Travel Times

I get mounts will get faster and add new skills to help like gliding. Spending 30-45 min to travel across a map, does not feel great. We did this a few times now and once the team broke up just as we got there and had to travel another 30 min to another team that was so badly run, I was earning EXP debt faster then anything. We need faster travel systems, even buying fast horses that are one time rides to different hubs, like DAoC that you could jump off anywhere on the path. Cart systems, or just make the low level mount go faster.

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novercalis

Siendel wrote: »

I loved the approach in UO (launch version) where it took forever to travel, but you could mark runes (if you had that skill) with your current location. So you at least had to go to that place on foot/mount/boat first or pay someone to open a gate for you.

That said, I don't see how that would work for AoC without imposing serious travel restrictions on what you could carry through so the world economy design and risk/reward intent isn't destroyed. And you'd have to consider the impact on PVP.

I'm sure there are ways they could handle this, but every MMO I've played that had fast-travel also had some sort of exploit tied to it (at least at launch). For a game this early in development I'm fine with them leaving it out for now. Plus there will be a quicker type of travel system once nodes get advanced enough. And there is supposed to be node upgrade choices that speed up travel within their jurisdiction.

I do remember they mentioning certain materials can't get teleported. so after a raid of a world boss is done, you're stuck on foot to get to safety. Therefor locking your entire raid to protect you.

this was maybe 3-4 years ago on a dev talk. So they do intend to make certain resources not allowed to be teleported. So that would be awesome, a valheim-esque fast travel that doesnt benefit gatherers or special loot drops

nanfoodle

Right from the Ashes Wiki. Ashes will have a place in Ashes. To keep them, we also need to cater to them. Steven in these quotes says straight up. Casuals will have a greater impact on the game. Why? Think for a second. There is more of them. Read below.

Casual vs. hardcore players

The multiple progression paths in Ashes of Creation are designed to suit different playstyles and offer different "lanes" for players depending on the time they have available to play.[66][67][68][69]

Some progression paths will be more immediately achievable, which are more suited to casual players.[67]
Triggered events such as cravans and sieges will allow casual players to participate in impactful events without significant time investment.[70]

Lower level characters will have usefulness in mass combat that does not depend on their level, such as manning siege weapons, helping repair fortifications, bringing proximity-based buffs to key positions, using stealth or scaling walls. These types of things are relevant to the tide of battle and do not require the player to be max-level or have high combat stats.[71]

There are events that are happening in the world in the game that you won't need to be a hardcore player to impact and join. For example, the triggered events from the PvE standpoint against the cities; the trades of the caravans; those natural battlegrounds that exist; the castle sieges you can login for. There is a lot of systems that are at play where a person can simply log in, participate, have fun, be impactful and then log out.[70] – Steven Sharif

Other progression paths will require a significant time investment, which casual players will take longer to achieve than hardcore players.[67]

The contribution of a large mass of casual players working together may have a greater impact on node progression than hardcore players. Hardcore players may be able to progress into to late-game content faster than casual players, but may lack the numbers to influence the nodes in those locations as quickly as the larger population of casual players.[67]

Traditionally in MMORPGs you're going to see a larger population of casual players than you do of hardcore players; and that's just the way the cookie crumbles from a population standpoint. And because of that and the way that nodes collect experience and advance as a result of player activity, those casual players will actually have more impact on node progression than the hardcore players will: at least as I predict, because of the sheer quantity disproportionate between the two different groups of people... You may see in Ashes the smaller hardcore group of players progress further into the late-game content, right. But they don't have the numbers to influence the nodes in those locations as quickly as the more casual... larger population has near the outskirts.[67] – Steven Sharif

Kusaijshi

i think that is something not everyone things about right now.
When the game is released and 10000 aktiv players are on the map they will spread out and search there home.
After finding your home you will Mostly stay in this area. I think it is not realy wanted that you are running to 10 different grinding spots at the same day just because you changed 1 group member

.
You and your guild will mostly stay near 1 metropolis and play around the nodes there.
You will be grinding and gathering in this area and it will feel like YOUR home.
Only for some big expeditions at the weekends or so you are your group/guild will trael around the world to other metropolises or areas to fight for worldbosses or caravans

.

