Change the artsyle before it's too late!

I’ve been following Ashes of Creation for years, and as someone who’s played MMOs my whole life, I’m really excited about the mechanics and systems they’ve promised. But… it’s ugly. When I first saw the concept art and heard Steven’s promise that the game would look nearly identical to it, I was excited. The early artwork was full of life, creativity, and potential. Too bad he lied about that. People aren’t going to spend hundreds of hours and dollars on a game that looks this uninspired. At least, not enough people to make the game last in the long run.
The most successful games of all time are stylized — World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite... These games stand out because their unique art styles give them character and make them recognizable.
Ashes of Creation already feels outdated with its attempt at ‘realistic’ art. It’s not even good realism.

It looks like a collection of generic fantasy assets. With several more years of development ahead, it’s only going to look worse by release if it stays on this path. Realism always ages quickly, leaving games looking unimmersive and boring. Shifting to a stylized art style now would give Ashes the personality and charm it needs to stay relevant for years. If they don’t pivot soon, the game risks getting lost in the sea of other fantasy games, struggling to attract and maintain the loyal audience that MMOs need to thrive.

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JudgeMentalOne

I don't really agree that they need to switch to a MORE styalised approach, and for the record I personally feel that (in the post above with sceenshots assuming the first is concept and the second is in game) the in game ones look BETTER than the concept, definately not in anyway justifing "lied to" from OP at all.

I personally prefer a more realistic look even knowing that soon that "realistic" wont look as so compared to whatever latest and greatest new gen game that gets released. Too many people are focused on graphics these days. Since I started gaming on a SEGA master-system, I have long known that gameplay trumps graphics all the time. The recent resurgance of titles using pixle art and such (as referanced by the OP) just confirms it. If gameplay is good enough, the majority wont care what it looks like.

The post does however bring to mind a slightly intersting (at least to me) question.

In robotics there is a phenomenon which I can't remember the technical term of right now (and CBF looking it up) but basically it is an apparently validated thing (I hesitate to use the word law though it might apply) that basically says;

When making a robot or other machine that takes human form, up to a certain point, the closer it is to what a human actually looks like the more aesthically pleasing it is.

However once it gets too close to being indisdinguisable from a "real" human the more abhorant most people find it.

Basically, if it looks a bit like us, we like it and find it cute. If looks identical to us we instinctively feel it's an abomination that should be destroyed.

Do in game avatars/npcs etc need to follow this principle? I mean they are unliving representaions of us (in the case of avatars) or basically virtual robots (in the case of npcs). As graphics continously improve research into if this is the case or not seems to be something game developers might need to pay attention to.

Kilion

Iridianny wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

I dont understand what we are aiming for here. Do you have images of what you meant that it was promised and how you concluded that it is not going to be delivered anymore/ "has been lied about"?

Check out the character model concept art.

Okay, I did. Has this been confirmed to be the final version of design for Ashes to go live with? I thought that they dialed down the creator options and quality of graphics a lot for the Phase 1 test to primarily focus on net work stability and such.

Has there something been released by Intrepid to inform us that the formerly indicated variety has been scrapped?

daveywavey

I think it looks great already. And it'll only get better as they keep working on it.

Iridianny

Kilion wrote: »

Iridianny wrote: »

Kilion wrote: »

I dont understand what we are aiming for here. Do you have images of what you meant that it was promised and how you concluded that it is not going to be delivered anymore/ "has been lied about"?

Check out the character model concept art.

Has there something been released by Intrepid to inform us that the formerly indicated variety has been scrapped?

I haven’t followed every update perfectly, but there was a livestream where Steven promised it would "look nearly identical to the concept art." That just hasn’t translated to the character models or the overall art style, which looks lifeless.

I also expected most people on this forum to disagree and unable to be reasoned with on this, as many are already invested hundreds or even thousands of dollars into the game. But Intrepid needs more than a handful of investors on board to sustain an MMO long-term. If they want Ashes to thrive for years, they’ll need broader appeal and fresh perspectives beyond those who are already committed.

Uncommon Sense

This is Steven Sharif's passion project. The broader appeal came from the Kick Starter.

Steven wanted to make a game and was prepared to self fund it...

The community is the the investors...

The reason the the community invested into Steven and Intrepid is because we don't want a handful of corporate bodies dictating the long-term viability... Which has nothing to do with player sustainability and everything to do with generating profit.

The community is the 'fresh perspective'

Why would you risk offending those who are 'already committed' to your project.

The game looks perfectly fine for an Alpha 2 test and is well within the concept art

Dygz

I am underwhelmed by the current Character Creator and... feels to me like I prefer the Alpha 1 Character Creator. I'm expecting the Charcter Creator to improve immensely in future Phases.

I do find the art of Dragon Age: The Veilguard to be more inspiring, but... that is a finished game.

Andi

I'd expect the art style to really come through when nodes take on racial characteristics (and when more races come online).

