PvP sucks, and they are making it worse!

I thought Ashes of Creation was supposed to be a PvP-focused game, but it feels like the corruption system is actively punishing anyone who engages in open-world PvP. The added slow effect on corruption just adds another layer to an already harsh penalty system, making it even less appealing to participate. I get that corruption is meant to balance PvP and prevent griefing, but as it stands, it feels like the game is leaning too hard on penalizing PvP rather than encouraging it.

During the recent bug where corruption wasn’t triggering, PvP was actually fun and spontaneous, just like the open-world PvP experience was supposed to be. Without the risk of losing gear or being slowed, people were more willing to engage, leading to some of the best PvP moments I’ve had in the game so far. Now that corruption’s back—and harsher than ever—it feels like I’m getting punished for wanting to PvP.

There’s also no incentive to even consider corruption worth the risk: no unique rewards, no advantages, nothing but the feeling of trying to overcome the system’s many debuffs. And without any dedicated PvP content like battlegrounds, the open-world PvP experience feels like it’s the only place to get that action. Wasn’t this game supposed to be about risking it all in PvP? Right now, it feels more like I’m being discouraged from PvP altogether.

The system feels like it’s pushing us towards some sort of ‘PvE with mild PvP on the side’ experience, not the high-stakes PvP game many of us expected. If I wanted to avoid open-world PvP, I’d play a game designed for that; I’m here for the thrill, not for a laundry list of debuffs and gear loss. Please, let us play without making us feel like PvP is a trap!

I realize the importance of potato farming, and people doing gathering etc etc, but you have to find a balance between the two if you're out of idea just do war/crisis/peace zones like archeage and call it a day. (idk im not game designed but i know the pvp is severely being neglected)

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RocketFarmer

Seems to be a bit of gamesmanship going on where you can get gear at the cost of some materials if you get someone to PK you to turn red, and then the PKer is toast. The trade of a percentage of materials vs the percentage of items seems to lean toward those who would bait PK to get stuff. Could be accomplished alone or in groups. Alone by having a glass/bait PC set up the PK and then an alt (or main) PC in position to log in and jump the corrupt player to get the gear. Zero cost if the bait PC carries no materials.

Dolyem

RocketFarmer wrote: »

Seems to be a bit of gamesmanship going on where you can get gear at the cost of some materials if you get someone to PK you to turn red, and then the PKer is toast. The trade of a percentage of materials vs the percentage of items seems to lean toward those who would bait PK to get stuff. Could be accomplished alone or in groups. Alone by having a glass/bait PC set up the PK and then an alt (or main) PC in position to log in and jump the corrupt player to get the gear. Zero cost if the bait PC carries no materials.

Another thing I plan to test. Make a fake "bot" name character to bait players to make a completely acceptable nongriefing PK, and then jump in and snag some gear.

Its_Me

Dolyem wrote: »

If i were playing a full release game, I'd be playing like a hardcore PVPer. We are testing, so I am focusing on testing issues. Steven himself has even stated corruptions purpose is to deter griefing. It isn't meant to be used as a sort of shield like I am using it.
There's nothing strawman about the argument.

Steven actually stated that the corruption system is to deter BOTH griefing and PKing, and that his intent is to significantly reduce a players exposure to non-consensual pvp so that it is 'almost never worth it' and incentivize PVP through the flagging system, not PK.

Perhaps corruption is overtuned right now where turning red is not worth it at all but I doubt we are far off from Stevens goal of 'almost never worth it'.

The reference to strawman is you replying to my generic post suggesting that if someone WANTs pvp, flag up. Like I said, I don't care about your testing, just don't complain about not having pvp if you do not attempt to engage in it as it exists in test. 😲

Texas

Rumlox wrote: »

i posted this in another thread but ill post it here also

I think that if the current system is close to what they ultimately want, they should just turn off PvP unless players actively flag for it. Right now, the only people who engage in open-world PvP are griefers on alts. The current system encourages players to be as annoying as possible in order to bait others into killing them.

The PvP meta right now is essentially about pulling mobs into a group’s AoE to wipe them, and then looting the corpses. If you kill the person doing the training, you risk losing three pieces of gear. I don't want to encourage griefing, but if you can't kill someone who is intentionally being disruptive, what's the point of open-world PvP? Intrepid talks about conflict and risk vs. reward, but who’s going to take the risk of losing three pieces of gear for a fight?