AoC is not a game like new world where you casually teleport around the world without thinking why you een did that. if you travel somewhere it shuld have a meaning and not just to bring 5 ores from node 1 to node 2 because it feels better to have them all there

nanfoodle

Kusaijshi wrote: »

i think that is something not everyone things about right now.
When the game is released and 10000 aktiv players are on the map they will spread out and search there home.
After finding your home you will Mostly stay in this area. I think it is not realy wanted that you are running to 10 different grinding spots at the same day just because you changed 1 group member .
You and your guild will mostly stay near 1 metropolis and play around the nodes there.
You will be grinding and gathering in this area and it will feel like YOUR home.
Only for some big expeditions at the weekends or so you are your group/guild will trael around the world to other metropolises or areas to fight for worldbosses or caravans .

AoC is not a game like new world where you casually teleport around the world without thinking why you een did that. if you travel somewhere it shuld have a meaning and not just to bring 5 ores from node 1 to node 2 because it feels better to have them all there .

As I said above, Steven has already talked about air ships, portals between science nodes, flight paths between nodes and family summoning. Asking for fast horse routes are not outside the current design. Matter of fact its a gold sink and only needs to be slightly faster then mounts by says 10-20% You would need to be in a node to use it and it would only go from node to node. So it wont get you everywhere easier. Letting people hop off the house at any time would make this work much like it did it DAoC. That game also kept fast travel in a minimum.

Aszkalon

Where is the Sprint Ability for Mounts in saw a Presentations quite a few Months ago ?

I think i get it.

It is a Spot-Test and to many People moving around TO QUICKLY -> meaning things are rendering in and out for them fast -> could crash the Server.

This is why the Mountspeed is atrocious compared to the former Presentations. I think we will get faster Mount Speed only in Phase Two or Three.

Chicago

can't say i don't agree, i don't want to see things like portals or hearthstones, but i would like to see travel options between nodes, could be in the form of blimps, cart systems, or an underground tunnel through the underworld, i do like the fact that there is no flying mounts and teleports, but we do need some other options of travel

Dezemi

Chicago wrote: »

can't say i don't agree, i don't want to see things like portals or hearthstones, but i would like to see travel options between nodes, could be in the form of blimps, cart systems, or an underground tunnel through the underworld, i do like the fact that there is no flying mounts and teleports, but we do need some other options of travel

Could a potential solution perhaps not be quicker travel, but travel not needing player monitoring?

Perhaps mayors could agree on routes with guarded escort caravans that the players can utilize for a cheap cost? Public transportation if you will. One that can still be attacked by enemy players, but the guards make that much less likely (and probably often safer than travelling alone).

Otherwise, I suppose BDOs solution of "auto walking" (on roads) would be a viable option?

beretta7

The long travel times I really don't mind. Used to it from other hardcore MMORPG's that I've played, and honestly this game is trying to really regionalize things and without this it will take away from that. With all that said you really do need a recall. Even the insane MMO's that were hardcore that I've played most of them had a recall. I do believe not having a recall does take away from the enjoyment. Few times I traveled to the edge and was just like...meh I'm logging out.

Kusaijshi

i think its wanted that you dont have a recall (without a cost).
You can fast "recall" by dieng but that costs some of your materials so yea this one hurts

.

But i think its wanted in the form of worldbosses or stealen goods in your inventory.
If you steal dropped cargo from caravans or get a super rare material from a worldboss fight you would just press Return and your loot would be saved.

If you need to run home the "loosers" from the last fight get a chance to take the item back before you reach your home. i think that is the reason why there is no return teleport.
And with dieng you get a respawn.
i for myself was farming mobs on the east of the map and then found a group near my home. i sold my glint and just died.
i lost some exp but thats it. i was instant home

.

i dont want fast travels in this game and i dont want AUTO travel. thats just shit seeing everyone riding afk the same way. and this would only end with PKler camping the afk routes killing the afks

who are traveling to other nodes by system

Azherae

Dezmerizing wrote: »

Chicago wrote: »

can't say i don't agree, i don't want to see things like portals or hearthstones, but i would like to see travel options between nodes, could be in the form of blimps, cart systems, or an underground tunnel through the underworld, i do like the fact that there is no flying mounts and teleports, but we do need some other options of travel

Could a potential solution perhaps not be quicker travel, but travel not needing player monitoring?

Perhaps mayors could agree on routes with guarded escort caravans that the players can utilize for a cheap cost? Public transportation if you will. One that can still be attacked by enemy players, but the guards make that much less likely (and probably often safer than travelling alone).

Otherwise, I suppose BDOs solution of "auto walking" (on roads) would be a viable option?