Uncommon Sense

Aged on Drag Veilgaurd is puke inducing chiseled jawlines and pushups for microaggression HR rainbow meeting slop.

Looks just a bit better than Sony/Concord.

I will agree the current character creator is underwhelming...but I am letting it pass as an Alpha 2 and that it has boob sliders...

SoSpokeMika

Iridianny wrote: »

I’ve been following Ashes of Creation for years, and as someone who’s played MMOs my whole life, I’m really excited about the mechanics and systems they’ve promised. But… it’s ugly. When I first saw the concept art and heard Steven’s promise that the game would look nearly identical to it, I was excited. The early artwork was full of life, creativity, and potential. Too bad he lied about that. People aren’t going to spend hundreds of hours and dollars on a game that looks this uninspired. At least, not enough people to make the game last in the long run.
The most successful games of all time are stylized — World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite... These games stand out because their unique art styles give them character and make them recognizable.
Ashes of Creation already feels outdated with its attempt at ‘realistic’ art. It’s not even good realism. It looks like a collection of generic fantasy assets. With several more years of development ahead, it’s only going to look worse by release if it stays on this path. Realism always ages quickly, leaving games looking unimmersive and boring. Shifting to a stylized art style now would give Ashes the personality and charm it needs to stay relevant for years. If they don’t pivot soon, the game risks getting lost in the sea of other fantasy games, struggling to attract and maintain the loyal audience that MMOs need to thrive.

Whatever art style they choose it doesn't matter, because they have design problem.

Characters are ugly. Especially the one who are suppose to be most beautiful, like Empyrean. Which currently look like drug addicts with their elongated face and sunken cheeks. Also, there are like 3 variants of mouth shapes that are present in 3 races, which is odd af.

Heavy armor has seen some improvement compared to several years ago because they actually listen to some feedback about how full plate actually works and looks. Helms have seen some love, but we are still not there that you can call it perfect.
Tank illustration was the first time I actually seen something that can be called a helm. Loved that.

Light armor is still glued to players model with no room to breathe and with no movable cloth parts which is pretty much present in new MMOS. See for example, wizard in BDO and how cloth reacts to its casting and movement.
Every AOC's cloth set is tucked into the belt and every wrist/glove is visible and they are afraid to cover them with robe sleeves which just limits their design and makes them all look the same. Blizzard, for example, doesn't give a flying ****. They cover their players leggings, boots and wrists with their chest slot (robes). Why? Because chest, head and shoulder slot alters players look the most.

https://x.com/AshesofCreation/status/1829878209778692373

Look at this travesty. M shaped Asmongold's hairline skullcap with plastered 2d flat texture of burning face of Jack-o'-lantern with white (???) framing? WHO APPROVED THIS?!

Uncommon Sense

For an alpha the aesthetics and designs a tolerable. The design language of Ashes has been consistent with its philosophy...

It seems fairly tame western fantasy style to me...

Could textures and design elements be better...Sure.

But this isn't a Korean glitter fart fantasy game. with sunglasses and shoulder pads holding a pink baseball bat.

For example just compare WoW alpha to 1.12classic for context about what we're actually testing now and how fleshed out it actually is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l80hrcd0-TM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7sCJPgJYXI

Cassian27

I would say the art style is fine for what the game is right now, an alpha. But I do agree it does have a somewhat generic feel at the moment.

I can wait for them to add their own style onto the game so when you log in, you are like "Yes, this is Ashes"

Kalnazzar

Iridianny wrote: »

I’ve been following Ashes of Creation for years, and as someone who’s played MMOs my whole life, I’m really excited about the mechanics and systems they’ve promised. But… it’s ugly. When I first saw the concept art and heard Steven’s promise that the game would look nearly identical to it, I was excited. The early artwork was full of life, creativity, and potential. Too bad he lied about that. People aren’t going to spend hundreds of hours and dollars on a game that looks this uninspired. At least, not enough people to make the game last in the long run.
The most successful games of all time are stylized — World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite... These games stand out because their unique art styles give them character and make them recognizable.
Ashes of Creation already feels outdated with its attempt at ‘realistic’ art. It’s not even good realism. It looks like a collection of generic fantasy assets. With several more years of development ahead, it’s only going to look worse by release if it stays on this path. Realism always ages quickly, leaving games looking unimmersive and boring. Shifting to a stylized art style now would give Ashes the personality and charm it needs to stay relevant for years. If they don’t pivot soon, the game risks getting lost in the sea of other fantasy games, struggling to attract and maintain the loyal audience that MMOs need to thrive.

Honestly, every game you mentioned just doesn’t appeal to me. I’ve never been into the cartoonish style of games like Fortnite, Minecraft, or even early WoW—which, in my opinion, felt aimed at a younger audience. At least WoW has made some efforts to mature its style over time. I like AoC Art Style.