Right now, all you have to do is leave your mount out. If you get attacked, you can stand next to it, and the cleave kills the mount, causing them to go corrupt. Then your group can kill them without even flagging for PvP. Killing someone should carry risk, but the current penalties are too harsh. If you can’t kill the group that just sits on top of your group to farm kills, or the guy who trains mobs on you, or the one looting your tank’s corpse right in front of you, then what’s the point of having open-world PvP at all?

You should be able to kill a few people without the fear of losing gear or getting severe debuffs. The downsides of corruption at level 1 should be more like what we see at corruption level 3. I also think Blight should only apply to kills made while already corrupt. You should be able to kill players who earn it, but going full "murder hobo" should come with significant consequences.

Listen to this man.

Right now there's more non-PvP griefing due to corruption being too strong than there is PvP ganking. And it's not even close.

Dolyem

Its_Me wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

If i were playing a full release game, I'd be playing like a hardcore PVPer. We are testing, so I am focusing on testing issues. Steven himself has even stated corruptions purpose is to deter griefing. It isn't meant to be used as a sort of shield like I am using it.
There's nothing strawman about the argument.

Steven actually stated that the corruption system is to deter BOTH griefing and PKing, and that his intent is to significantly reduce a players exposure to non-consensual pvp so that it is 'almost never worth it' and incentivize PVP through the flagging system, not PK.

Perhaps corruption is overtuned right now where turning red is not worth it at all but I doubt we are far off from Stevens goal of 'almost never worth it'.

The reference to strawman is you replying to my generic post suggesting that if someone WANTs pvp, flag up. Like I said, I don't care about your testing, just don't complain about not having pvp if you do not attempt to engage in it as it exists in test. 😲

Excessive PKing. Steven has recently stated in the interview with pirate software that it is entirely by design for players to have to fight for resources, hunting areas, xp grinds, etc via open world PvP engagements. If I can cheese those designs via corruption, that's and issue. And that's what I am testing.

It's not a strawman to state that if I can cheese a system for advantages it's an issue, while simply stating that normally I am also a hardcore PVPer. I'll still cheese a games systems to gain the advantages, but I'd rather have the route of PvP to defend PvE spots be the default, not a choice.

Uncommon Sense

The current Alpha is prioritizing network systems. Not PVP

due the the planned server wipe/reset on the 20 dec players are not that invested in the characters they've made. Which removes the risks for PVP which is likely why Corruption and now Blight is overtuned to keep the Alpha test relevant...

Intrepid need players online to make the testing prerogatives valid...If everyone quit because PVP was a free for all, no relevant data would be collected.

Stop treating it as a finished game and start behaving like its an Alpha test..

Dolyem

Uncommon Sense wrote: »

The current Alpha is prioritizing network systems. Not PVP

due the the planned server wipe/reset on the 20 dec players are not that invested in the characters they've made. Which removes the risks for PVP which is likely why Corruption and now Blight is overtuned to keep the Alpha test relevant...

Intrepid need players online to make the testing prerogatives valid...If everyone quit because PVP was a free for all, no relevant data would be collected.

Stop treating it as a finished game and start behaving like its an Alpha test..

Also this. Rampant PKing currently is a result of lack of risk. Corruption penalties will be reduced for sure. It just needs to be tweaked to the correct amount. Too penalizing and what I'm testing will still be an issue, reducing most openworld PvP engagement. Too lenient and you'll still have rampant PKing. There's definitely a sweet spot that needs to be achieved

Its_Me

Dolyem wrote: »

Excessive PKing.

Again, I am simply repeating specific statements Steven has made where he states that the corruption mechanics are based around "disincentivizing a griefer or PKer" (no mentioned of excessive) and "The flagging system is intended to always provide an element of risk in all settings, but also architected to ensure that griefing and PK’ing is almost never worth it."

These are his words, not mine and Steven's definition of PK seems to be attached to non-combatants unwilling to fight back and PVP as players that flag against one another.

I agree with what Uncommon Sense stated and I have mentioned it repeatedly, Steven admits corruption is intentionally overtuned for alpha so we need to stop proclaiming the sky is falling until we know the actual penalties. It is my speculation that penalties will be more lenient on corruption but nowhere near what many people are hoping for.

