Grinding

Hi,

Of course I know that this is an alpha, that nothing is final, that theyre still working on pretty much everything, but I guess the alpha should give us a propper idea what the game is or at least wants to be. Because of that I want to talk about grinding.

I know for some people grinding is peak gameplay and that some people here really like to sh*t on people that are just not hardcore and progress oriented enough to farm hours and hours and that there is also some form of gatekeeping around it.

But right now you become like level 5ish, and after that you have two options: you grind mobs over and over again, or you grind resources.

You grind one spot, to be able to get to the next higher grind spot and at some point you're done and max level, and you did several hundred hours the exact same thing without any meaningful gameplay, nothing beyond pressing a few buttons.

I really enjoy the world, the combat, the crafting, the complexity of all mechanics and I know that grinding in some form makes total sense. Some achievements should be locked behind time, also the design choice of relatively long leveling is fine, but I disagree with this dull and repetitive approach in almost everything right now.

What is you guys opinion on that?

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novercalis

Garrtok wrote: »

novercalis wrote: »

They've also said time and again that their inspiration is EQ, Linage and AA. beside AA, EQ/Lineage was about grinding and sticking to a spot for a hot while. I do not see that changing. Open world dungeons isn't going to be like WoW where you move through the content, it's going to end up with groups picking a spot, to grind and kill a name mob. We can see this in Carphin and Remnants.

Lineage is 20 years old. If I want to play an asia grinder I can also do that since 20 years now. The aim should be to offer good gameplay. Dull grinding is not good gameplay

too bad the past 7 years Steven has been talking about wanting to go back to old MMO STANDARDS, so this game isn't for you. EQ isn't an asian / eastern game either and is much more brutal than any eastern asian grind.

the good gameplay is actually from slowing the pace down. People are looking to race but this is more about climbing Mt. Everest. Not everyone reaches the summit, let alone to the top. The game is focus on creating content in every aspect of the leveling, creating dopamines through long term achievement. Getting those super 1-2% rare drop after grinding the same mob for few days. Steven has been vocal about this vision.
perhaps this game isn't for you then. you didn't do you're due diligence on what this game is truly about.

Garrtok

novercalis wrote: »

Garrtok wrote: »

novercalis wrote: »

They've also said time and again that their inspiration is EQ, Linage and AA. beside AA, EQ/Lineage was about grinding and sticking to a spot for a hot while. I do not see that changing. Open world dungeons isn't going to be like WoW where you move through the content, it's going to end up with groups picking a spot, to grind and kill a name mob. We can see this in Carphin and Remnants.

Lineage is 20 years old. If I want to play an asia grinder I can also do that since 20 years now. The aim should be to offer good gameplay. Dull grinding is not good gameplay

too bad the past 7 years Steven has been talking about wanting to go back to old MMO STANDARDS, so this game isn't for you. EQ isn't an asian / eastern game either and is much more brutal than any eastern asian grind.

the good gameplay is actually from slowing the pace down. People are looking to race but this is more about climbing Mt. Everest. Not everyone reaches the summit, let alone to the top. The game is focus on creating content in every aspect of the leveling, creating dopamines through long term achievement. Getting those super 1-2% rare drop after grinding the same mob for few days. Steven has been vocal about this vision.
perhaps this game isn't for you then. you didn't do you're due diligence on what this game is truly about.

You see this it what I mean. "oh you dont like something? Wrong game for you"

Okay, let's just close the forum, if any criticism of feedback leads to that.

You are talking about slowing things down, but it's not about that in that thread. I didn't mention, that it's taking too kich time, iam talking about classic grinding being boring if there is no real alternative

iARN

novercalis wrote: »

Garrtok wrote: »

novercalis wrote: »

They've also said time and again that their inspiration is EQ, Linage and AA. beside AA, EQ/Lineage was about grinding and sticking to a spot for a hot while. I do not see that changing. Open world dungeons isn't going to be like WoW where you move through the content, it's going to end up with groups picking a spot, to grind and kill a name mob. We can see this in Carphin and Remnants.

Lineage is 20 years old. If I want to play an asia grinder I can also do that since 20 years now. The aim should be to offer good gameplay. Dull grinding is not good gameplay

too bad the past 7 years Steven has been talking about wanting to go back to old MMO STANDARDS, so this game isn't for you. EQ isn't an asian / eastern game either and is much more brutal than any eastern asian grind.

the good gameplay is actually from slowing the pace down. People are looking to race but this is more about climbing Mt. Everest. Not everyone reaches the summit, let alone to the top. The game is focus on creating content in every aspect of the leveling, creating dopamines through long term achievement. Getting those super 1-2% rare drop after grinding the same mob for few days. Steven has been vocal about this vision.
perhaps this game isn't for you then. you didn't do you're due diligence on what this game is truly about.

This guy is just a troll. He doesn't listen to anything anyone says and just repeats the same ole tripe. I'm not gonna feed him anymore, don't waste your time either.

Rym

novercalis wrote: »

I'm a masochist. 200-250 hours is pretty low.

I want EQ level pacing. It felt amazing and an accomplishment when you reach the next level.

