a lot zerg groups with insanely good organization.
* From the look from previous showcases, The dragon mounts will be really good vs zerg groups with the splash dmg
* Craftable siege machines like Catapults from a profession that have movement similar to the caravans, but are anti zerg artillery. Meaning they dont have accuracy and cant hit single targets, but can shoot from big range, and would demolish zergs.
* More dangerous Terrain hazards, like the Lightning, Earthquakes and such, with bigger AOE. with the body block from the collision may prove to be good anti zerg tool.
* Corruption spreading to the whole group when a person from the group kill green player. With this even if the zerg group kills green players countless times, If another zerg group kills them while they are all red, The corrupted zerg group will lose probably loot worth years of farming.

CROW3

Githal wrote: »

This sounds more like a Zerg problems. Not corruption problems.

I don't agree that it's an either/or aspect - the corruption system will govern how zergs zerg. That system will also determine the viability of an individual player to 'play as a red.'

Serukka

CROW3 wrote: »

Githal wrote: »

This sounds more like a Zerg problems. Not corruption problems.

I don't agree that it's an either/or aspect - the corruption system will govern how zergs zerg. That system will also determine the viability of an individual player to 'play as a red.'

Seems everyone does agree that the stat dampening is a bit iffy and that red playstyle should be viable.
How to achieve that with a system punishing enough to discourage rampant ganking by groups is a difficult matter.

Personally don’t have the answers.
Just wish it was possible to be full criminal. But perhaps there is enough pvp gameplay loops where you can be the antagonist to fulfill that need. Tho killing some peoples and taking their goodies to than freely march into town might break that immersion a little.

Caeryl

Serukka wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Githal wrote: »

This sounds more like a Zerg problems. Not corruption problems.

I don't agree that it's an either/or aspect - the corruption system will govern how zergs zerg. That system will also determine the viability of an individual player to 'play as a red.'

Seems everyone does agree that the stat dampening is a bit iffy and that red playstyle should be viable.

No, very few people actually take issue with the stat dampening for consecutive kills, and not even Steven wants a persistent red state to be viable or desirable. That's the whole reason it has scaling penalties for continuing to PK.

Dolyem

The odd thing about corruption is that on one hand, its not meant to be a viable state of existence, is extremely punishing, and is designed to deter griefing specifically. HOWEVER, the Bounty System implies there will be a steady and healthy population of corrupted players if the bounty system is going to have any real viability in Ashes. Its a bit of a contradiction.

CROW3

Dolyem wrote: »

The odd thing about corruption is that on one hand, its not meant to be a viable state of existence, is extremely punishing, and is designed to deter griefing specifically. HOWEVER, the Bounty System implies there will be a steady and healthy population of corrupted players if the bounty system is going to have any real viability in Ashes. Its a bit of a contradiction.

Agreed. It makes much more sense for lawful BHs to be pursuing an equally unlawful bandits. I'd much rather see bandits being related to anti-node behavior (like raiding caravans) instead of being solely defined by griefing other players. Someone brough the whole non-corrupt bandit life up recently, but I forget who...

Ludullu

Serukka wrote: »

Seems everyone does agree that the stat dampening is a bit iffy and that red playstyle should be viable.

No, Red playstyle should not be a thing.

Serukka

Ludullu wrote: »

Serukka wrote: »

Seems everyone does agree that the stat dampening is a bit iffy and that red playstyle should be viable.

No, Red playstyle should not be a thing.

Why do you have this opinion?

Caeryl

Serukka wrote: »

Ludullu wrote: »

Serukka wrote: »

Seems everyone does agree that the stat dampening is a bit iffy and that red playstyle should be viable.

No, Red playstyle should not be a thing.

Why do you have this opinion?

This is the stance Steven has taken in every question about 'perks for Corruption'. He doesn't want to support going red. It's an option, not a play style

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