Steven has recently stated in the interview with pirate software that it is entirely by design for players to have to fight for resources, hunting areas, xp grinds, etc via open world PvP engagements.

I watched the entire interview the other day which is how I knew that flagging would likely come soon for those looting bodies that were not a guild or raid member. Are you referring to how he wants PVP (flagged players) to have battles around nodes/resources? I remember nothing about him suggesting nonconsensual PKing was his intent......

It's not a strawman to state that if I can cheese a system for advantages it's an issue, while simply stating that normally I am also a hardcore PVPer. I'll still cheese a games systems to gain the advantages, but I'd rather have the route of PvP to defend PvE spots be the default, not a choice.

You missed the point again with the strawman and rather than explaining it again, feel free to read my last response.

Dolyem

@Its_Me
Thats a bit of an odd contradiction. Its said around the same time as the quote from the meme. Though the one from the meme was also from when he was specifically asked in a dev talk to elaborate on his definition of griefing and corruptions true intent(probably as a result from that youtube video). The quote you mentioned was a youtube comment he made while on a plane. Doesnt discredit it, but I will take the response he made on the dev stream over the comment while in the air as more reliable, whether or not that may be biased.

I totally agree with flagging for looting bodies of players.
Yes, my point is that these PVP confilcts over areas and resources can very well be negatively affected if players can utilize corruption as a sort of shield to encroach on these areas and avoid PvP via the massive penalties from going corrupt for killing them would cause, deterring actual PvP engagements. And I am not saying you shouldnt be punished for PKing. You just shouldnt be given a death sentence for PKing someone purposely avoiding PvP while also moving in on an occupied area/resource. A couple freebie PKs with minor penalties to allow you to get the point across, but also make you feel it and have to work it off in a proper amount of time(which would need tested more) is what I am suggesting. Anything past that without clearing corruption could potentially be considered griefing due to excessive kills, so thats when you should slap on the heavy penalties like gear drops. This keeps players weary about gaining corruption, but also keeps it from being utilized as a sort of Opt-out shield entirely due to the initial loss of materials and xp from not fighting back. Its just balancing out the risk while focusing penalties on griefing rather than the actual PvP.

No I see what you have been saying. Youre saying my argument is strawman because I pointed out that putting yourself at a disadvantage is a bad idea, while also stating that I am a hardcore PvPer. I say that utilizing every advantage to win in PvP is just being smart. I will flag when its smart or when it seems fun. I dont see how that doesnt make me a hardcore PvPer? I still put in all the work to know every class, shot call in groups, and compete to be top tier in ranked content. I particularly enjoy zerg busting with substantially less numbers. I guess by your own subjective definition a Hardcore PvPer marks themselves as always vulnerable to attack. I would say a Hardcore PvPer is the best fighter and plays smart, gaming the game. So from my point of view, its no strawman.

DeeSav

Dolyem wrote: »

DeeSav wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Corruption has a lot of work to go, but if it allows for an "opt-in pvp" system it will be bad. WoW War Mode pretending to be open world PvP.

You can attack at any time anywhere... just because you don't accept the consequence doesn't mean its opt in. There is a huge difference. I know I will find myself in many situations where i'll be contesting a grind/gather spot and gladly take on corruption to rid myself of someone intentionally being a nuisance, or come across an obvious bot and take solace in the fact I can enact economic justice upon them. The option is always there for you, its just not worth it to murder random helpless newbies and that is a good thing.

There will be plenty of PvP to be had outside of slaughtering those that want nothing to do with it.

In a PVX game, you shouldnt be able to choose to not have anything to do with open world PvP. Corruption has its place. But it shouldnt be a way to opt out of open world PvP via punishment being far too severe for what isnt considered actual griefing.

edit: also, pvp events are not open world PvP. You are meant to have a risk of dying to other players while adventuring for rewards.

edit edit: I am also a hardcore PvPer, but as is, I fully plan to utilize corruption as a shield while gathering and PVEing, and utilizing an alt or guildie with bounty hunting to just immediately track down my killer and get 4x rewards. But I doubt I will ever actually get PKed due to the overly severe consequences. Have plenty of other things I plan to test as well but thatll be for phase 3

No one gets to choose to opt out of PvP. You still have all the power that you hold dear. If you don't want to use your brain when exerting that power, that's on you. That's the system.

