Can we do something about Griefers ?

I'm on Shol server, this past two days have been an horrible experience. I'm looking to test Carphin Tower content, each time we go there there is one (1) player named Heiler from Standby Rubin guild that wants us to pay. We did not, he then proceeded to pull large packs of mobs onto us over and over again until we die. If we kill him we get corrupted, even if he dies from mobs, he's back within 2 minutes. He's at max level so doesn't care about exp debt.

I tried the day later, within 10 minutes he was here, apparently someone from our group was streaming. We moved to Gravespeak, he followed us all the way to grief us there as well.

I'm playing this game to test its content and provide feedback. I'm not interested in providing entertainment for some jobless loser. Want me to provide feedback about Carphin ? Well guess what every time I went there I got griefed.

I'm done playing until something is done.

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Untypical

Savic Prosperity wrote: »

Untypical wrote: »

pyreal wrote: »

Mudkip is doing this on Lyneth at HH.
He's lvl 25, and was dragging multiple three star elites into our group, blinking away, and dashing back in to loot our corpses as soon as we got wiped.

Thankfully one of our party members was recording and so sent in a griefing report.

how did he report I have some to report too, and the question is if they are allowing it as part of the game or it's considered bluntly griefing.

would be curious where you report it too
as for how its griefing, if they were testing the limits of the borked aggro system they would only do it once as a stretch twice, and frankly wouldnt really bother to loot peoples glint since if they were wanting to steal peoples glint or wanted the spot the system is intended for you to fight them in pvp not using mobs to avoid the corruption system

I reported inside a bug report

excidius

To be honest if training mobs into groups in an attempt to get players killed without engaging in pvp is not considered griefing possibly even exploiting it is one of the few things I will probably consider as making this game not for me (at launch), I can deal with it in an alpha (for now at least) and I can handle the fact that occasionally someone might do this trying to keep themself alive not as a griefing or exploitive behaviour but when you see people doing this 10 hours a day multiple days a week at that point it is pretty clear they are doing it on purpose and are a bad actor who needs to be dealt with.
These people also tend to loot you and if attacked alt+F4 or log out to character and back in to drop their flag which is another exploit when used solely for the purpose of avoiding the 1-2 minute flag timer INTENDED by the game.

This is the kind of behaviour that will see many casual players quit and for the long term health of the game casual players are needed

Agripinensia

We have 3 players (That I actually have the names of on the server that abuse the honestly not so good AI system (running through mobs or mobs running through your group making them aggressive towards you instead of the person who pulled them).

Does it make sense to report them?
They effectively shut down Carphin (which they advertise) ever since they started being bored, people can't advertise where they want to farm (otherwise they show up and ruin it for everyone).
They know we can't do anything about it unless we are willing to go corrupted and loose our gear.

This seems to me like obvious abuse of two systems that are clearly intended to not work this way.
They are also guildless, so declaring war isn't an option either.

They go so far to actually write in global that they will "shut down Carphin for maintenance".

I would kindly ask to either take action against this behaviour.
By the way: These are the same people who abused the fact that you could instantly switch guilds to declare wars against guilds to freely grief low level players.

It would be different if they at least intended to use the farmspots themselves or free them up for their guild- but there is no ingame benefit to them, they just want to piss people off and make them quit the game.

It might make sense to actually flesh out more what is considered being abuse/exploitation and what is not.
Especially for the communities coming from a more "letter of the law" culture as these people don't think they are doing anything wrong.

P.S.: Please don't hold the mistakes I clearly made writing this up against me, as english is just my 2nd language.
The realm I am talking about is EU-Shol.
I am pretty sure anyone playing there will be able to name at least 2 of the players names, but I will leave them out here since it is my intention to get a general ruling and not single 2 players out or incentivice real life action (apart from maybe banning them from the game).

Agripinensia

Untypical wrote: »

it's not about PK, I support PK to the fullest.
it's about abusing the game and bypassing the limitations.
when the rogue comes out it can become a strategy if it's allowed.

This is the problem.
Didn't see this thread for some reason when i made the other one.