Just a reminder to all that even though this page starts by saying there will be no 'Go to Waypoint' mechanics, that has been mentioned as an option.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_movement#Public_transportation

novercalis

Kusaijshi wrote: »

i think its wanted that you dont have a recall (without a cost).
You can fast "recall" by dieng but that costs some of your materials so yea this one hurts .

But i think its wanted in the form of worldbosses or stealen goods in your inventory.
If you steal dropped cargo from caravans or get a super rare material from a worldboss fight you would just press Return and your loot would be saved.

If you need to run home the "loosers" from the last fight get a chance to take the item back before you reach your home. i think that is the reason why there is no return teleport.
And with dieng you get a respawn.
i for myself was farming mobs on the east of the map and then found a group near my home. i sold my glint and just died.
i lost some exp but thats it. i was instant home .

i dont want fast travels in this game and i dont want AUTO travel. thats just shit seeing everyone riding afk the same way. and this would only end with PKler camping the afk routes killing the afks who are traveling to other nodes by system

the only auto travel im okay with is a very slow moving bimp or ship to take me over the other continent.

Everquest had a ship that allowed players to get across the continent. There was only 1 ship and it took 40 minutes to do a full cycle. 20 mins to travel to the other side. THAT I AM OK with.

A bimp ride that takes however long, at a slow pace to reach the other continent, I am fine. But recalling, like u said - no.

or MAYBE but it wont allow you to take materials with you. So you can teleport but drop all those goods on the ground for someone to pick up. So you don't get to take those rare blueprints, craft mats or rare mats. and have a MASSIVE cooldown to it.

Czeris

Eve Online, from which AoC is borrowing these systems also had very long travel times, and this was necessary to facilitate some of the systems that are core parts of the design. Eve (and Albion, which borrowed the idea) also has wormhole space, which offers randomized temporary, limited and difficult to map connections between far flung map areas. I believe having this kind of system is planned for Ashes and is the best way to handle having a map and systems where travel time matters, while also allowing a form of fast travel that has commensurate risks associated with it.

Dezemi

Azherae wrote: »

Dezmerizing wrote: »

Chicago wrote: »

can't say i don't agree, i don't want to see things like portals or hearthstones, but i would like to see travel options between nodes, could be in the form of blimps, cart systems, or an underground tunnel through the underworld, i do like the fact that there is no flying mounts and teleports, but we do need some other options of travel

Could a potential solution perhaps not be quicker travel, but travel not needing player monitoring?

Perhaps mayors could agree on routes with guarded escort caravans that the players can utilize for a cheap cost? Public transportation if you will. One that can still be attacked by enemy players, but the guards make that much less likely (and probably often safer than travelling alone).

Otherwise, I suppose BDOs solution of "auto walking" (on roads) would be a viable option?

Just a reminder to all that even though this page starts by saying there will be no 'Go to Waypoint' mechanics, that has been mentioned as an option.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_movement#Public_transportation

Would you look at that! Good going, IPS! x]

nanfoodle

Funny thing people keep saying fast travel. That's coming, it's part of Ashes and coming. 30 to 40 min to cross the map that's very small is allot to ask. If we could move 10 to the 20% faster with our starter mount. This would really help low level players. I have already seen recipes for mounts that have 170% speed. This is really about new player and low level game. It's too slow for a game that is designed to be slow. Or if they want it that slow. When at a node or some other major area like Lionhold. Have horse routes we can pay to move 10-20% faster then the starter mount.

Garrtok

Dreoh wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

I get mounts will get faster and add new skills to help like gliding. Spending 30-45 min to travel across a map, does not feel great. We did this a few times now and once the team broke up just as we got there and had to travel another 30 min to another team that was so badly run, I was earning EXP debt faster then anything. We need faster travel systems, even buying fast horses that are one time rides to different hubs, like DAoC that you could jump off anywhere on the path. Cart systems, or just make the low level mount go faster.

No you dont.

I'll copy paste the comment I made in a similar thread.
Players will ALWAYS be unhappy with the speed of travel and ENDLESSLY clamour for faster transportation.

It's ridiculous, short-sighted, selfish behavior.

Don't fight to eliminate content, fight to make that content more fun.
Don't enjoy travel? Well come up with ideas on how to make travel more fun. Don't argue that travel should be removed.