Dolyem

DeeSav wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

DeeSav wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Corruption has a lot of work to go, but if it allows for an "opt-in pvp" system it will be bad. WoW War Mode pretending to be open world PvP.

You can attack at any time anywhere... just because you don't accept the consequence doesn't mean its opt in. There is a huge difference. I know I will find myself in many situations where i'll be contesting a grind/gather spot and gladly take on corruption to rid myself of someone intentionally being a nuisance, or come across an obvious bot and take solace in the fact I can enact economic justice upon them. The option is always there for you, its just not worth it to murder random helpless newbies and that is a good thing.

There will be plenty of PvP to be had outside of slaughtering those that want nothing to do with it.

In a PVX game, you shouldnt be able to choose to not have anything to do with open world PvP. Corruption has its place. But it shouldnt be a way to opt out of open world PvP via punishment being far too severe for what isnt considered actual griefing.

edit: also, pvp events are not open world PvP. You are meant to have a risk of dying to other players while adventuring for rewards.

edit edit: I am also a hardcore PvPer, but as is, I fully plan to utilize corruption as a shield while gathering and PVEing, and utilizing an alt or guildie with bounty hunting to just immediately track down my killer and get 4x rewards. But I doubt I will ever actually get PKed due to the overly severe consequences. Have plenty of other things I plan to test as well but thatll be for phase 3

No one gets to choose to opt out of PvP. You still have all the power that you hold dear. If you don't want to use your brain when exerting that power, that's on you. That's the system.

Sure I can. I dont fight back, I gather and utilize grind spots that are occupied and claimed to intentionally interfere with others. The only way they can push me out is by becoming corrupted. I am therefore utilizing corruption as a sort of shield. And if they ever do decide to go corrupted (which I am trying to get them to do in this case) either me or some guildies jump in and get 4x mats and some gear. Thats not what corruption is designed for. Either way I get to gather a bunch of stuff/XP grind depending on the difference in damage/number of players. Only loss I ever need to worry about is if the corrupted player escapes, which will be even harder for them to do once bounty hunting comes out and I can literally pull up a map and find them.

DeeSav

Dolyem wrote: »

DeeSav wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

DeeSav wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Corruption has a lot of work to go, but if it allows for an "opt-in pvp" system it will be bad. WoW War Mode pretending to be open world PvP.

You can attack at any time anywhere... just because you don't accept the consequence doesn't mean its opt in. There is a huge difference. I know I will find myself in many situations where i'll be contesting a grind/gather spot and gladly take on corruption to rid myself of someone intentionally being a nuisance, or come across an obvious bot and take solace in the fact I can enact economic justice upon them. The option is always there for you, its just not worth it to murder random helpless newbies and that is a good thing.

There will be plenty of PvP to be had outside of slaughtering those that want nothing to do with it.

In a PVX game, you shouldnt be able to choose to not have anything to do with open world PvP. Corruption has its place. But it shouldnt be a way to opt out of open world PvP via punishment being far too severe for what isnt considered actual griefing.

edit: also, pvp events are not open world PvP. You are meant to have a risk of dying to other players while adventuring for rewards.

edit edit: I am also a hardcore PvPer, but as is, I fully plan to utilize corruption as a shield while gathering and PVEing, and utilizing an alt or guildie with bounty hunting to just immediately track down my killer and get 4x rewards. But I doubt I will ever actually get PKed due to the overly severe consequences. Have plenty of other things I plan to test as well but thatll be for phase 3

No one gets to choose to opt out of PvP. You still have all the power that you hold dear. If you don't want to use your brain when exerting that power, that's on you. That's the system.

Sure I can. I dont fight back, I gather and utilize grind spots that are occupied and claimed to intentionally interfere with others. The only way they can push me out is by becoming corrupted. I am therefore utilizing corruption as a sort of shield. And if they ever do decide to go corrupted (which I am trying to get them to do in this case) either me or some guildies jump in and get 4x mats and some gear. Thats not what corruption is designed for. Either way I get to gather a bunch of stuff/XP grind depending on the difference in damage/number of players. Only loss I ever need to worry about is if the corrupted player escapes, which will be even harder for them to do once bounty hunting comes out and I can literally pull up a map and find them.