To give comparison:

Assuming a 4hr hours of play every night (maybe skipping a night here and there):

1-10 A couple days, at most (12-16 hours)
11-20 A week (28 hours)
21-30 Two weeks (56 hours)
31-40 Two to three weeks (84 hours)
41-50 A month (112 hours)
51 - 12 hrs
52 - 13 hrs
53 - 14 hrs
54 - 15 hrs
55 - 16 hrs
56 - 20 hrs
57 - 24 hrs
58 - 29 hrs
59 - 35 hrs
60 - 40 hrs

that is an estimated 510-514 hours.

Not everyone made it to 60 and that is okay. Casually playing would be 6 months, 20 hours or 4 hrs for 5 days.
Hell, it was common for some people make it to 60 in a year and never felt bad. because the content was extremely hard and rewarding. There was that Social aspect that just made it fun. Shooting the shit with people while hoping for a pixel to drop or progressing your level slowly but surely. This is the epitome and peak example of the Tortoise and the Hare. Stop betting on the hare and give the tortoise a chance.

====================

(meanwhile in 6 days, I made it to 22 in Ashes, putting in ~35 hours of active in-game time.

Slowing the pace of the game and having content every 5 level bracket is better than racing asap to the top.

That feeling of being level 30, and it might take you 3 levels, 5 days to grind and get that 1 item in Guk feels amazing and rewarding. Also knowing that item is probably gonna be with you for a long time. Unlike Classic Wow, you're upgrading gear every 2 days or less.

AoC should be like One Piece - Maybe The Real Treasure Was the Friends We Made Along the Way and you only gain this with a slower pace MMORPG. Let's stop feeding and catering to the TikTok, ADHD player base.

let's make MMORPG great again. Slower pace = more bonding with our group in-game or discord = fond memories down the road.

I strongly agree with your suggestion. Currently we have around 200-250 hours planned to get to max level. It's decent, but leveling can be made slower, more rewarding. As you said, the more difficult a task is, the more rewarding overcoming it can become, up to a point.

I never understood the point in rushing to max level in a day or two in most MMOs. You don't even know how to play the game properly yet you're max level already lol.

Flashfirez23

Rym wrote: »

novercalis wrote: »

I'm a masochist. 200-250 hours is pretty low.

I want EQ level pacing. It felt amazing and an accomplishment when you reach the next level.

To give comparison:

Assuming a 4hr hours of play every night (maybe skipping a night here and there):

1-10 A couple days, at most (12-16 hours)
11-20 A week (28 hours)
21-30 Two weeks (56 hours)
31-40 Two to three weeks (84 hours)
41-50 A month (112 hours)
51 - 12 hrs
52 - 13 hrs
53 - 14 hrs
54 - 15 hrs
55 - 16 hrs
56 - 20 hrs
57 - 24 hrs
58 - 29 hrs
59 - 35 hrs
60 - 40 hrs

that is an estimated 510-514 hours.

Not everyone made it to 60 and that is okay. Casually playing would be 6 months, 20 hours or 4 hrs for 5 days.
Hell, it was common for some people make it to 60 in a year and never felt bad. because the content was extremely hard and rewarding. There was that Social aspect that just made it fun. Shooting the shit with people while hoping for a pixel to drop or progressing your level slowly but surely. This is the epitome and peak example of the Tortoise and the Hare. Stop betting on the hare and give the tortoise a chance.

====================

(meanwhile in 6 days, I made it to 22 in Ashes, putting in ~35 hours of active in-game time.

Slowing the pace of the game and having content every 5 level bracket is better than racing asap to the top.

That feeling of being level 30, and it might take you 3 levels, 5 days to grind and get that 1 item in Guk feels amazing and rewarding. Also knowing that item is probably gonna be with you for a long time. Unlike Classic Wow, you're upgrading gear every 2 days or less.

AoC should be like One Piece - Maybe The Real Treasure Was the Friends We Made Along the Way and you only gain this with a slower pace MMORPG. Let's stop feeding and catering to the TikTok, ADHD player base.

let's make MMORPG great again. Slower pace = more bonding with our group in-game or discord = fond memories down the road.

I strongly agree with your suggestion. Currently we have around 200-250 hours planned to get to max level. It's decent, but leveling can be made slower, more rewarding. As you said, the more difficult a task is, the more rewarding overcoming it can become, up to a point.

I never understood the point in rushing to max level in a day or two in most MMOs. You don't even know how to play the game properly yet you're max level already lol.

This is not a good idea at all. I hope Ashes does not make the game slower. It is slow enough. You all need to remember that there needs to be a population of players to keep the game alive. If they make leveling even slower. This game will die sooner rather than later. Let’s focus on making the planned 200+ hours engaging and fun enough. That’s already a tall order. Making the game slower will only make this task way harder. Longer isn’t always better. It’s about the quality of the experience not the length of the experience.

Garrtok

Also consider, that as long as you're not max level you can barely participate in pvp, without being an autokill

novercalis

EQ was extremely fun with how slow it was. Because there was content in every level, an area to camp and an item to grind for.

there is nothing wrong making things HARDER. It is exciting when overcoming it. rewarding when overcoming it.

For most people, most people not got to see End game in EQ. But the gameplay from 1-59 was intense, hard and fun. More importantly, memorable. Same for Lineage, Star Wars. It's content was everything from 1-59, not just end game loop.

Yoiu can slow the game down and make it high quality content for those stages.

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