Toggleable Transmog for Other Players

TLDR: I'm suggesting to make transmog/cosmetics visibility toggleable for other players.

We're ways away from this being pertinent, and I'm just glad to see that Alpha testing's going great.

Ashes of Creation will happily make much of its profit off cosmetics, with the rest coming from subs. That's awesome.

But I also think transmog/cosmetics are part of the reasons modern MMOs were ruined for me. I miss when people looked like vagrant adventurers, and the only people you saw in extravagant gear earned it through lots (and lots) of sweat. It made seeing them feel special. It doesn't feel very immersive seeing every level one character running like a glowing god.

Obviously, we're not getting rid of transmog/cosmetics. And I'm 100% not asking for that.

I'm suggesting giving us the ability to turn off transmog/cosmetic visibility for other players.

If they can toggle it off on their character pane, I don't think it's unfair for us to be able to turn it off too, right?

Just think it'd be a nice feature for those of us who want the world to look more modest. Plus, it doesn't affect anyone's gameplay at all. Let me know what you think. Thanks for reading! Curious to see what you think as well.

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Comments

Andi

I like the idea of such an option. For some people it's immersion, for others it might be for other reasons (seeing at a glance what kind of gear someone wears can be an advantage in PVP, for example).

Taleof2Cities

@mainedutch ; @Andi

This has been discussed in quite a few other Forums threads already.

The whole point of in-game achievable (and cash shop) cosmetics is so players can show off their look to others.

Making cosmetics a toggle takes that away from players … and devalues their achievement (or purchase).

I haven’t heard of Intrepid having this on their “to do” list anyways.

Whether you like cosmetics or not, it’s a moneymaker for MMO developers … especially for an ambitious title with no box cost. It’s not something that’s going away anytime soon.

mainedutch

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

This has been discussed in quite a few other Forums threads already.

...

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Whether you like cosmetics or not, it’s a moneymaker for MMO developers … especially for a big title with no box cost. It’s not something that’s not going away anytime soon.

I'm glad it's already been mentioned. Hope they're thinking about it. Not that's important, just would like it to be on the table.

And I said I know this is the main point of profit for them, and I get that. That's why I tried making it abundantly clear I don't want cosmetics to go away. I was saying I'd like the option to toggle it off.

Appreciate the insight.

Andi

If an item is in the cash shop, why would you want to show it off? I usually make my outfits for my own pleasure. The idea that people buy stuff on the shop to pose with it didn't occur to me.

Mork

Yes please, people that bought it or won it want to show off, ok, but I don't want to see it, I want to see your real gear.

It's a preferential thing and so it should be an option in my opinion.
"Dont tread on me" you wanna use it, use it, but don't tell me I have to see it

That said, Intrepid has an monetary incentive not to give this option, so I don't believe it will happen

Noaani

Mork wrote: »

Yes please, people that bought it or won it want to show off, ok, but I don't want to see it, I want to see your real gear.

Steven has weighed in on this in the past.

He is not willing to take peoples money for cosmetics so that they can dress their character up as they want it to be presented, only to allow players to bypass that whole thing and see the character different to how the player wanted and paid for.

I would rather be able to see the gear they are using as well, but I cant fault his stance here.

Zahie

Why not ask them to olny add transmogs that isn't immersion breaking instead? And there could be level restrictions to use those cooler high level looking transmogs and cosmetics to prevent low level players from looking too cool at the start.

And why does everyone need to see the original look of the gear other people are using? Do they plan to memorize all stats to every specific gear and look because they can't decide if they dare to attack or not otherwise? Or do they plan to keep a bunch of gear with different stat in their inventory to swap between to counter the other persons stats before an attack?

Korela

Zahie wrote: »

And why does everyone need to see the original look of the gear other people are using? Do they plan to memorize all stats to every specific gear and look [...]?

Yes. Problem?

Andi

Nevermind, I had to refresh the page and your reply showed correctly.

mainedutch

Zahie wrote: »

Why not ask them to olny add transmogs that isn't immersion breaking instead? And there could be level restrictions to use those cooler high level looking transmogs and cosmetics to prevent low level players from looking too cool at the start.

And why does everyone need to see the original look of the gear other people are using? Do they plan to memorize all stats to every specific gear and look because they can't decide if they dare to attack or not otherwise? Or do they plan to keep a bunch of gear with different stat in their inventory to swap between to counter the other persons stats before an attack?

I mean that's definitely an option. A button to turn viewing transmog/comsmetics sounds much simpler though.

And I don't care about memorizing their gear, even though that is absolutely, hands-down a viable tactic for PvP. I just hate the absurd armors of modern MMOs. Simpler is better. (Of course, this is a preference, which is why I think it's smart to toggle viewing of it.)

Mork

Zahie wrote: »

And why does everyone need to see the original look of the gear other people are using?

no, i just couldn't care less about your 20€ cosmetic and much prefer to see the games gear

Vhaeyne

I wish I could still agree with op after all of these years. This was a opinion I once fought for in every game.

Unfortunately the opposition has a few points that are just too strong.

1:In the case of earned cosmetics you are devaluing others accomplishments.

2:In the case of paid cosmetics you are devaluing their purchases.

3:In the case of self expression you are removing normal human agency.

The last point doesn't really sway me because if I could have a toggle to make people present normally when I go to Walmart I would use it.

Still devaluing others purchases will could result in lawsuits and devaluing others accomplishments could result in people leaving the game.

mainedutch

Vhaeyne wrote: »

1:In the case of earned cosmetics you are devaluing others accomplishments.

2:In the case of paid cosmetics you are devaluing their purchases.