Except I can just still kill you if you are intentionally being a jackass. I'm not attached to my white vendor gear that I have multiple copies of in my storage and wouldn't wander around with an inventory full of materials. You gain nothing and waste you and your friends time not progressing in any way while my party is still grinding and working off my XP debt for me. Enjoy the 50 copper from my gear I guess, if my party doesn't loot it first.

Orym

Open world flagging is not really the pvp content lol. Its more like a baseline right, like the right to own weapon.

You can hunt animals or shoot at a firing range but you are not allowed to kill someone unprovoked.
Same thing with flagging. You have a right to flag up and fight people whenever and do castle sieges, node wars or ship fights but you are not allowed to kill someone innocent.

The ACTUAL pvp content is coming.
Running around and getting corruption is not really pvp content.

Drezao

right now the pvp flag system is in a pretty bad state. Tottally agree with you. Hope they try to fix this soon

Its_Me

Dolyem wrote: »

Thats a bit of an odd contradiction. Its said around the same time as the quote from the meme. Though the one from the meme was also from when he was specifically asked in a dev talk to elaborate on his definition of griefing and corruptions true intent(probably as a result from that youtube video). The quote you mentioned was a youtube comment he made while on a plane. Doesnt discredit it, but I will take the response he made on the dev stream over the comment while in the air as more reliable, whether or not that may be biased.

Could you please quote what you are addressing as I have no clue what I said that you are even commenting on here, you just did an @ me. I am contradicting? Steven is contradicting? Are you suggesting that Steven is not trying to prevent non-consensual combat and PKs???

Also, not certain what meme you are referring to. I see some broken jpg but I am unable to view it. Maybe others can, I cannot.

Yes, my point is that these PVP confilcts over areas and resources can very well be negatively affected if players can utilize corruption as a sort of shield to encroach on these areas and avoid PvP via the massive penalties from going corrupt for killing them would cause, deterring actual PvP engagements.

I need your definition of 'negatively impact'. Are you suggesting that a group of 4 players trying to level in a good grind spot that refuse to flag up that cannot be pushed out by 12 players due to sheer numbers, is negatively impacting anyone other than the zerg group that showed up to push them out? So one group of players (solos, small groups, small guilds, lower leveled/geared players) would have an advantage of being able to create a higher risk in being forced out and the other group (large groups and guilds, higher leveled/geared players) has the disadvantage of choosing that higher risk to force them out and you only want to notice the negative?

In the scenario I gave above, once corruption is not overtuned, the larger group will overcome the smaller and be able to push them out just due to their numbers, they will just take turns PKing, assuring no one goes red. Even if Steven attempts to balance, he will never be able to fully overcome the numbers game.

Like I said a while ago, having always played games with the hardcore PVP mindset where I felt that only the strongest on the server deserved the best grind spots and bosses 24/7 and how dare a small group or someone beneath me try to move in but this has not worked well for longevity of games that allowed this so I am forcing myself to accept that there might be a way to try to balance progression for all and to at least keep an open mind and give Steven's systems a try. After all, if we are indeed the biggest badasses, we shouldn't fear those beneath us keeping up or catching up in levels and/or gear, we should encourage it for better PVP right?

With Steven implementing an automatic flagging on death looting outside your group and guild, this should help encourage pvp at resource locations which is a positive for PVP.

And I am not saying you shouldnt be punished for PKing. You just shouldnt be given a death sentence for PKing someone purposely avoiding PvP while also moving in on an occupied area/resource. A couple freebie PKs with minor penalties to allow you to get the point across

You have heard repeatedly that Steven has stated that he purposely overtuned corruption just for test and know that a player going red on one kill later is not likely. Test away, you will simply come to the same conclusion we all know, Steven has intentionally overtuned corruption for test. 🤣

No I see what you have been saying. Youre saying my argument is strawman because I pointed out that putting yourself at a disadvantage is a bad idea, while also stating that I am a hardcore PvPer.

No, this was not what I was saying. I simply stated that anyone not flagging up to engage in PVP should not be complaining that PVP is not happening in test because there is plenty of it if you look for it so people should stop complaining.

I say that utilizing every advantage to win in PvP is just being smart. I will flag when its smart or when it seems fun. I dont see how that doesnt make me a hardcore PvPer?