The people who argue for mounts, for faster mounts, for flying mounts.. these people are the same people who eventually become the people who shout that, "there's no content in this game"
They are the reason we ended up with Dalaran in WoW, with it's portals to every region in the game. Everyone just hearthing to Dalaran and portaling wherever they want to go, then flying straight to the destination.
Retail WoW is a hub-game, like Monster Hunter or Destiny. You hang out in the hub, get teleported or teleport to your destination, do the content, then teleport back. That's not an open world social sandbox mmo.
They are the reason we ended up with the LFG auto-dungeon-party system that teleports you to the dungeon instead of having to interact with the community and journey to the dungeon to do it.

These people are the reason why classic WoW was so very much requested.

These are the people who endlessly tormented the New World devs and community complaining about having to travel everywhere and "needing" mounts.

When the world is made based on a speed of travel, and then you increase that speed, the world and content becomes smaller and more trivial.

These people are the reason why Ashes is a breath of fresh air, with it avoiding these anti-social, anti-immersion systems.

Inconvenience is gameplay.

"It's ridiculous, short-sighted, selfish behavior." it's a bit much, no? He has a valid point. You don't have to shitalk people

Dreoh

Azherae wrote: »

Dezmerizing wrote: »

Chicago wrote: »

can't say i don't agree, i don't want to see things like portals or hearthstones, but i would like to see travel options between nodes, could be in the form of blimps, cart systems, or an underground tunnel through the underworld, i do like the fact that there is no flying mounts and teleports, but we do need some other options of travel

Could a potential solution perhaps not be quicker travel, but travel not needing player monitoring?

Perhaps mayors could agree on routes with guarded escort caravans that the players can utilize for a cheap cost? Public transportation if you will. One that can still be attacked by enemy players, but the guards make that much less likely (and probably often safer than travelling alone).

Otherwise, I suppose BDOs solution of "auto walking" (on roads) would be a viable option?

Just a reminder to all that even though this page starts by saying there will be no 'Go to Waypoint' mechanics, that has been mentioned as an option.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_movement#Public_transportation

Thank god

Aquinas

This is something I have been thinking about a lot between playtests. The sheer scale of the world and travel time will give AoC a very different feeling compared to a typical MMO. A lot of the comments during Steven's monthly Q&A are starting to make sense about the vision for AoC.

Home

Your choice of location is not a hearthstone, you are making a conscious decision to play in this part of the world. Consequently, you will start to recognize the same guilds, the same players. Conflicts and drama will be fairly localized so it will feel personal and affect you directly. Obviously leaving home means that you will a tourist, unfamiliar with both the land and the people there. Stories will be nice and exciting, their history will invoke a sense of curiosity.

- Perhaps its worth your time to use Alpha to explore the whole world, see different biomes and study the world map. Playing in biomes you particularly like will make a substantial difference in enjoyment of your daily tasks.

Modes of Travel

The casual player will have a casual mount where as an experienced or dedicated player will have a luxury mount. Luxury defined as rare to have, hard to obtain, or expensive to purchase. The choice of mount is as personal as the car you choose to own in real life. Does this person value their time? They will choose a fast mount. Value being able to carry a lot of materials? A mount with more storage. Some players will place value in getting a very cool looking mount like people want to own a ferrari.

Of course, because 99.5% of players you pass will be on a ground mount - when you see a flying mount you will know who that individual is and it will provoke a feeling of amazement as you watch their dragon fly off over the mountains while you are running away from wolves. That alone is quite the different experience in an MMO.

Scientific nodes will encourage travelers from far away to travel through their vassal system due to the speed of travel. In the same way that throughout history towns expanded first on rivers then highways, now on high speed monorails, the same will happen within a scientific node & vassal system. Of course this brings economic opportunities, as travelers travel throughout the node system they will naturally stock up on rations, suppliess, and use your benches which will pay taxes to your local area, enriching every citizen in the node system.

Lifestyle choices

Unlike any MMO I have played, if the world stays to this scale and speed of travel the idea of owning an Inn & Tavern to travelers or playing as a wandering merchant makes a lot of sense. I have never played an MMO where someone could get the largest mount inventory and bags and actually travel the world and sell good from one place to another as well selling goods to players traveling on the roads or outside of dungeons.

Freeholds

Seeing the scope of the world and land, it makes a lot of sense why freeholds are the penultimate goal for crafters. Putting down a house in a node establishes your very real footprint and presence in the node. People will certainly become familiar with your home, your goods, and your services. People will seek out your homestead due to its location or other benefits directly benefiting you as a player.