Jayma

I think it's already too late to make a 180 on art style. Yes the game as probably still some years in oven, but probably not enough to redo all assets.
Improving model, animation or visual effect should be possible.

daveywavey

Kalnazzar wrote: »

Honestly, every game you mentioned just doesn’t appeal to me. I’ve never been into the cartoonish style of games like Fortnite, Minecraft, or even early WoW—which, in my opinion, felt aimed at a younger audience. At least WoW has made some efforts to mature its style over time. I like AoC Art Style.

Yeah, it was the cartoony graphics that put me off WoW. I'm sure it was a good game, but it just didn't interest me at all.

Noaani

Iridianny wrote: »

The most successful games of all time are stylized — World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite... These games stand out because their unique art styles give them character and make them recognizable.

In this regard, you are absolutely correct.

The question with that is - does Intrepid want the kind of audience that games with this stylized art style attracts?

The population of those games you listed - none of them would do well in Ashes. Either they will come for the art style and leave because the game isn't for them, or they will come for the art style and Intrepid will change the game to better suit them.

Neither is a good result.

Iridianny

Noaani wrote: »

Iridianny wrote: »

The most successful games of all time are stylized — World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite... These games stand out because their unique art styles give them character and make them recognizable.

In this regard, you are absolutely correct.

The question with that is - does Intrepid want the kind of audience that games with this stylized art style attracts?

The population you are referring to is the majority of the mmo genre player base. Do they want that audience? They better if they want their mmo to be long lasting and make money.

Iridianny

Noaani wrote: »

Iridianny wrote: »

The most successful games of all time are stylized — World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite... These games stand out because their unique art styles give them character and make them recognizable.

The population of those games you listed - none of them would do well in Ashes. Either they will come for the art style and leave because the game isn't for them, or they will come for the art style and Intrepid will change the game to better suit them.

Neither is a good result.

Also, this is based on no evidence. Where is the data that liking a particular art style is linked to any preference of gameplay mechanics in an mmo?
More people will be attracted to a original, unique, stylized art style and maybe more people will come to play because of it, but that is absolutely a good result. I can guarantee Intrepid wants a large player base and lots of people to come play the game, even if they don't end up staying.
This idea that they will change the game for those people is a strange assumption... and kinda has gatekeeping vibes. This could happen regardless of the art style and there is nothing you can do about it.

Ace1234

There are other ways to identify a game other than the artstyle.

Plus, even with a "generic" or "realistic" look, if it is high enough of quality then it can still stand out. Just look at the original ranger showcase and the seasons showcase, those are some of the best looking graphics i've ever seen in a game and I would be able to tell right away it is Ashes by watching those. If the rest of the game looks that good when it finished I don't think the artstyle will be an issue.

Noaani

Iridianny wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Iridianny wrote: »

The most successful games of all time are stylized — World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite... These games stand out because their unique art styles give them character and make them recognizable.

In this regard, you are absolutely correct.

The question with that is - does Intrepid want the kind of audience that games with this stylized art style attracts?

The population you are referring to is the majority of the mmo genre player base. Do they want that audience? They better if they want their mmo to be long lasting and make money.

Steven has indeed said that the average WoW player is unlikely to enjoy Ashes.

More people will be attracted to a original, unique, stylized art style and maybe more people will come to play because of it, but that is absolutely a good result.

No, it really isn't.

If the game attracts a large number of people that came for the art, but then left because the game itself isn't what they want to play, that just means servers die faster. In an MMORPG, this often ends up in a death spiral of population - I also can't imagine it being overly good publicity for Intrepid to look at server mergers within 3 months of launch.

The players that the game attracts need to be the kind of players that are there for the game systems, not that are there for the art style.

This idea that they will change the game for those people is a strange assumption... and kinda has gatekeeping vibes. This could happen regardless of the art style and there is nothing you can do about it.

There is nothing at all gatekeeping about this. I am in no place to stop you discussing what you think - and if I am in no place to stop you, then gatekeeping is literally not a term that can be applied to anything I do.

However, claiming others are gatekeeping when they are clearly no is a form of gatekeeping by proxy. You said it because you mistakenly thought that you claiming gatekeeping may stop me commenting as I see fit - which would be using social norms as a means of gatekeeping.

Claims of gatekeeping where there is actually none are just a joke.

Laetitian

There is nothing at all gatekeeping about this. I am in no place to stop you discussing what you think - and if I am in no place to stop you, then gatekeeping is literally not a term that can be applied to anything I do.

However, claiming others are gatekeeping when they are clearly no is a form of gatekeeping by proxy. You said it because you mistakenly thought that you claiming gatekeeping may stop me commenting as I see fit - which would be using social norms as a means of gatekeeping.

I agree thoroughly with the rest of your comment, and I hope this comment won't distract Iridianny from responding to what you said, but gatekeeping - at least the way it's used online - doesn't mean preventing discussion. It just means insisting on requirements defining a group or category, and ostracising those who don't fulfil those requirements from calling themselves part of that group. You could be gatekeeping without ever telling someone not to talk about something. Just telling him he's not the target audience that's meant to enjoy the game is technically gatekeeping - though it's a productive kind of gatekeeping.

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