The key part you seem to keep skipping over is 'complaining pvp is not happening. As I have stated repeatedly, I do not care if you ever flag, I do not care if you hand select only engagements where you have the clear advantage, just do not complain there is no PVP in test if you are never flagging because it is you limiting (reason does not matter) PVP by not staying flagged up or flagging up when you see others flagged.

Its_Me

Orym wrote: »

Open world flagging is not really the pvp content lol. Its more like a baseline right, like the right to own weapon.

You can hunt animals or shoot at a firing range but you are not allowed to kill someone unprovoked.
Same thing with flagging. You have a right to flag up and fight people whenever and do castle sieges, node wars or ship fights but you are not allowed to kill someone innocent.

The ACTUAL pvp content is coming.
Running around and getting corruption is not really pvp content.

I think Steven mentioned that like 80% of pvp would be coming from events and that PVP is an option in open world where his intention is to incentivize players flagging up against one another while trying to deter non-consensual pvp.

My server has open world pvp with people flagging on one another and after the first weekend, a lot less non-consensual.

Dolyem

DeeSav wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

DeeSav wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

DeeSav wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Corruption has a lot of work to go, but if it allows for an "opt-in pvp" system it will be bad. WoW War Mode pretending to be open world PvP.

You can attack at any time anywhere... just because you don't accept the consequence doesn't mean its opt in. There is a huge difference. I know I will find myself in many situations where i'll be contesting a grind/gather spot and gladly take on corruption to rid myself of someone intentionally being a nuisance, or come across an obvious bot and take solace in the fact I can enact economic justice upon them. The option is always there for you, its just not worth it to murder random helpless newbies and that is a good thing.

There will be plenty of PvP to be had outside of slaughtering those that want nothing to do with it.

In a PVX game, you shouldnt be able to choose to not have anything to do with open world PvP. Corruption has its place. But it shouldnt be a way to opt out of open world PvP via punishment being far too severe for what isnt considered actual griefing.

edit: also, pvp events are not open world PvP. You are meant to have a risk of dying to other players while adventuring for rewards.

edit edit: I am also a hardcore PvPer, but as is, I fully plan to utilize corruption as a shield while gathering and PVEing, and utilizing an alt or guildie with bounty hunting to just immediately track down my killer and get 4x rewards. But I doubt I will ever actually get PKed due to the overly severe consequences. Have plenty of other things I plan to test as well but thatll be for phase 3

No one gets to choose to opt out of PvP. You still have all the power that you hold dear. If you don't want to use your brain when exerting that power, that's on you. That's the system.

Sure I can. I dont fight back, I gather and utilize grind spots that are occupied and claimed to intentionally interfere with others. The only way they can push me out is by becoming corrupted. I am therefore utilizing corruption as a sort of shield. And if they ever do decide to go corrupted (which I am trying to get them to do in this case) either me or some guildies jump in and get 4x mats and some gear. Thats not what corruption is designed for. Either way I get to gather a bunch of stuff/XP grind depending on the difference in damage/number of players. Only loss I ever need to worry about is if the corrupted player escapes, which will be even harder for them to do once bounty hunting comes out and I can literally pull up a map and find them.

Except I can just still kill you if you are intentionally being a jackass. I'm not attached to my white vendor gear that I have multiple copies of in my storage and wouldn't wander around with an inventory full of materials. You gain nothing and waste you and your friends time not progressing in any way while my party is still grinding and working off my XP debt for me. Enjoy the 50 copper from my gear I guess, if my party doesn't loot it first.

My dude. If I'm interfering with people adventuring, they will have gear and materials. And I'd be able to measure the quality of your gear just based on the damage you do to me or even if you can actually hit considering stats would affect your ability to hit me more than likely. If you're referring to what it currently is designed as, yea there's no real risk due to wipes. But full release this is a pretty terrible plan.

snowmannumbertwo

LMAO, where is the down vote button. PK is not PVP. There are valid reasons to PK so that is why it is in game. For example cart movements between nodes, ANTI- Boss/Rare Blocking, retribution for previous offenses. PK is allowed to stop the other bane of all MMOS, PVE-cheesing.

But, a PVP game and system should not be designed around PK.