With a freehold, you won't be a wandering traveler whom no one knows on a personal level. There will be a relationship formed over time with the residents of the node.

Caravan and Naval trade routes

The sheer distance needed to be covered by the caravans and naval ships for trade routes gives you a scale of how profitable a successful trade route would be and also why they would be huge targets for players to attack.

Getting late but the answers Steven has given during the Q&A make a lot of sense now. This is an absolutely intended structure of the world. You could even go as far to say that the sheer size of the world is the foundation of everything that will lay on top of it, everything from crafting and trading to guild relationships and node wars.

Dreoh

Dezmerizing wrote: »

Chicago wrote: »

can't say i don't agree, i don't want to see things like portals or hearthstones, but i would like to see travel options between nodes, could be in the form of blimps, cart systems, or an underground tunnel through the underworld, i do like the fact that there is no flying mounts and teleports, but we do need some other options of travel

Could a potential solution perhaps not be quicker travel, but travel not needing player monitoring?

Perhaps mayors could agree on routes with guarded escort caravans that the players can utilize for a cheap cost? Public transportation if you will. One that can still be attacked by enemy players, but the guards make that much less likely (and probably often safer than travelling alone).

Otherwise, I suppose BDOs solution of "auto walking" (on roads) would be a viable option?

Again, like I stated in my earlier post, don't argue for travel to be removed, argue for it to be improved.

Auto navigate mechanics are no different than auto battle mechanics.

Navigation and being present within the world are both part of the game and gameplay. Paying attention to surroundings, figuring out the path you should take, avoiding obstacles and possible ambush locations is part of the game.

People in here are arguing that these parts of the game should be diminished or removed because they (like I stated in my earlier comment) do not fully comprehend the consequences of their desires.

Inconvenience is gameplay. A game without inconvenience has zero gameplay and will not hold anyone's attention.

There's a game that close minded people like to meme on called Death Stranding by calling it a walking simulator. While true, it is a huge oversimplification. Kojima, a developer known for pushing the limits on what games can be, understood that travel is just another avenue of gameplay, so he created a game about traveling, navigating and finding clever solutions to get from point a to b. This game is appreciated most by the gamers who understand that the journey is far more important than the destination. These gamers aren't rushing to get to the next mindless objective, they are present in the world and partaking in it.

Elder scrolls fans also can understand this concept. Morrowind players will have all kinds of stories and memories of their travels between towns in Vvardenfell and traversing the red mountain. Then they play oblivion and Skyrim with their easy fast travel and you will find that they lack those same stories and memories.

People who complain about travel times only complain because they think it's a barrier to the actual gameplay. Sometimes it is. Some developers share in that short sighted opinion and fail to even consider innovating or embellishing the traveling in their games. Then you have developers like Santa Monica studio who, while not really embellishing the gameplay of travel, used travel to embellish the story by having relevant conversations play out as the player navigate the gorgeous locales.

This kind of got off track a bit, but I guess to summarize, inconvenience is gameplay. Travel is inconvenience, and a game letting you handle that inconvenience in your own way is what makes for good gameplay. Auto-pathing isnt inconvenience.

If you're not playing, why are you playing?

novercalis

....ignore me....

Zapatos80

Ironically enough, I think not having fast-travel is more casual friendly. It creates niches for them to be the best in, just like the crafting system. Some processing professions will definitely be less popular, and thus be great moneymaking opportunities for a more humble artisan in that skill, because there's going to be less competition.

This is especially true when you take account distance. Imagine you have little to no competition in your less-popular processing artisan skill in your region of the world. You can charge MUCH more for your services since most people won't want to spend half an hour to get to a node where some other processor would charge less.

Consider also that distance is a great mitigation tool against zerg guilds. If it takes an hour to cross the world, then you might have time to do a valuable caravan run or raid boss before the zerg guild of the server gets there.

Yes, it feels cumbersome in the short term, but it opens up a lot of gameplay avenues in the long term, which is something the MMORPG world hasn't seen in a very long time, if ever.

PS: Mounts will be much faster, and with faster abilities such as dash. Even now you can buy a 165% mount for 36g I believe at the NPC.
Some public transportation might be implemented.
Scientific Metropolis will also have teleports within their zone of influence.
Commerce Metropolis will have auction house networks for their market.

I'm hyped.

Child Item