3:In the case of self expression you are removing normal human agency.

The last point doesn't really sway me because if I could have a toggle to make people present normally when I go to Walmart I would use it.

Still devaluing others purchases will could result in lawsuits and devaluing others accomplishments could result in people leaving the game.

Thanks for your feedback. I do think these are pretty pertinent points when it comes to devaluing purchases, and that's exactly how AoC will gain most of its income. I never really thought about it from that perspective.

I guess then I hope that cosmetics and transmog are at least immersive to the world. I'm just personally over seeing everyone walk around looking like the best of the best. I suppose we'll see. Thanks all.

Mork

https://youtu.be/DEt4kgAnrRg

Andi

Mork wrote: »

https://youtu.be/DEt4kgAnrRg

Nice video, but several of the things in there are already obsolete.

Personally, I do hope for a cash shop with cosmetics. With slutty cosmetics, even. I'm a GenX, I grew up with 80's fantasy. I wouldn't want to force anyone to look at it, but I'd buy the shit out of the store if the options were there.

Zahie

Mork wrote: »

Zahie wrote: »

And why does everyone need to see the original look of the gear other people are using?

no, i just couldn't care less about your 20€ cosmetic and much prefer to see the games gear

So you just assume everyone will only use cash shop cosmetics and not the transmogs of in game earned gear?
I'm someone who never buys cosmetic but I still like to mix and match and show off the gears I've earned in game without having to sacrifice stats or looks.

Zahie

mainedutch wrote: »

Zahie wrote: »

Why not ask them to olny add transmogs that isn't immersion breaking instead? And there could be level restrictions to use those cooler high level looking transmogs and cosmetics to prevent low level players from looking too cool at the start.

And why does everyone need to see the original look of the gear other people are using? Do they plan to memorize all stats to every specific gear and look because they can't decide if they dare to attack or not otherwise? Or do they plan to keep a bunch of gear with different stat in their inventory to swap between to counter the other persons stats before an attack?

I mean that's definitely an option. A button to turn viewing transmog/comsmetics sounds much simpler though.

And I don't care about memorizing their gear, even though that is absolutely, hands-down a viable tactic for PvP. I just hate the absurd armors of ³modern MMOs. Simpler is better. (Of course, this is a preference, which is why I think it's smart to toggle viewing of it.)

I think simplifying things usually comes with the risk of quality loss. In this case I think @Vhaeyne did sum it up good.

I also prefer simpler armors that is immersive to the world but I don't mind others wearing a little bit "cooler" looking armor as long as it's immersive and fits the world. I've been playing GW2 for a few years and there everyone is running around looking like glowing unicorn super gods, it really hurts the eyes and breaks the immersion so bad so I do understand why someone would like a toggle like that.
So I hope AoC will make better fashion choices than all these other MMOs now days.

PherPhur

Noaani wrote: »

Mork wrote: »

Yes please, people that bought it or won it want to show off, ok, but I don't want to see it, I want to see your real gear.

Steven has weighed in on this in the past.

He is not willing to take peoples money for cosmetics so that they can dress their character up as they want it to be presented, only to allow players to bypass that whole thing and see the character different to how the player wanted and paid for.

I would rather be able to see the gear they are using as well, but I cant fault his stance here.

I can. The topic isn't about toggling off your own cosmetics, it's toggling off others.

People pay for cosmetics and dress characters up in single player games all the time and without a doubt the good majority of players playing MMOs make their character in a way that first and foremost pleases themselves, something for them to look at.

Additionally, it just sets the wrong tone to destroy one of the absolutely most critical functions of a PvP MMO, to see other peoples gear so you know what you're up against. That isn't a small thing, to anyone who is a big PvP'er in an MMO, thats fucking MASSIVE. I cannot overstate how big that is.

Would that equate to less cosmetic sales? Why wouldn't it? How much would it affect cosmetic sales though? Barely at all, most people who are going to buy cosmetics are going to buy them regardless, because they like them.

Personally I do not like the idea of visual progression being something you can pay for, but it's a concession I make because it's the proverbial line in the sand for what separates P2W from not P2W, it's completely understandable and acceptable.

This however, nope. It gives very corrupt AAA "milk what little extra you can at bigger gameplay expenses" vibes. They wanna up the sub price 5% or whatever their losses would be, do that, but them being willing to sacrifice such a massive aspect of PvP in a game that's... lets be real.. largely centered around PvP, for a smaller monetary gain, that's a decent sized red flag.

daveywavey

mainedutch wrote: »

TLDR: I'm suggesting to make transmog/cosmetics visibility toggleable for other players.

Noaani

PherPhur wrote: »

People pay for cosmetics and dress characters up in single player games all the time and without a doubt the good majority of players playing MMOs make their character in a way that first and foremost pleases themselves, something for them to look at.

If this were the case, there would be the same market of cosmetic in single player ROG's as there is in MMORPG's.

However, there is not that same market - because people spend money on cosmetics to control how they are presenting their character to others, not for themselves. Bethesda would have been selling monthly cosmetics for Skyrim and Fallout 4 for years if your assertion that people use cosmetics to please themselves rather than others were true - but that assertion is clearly incorrect.

You say you do not like the idea of visual progression being something you pay for - on the other hand I don't like the idea of visual progression. You and I probably like different styles of look, so the notion that there could be a visual progression is just wrong - the only way this could be correct is if the entire games population equated "moar pauldron" with more progression.

Again, I would personally rather be able to see exactly what gear players are waering. However, Stevens stance can't be faulted - I've tried. Misrepresenting the reason people buy cosmetics isn't a valid fault.

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