Dolyem

Its_Me wrote: »

Dolyem wrote: »

Thats a bit of an odd contradiction. Its said around the same time as the quote from the meme. Though the one from the meme was also from when he was specifically asked in a dev talk to elaborate on his definition of griefing and corruptions true intent(probably as a result from that youtube video). The quote you mentioned was a youtube comment he made while on a plane. Doesnt discredit it, but I will take the response he made on the dev stream over the comment while in the air as more reliable, whether or not that may be biased.

Could you please quote what you are addressing as I have no clue what I said that you are even commenting on here, you just did an @ me. I am contradicting? Steven is contradicting? Are you suggesting that Steven is not trying to prevent non-consensual combat and PKs???

Also, not certain what meme you are referring to. I see some broken jpg but I am unable to view it. Maybe others can, I cannot.

Yes, my point is that these PVP confilcts over areas and resources can very well be negatively affected if players can utilize corruption as a sort of shield to encroach on these areas and avoid PvP via the massive penalties from going corrupt for killing them would cause, deterring actual PvP engagements.

I need your definition of 'negatively impact'. Are you suggesting that a group of 4 players trying to level in a good grind spot that refuse to flag up that cannot be pushed out by 12 players due to sheer numbers, is negatively impacting anyone other than the zerg group that showed up to push them out? So one group of players (solos, small groups, small guilds, lower leveled/geared players) would have an advantage of being able to create a higher risk in being forced out and the other group (large groups and guilds, higher leveled/geared players) has the disadvantage of choosing that higher risk to force them out and you only want to notice the negative?

In the scenario I gave above, once corruption is not overtuned, the larger group will overcome the smaller and be able to push them out just due to their numbers, they will just take turns PKing, assuring no one goes red. Even if Steven attempts to balance, he will never be able to fully overcome the numbers game.

Like I said a while ago, having always played games with the hardcore PVP mindset where I felt that only the strongest on the server deserved the best grind spots and bosses 24/7 and how dare a small group or someone beneath me try to move in but this has not worked well for longevity of games that allowed this so I am forcing myself to accept that there might be a way to try to balance progression for all and to at least keep an open mind and give Steven's systems a try. After all, if we are indeed the biggest badasses, we shouldn't fear those beneath us keeping up or catching up in levels and/or gear, we should encourage it for better PVP right?

With Steven implementing an automatic flagging on death looting outside your group and guild, this should help encourage pvp at resource locations which is a positive for PVP.

And I am not saying you shouldnt be punished for PKing. You just shouldnt be given a death sentence for PKing someone purposely avoiding PvP while also moving in on an occupied area/resource. A couple freebie PKs with minor penalties to allow you to get the point across

You have heard repeatedly that Steven has stated that he purposely overtuned corruption just for test and know that a player going red on one kill later is not likely. Test away, you will simply come to the same conclusion we all know, Steven has intentionally overtuned corruption for test. 🤣

No I see what you have been saying. Youre saying my argument is strawman because I pointed out that putting yourself at a disadvantage is a bad idea, while also stating that I am a hardcore PvPer.

No, this was not what I was saying. I simply stated that anyone not flagging up to engage in PVP should not be complaining that PVP is not happening in test because there is plenty of it if you look for it so people should stop complaining.

I say that utilizing every advantage to win in PvP is just being smart. I will flag when its smart or when it seems fun. I dont see how that doesnt make me a hardcore PvPer?

The key part you seem to keep skipping over is 'complaining pvp is not happening. As I have stated repeatedly, I do not care if you ever flag, I do not care if you hand select only engagements where you have the clear advantage, just do not complain there is no PVP in test if you are never flagging because it is you limiting (reason does not matter) PVP by not staying flagged up or flagging up when you see others flagged.

It didn't quote you for some reason, but the comment you made previously to that one is what I was referring to.

And this pic should work

Dolyem

snowmannumbertwo wrote: »

LMAO, where is the down vote button. PK is not PVP. There are valid reasons to PK so that is why it is in game. For example cart movements between nodes, ANTI- Boss/Rare Blocking, retribution for previous offenses. PK is allowed to stop the other bane of all MMOS, PVE-cheesing.

But, a PVP game and system should not be designed around PK.

PKing within reason is definitely PvP. Griefing however is not PvP. And they are not the same.

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