You can't PK them bc the corruption system f-s you if you do.
You can't ignore them because they will continuously pull mobs through your group.
You can't declare war because they are not in a guild.

excidius wrote: »

To be honest if training mobs into groups in an attempt to get players killed without engaging in pvp is not considered griefing possibly even exploiting it is one of the few things I will probably consider as making this game not for me (at launch), I can deal with it in an alpha (for now at least) and I can handle the fact that occasionally someone might do this trying to keep themself alive not as a griefing or exploitive behaviour but when you see people doing this 10 hours a day multiple days a week at that point it is pretty clear they are doing it on purpose and are a bad actor who needs to be dealt with.
These people also tend to loot you and if attacked alt+F4 or log out to character and back in to drop their flag which is another exploit when used solely for the purpose of avoiding the 1-2 minute flag timer INTENDED by the game.

This is the kind of behaviour that will see many casual players quit and for the long term health of the game casual players are needed

This is how I see it as well.
I also can't see how it is helpful in any way.
They have effectively shut down carphin for 2 weeks now on our realm.
And here "Inaction is action".
You tell them that you reported them but they don't care as they think (so far correctly) that nothing will happen to them.

Steven and Intrepid said, that they want to be strict when it comes to griefing. So please are!
Yes, sometimes you run away and pull a mob group into another player group accidentally - that is not what this is! They do it deliberately and even post in chat that they will "shut down carphin for maintenance"!

Gizban

Mudkip likes to do this at HH on Lyneth.

Silvertree

People are frequently doing this to groups (and solo players) on Resna at both Church of the Seven and Highwayman Hills. I killed one of them, became corrupted, and logged out.

I'm pretty sure their goal is to irritate people into becoming corrupted so they can steal high-quality gear without farming. I'll delete my character before I reward them with my gear.

The corruption system is protecting and rewarding griefers while making the game toxic for normal players. If changes aren't made, I won't be playing much.

Rym

Yes, this is not intended and an oversight.

The corruption and blight system should cover this type of behavior.

The detection system would see whether you pulled mobs and said mobs killed other players multiple times in a row. Each time you pull a mob and that mob has managed to kill a player that is not part of your group or raid, you should accumulate Blight.

This type of Blight should last for about 120 minutes or more, and if you continue pulling mobs and they keep killing players outside of your party, your Blight accumulation should increase exponentially.

After you have done this for about 10 times, your fate is sealed, your Blight turns to Corruption at level 2 or level 3, similar to the murders you committed with your pulls plus an additional punishment for intentional griefing, ending up with Corruption III or IV.

This, in my opinion, would make for an amazing griefing deterrent. Additionally, the corruption and blight system for this behavior should be IP-wide, so if you get corrupted on a low lvl griefing char, you would spawn in with that corruption on your main char as well.

Another easier option but less punishing is for the griefer to be forcefully turned Combatant the moment a mob they pulled kills a player not in their party, this would be the most immediate and simplest solution that is least punishing to the griefer.

But I think bricking your character is a more fitting deterrent for griefers.

Rym

They will likely wake up with their characters "missing" soon, sooner than dec 20th.

Agripinensia

Thing is, that this needs to be communicated explicitly - it would also be good to have an option to report harassment and abuse.

And people really seem to think (at least they say so) that this doesn't constitute exploiting/harassing players.

Agripinensia

Ironically I think longterm the best solution would be to make it, so the AI builds more aggro against the initially pulling player, requiring multiple attacks or a spot to get it off you.

If being close wasn't enough to actually aggro the mobs, this abuse would be much harder to pull off.
That would make the suggested Blight System unnecessary.

Its also annoying that whenever you run through another grp fighting mobs, half of those follow your group into the "dungeon" (Happens regularly at Steelbloom) - for both groups...

But there will always be some ways to exploit systems that are supposed to prevent exploitation (here: Corruption - in a PvP game we would have just killed the a*****e), I think it needs to be clear that this is abuse and not tolerated.

Ironically I think Stevens Joke about the Gallows is actually a pretty good idea.
1st time: Put the character into one of those middle-age tomato throwing things for a few days
2nd time: Gallows

Shaming sucks for the person being shamed, but it works wonders - suspensions quite often get explained by "I had something come up in real life"...

Gizban

The problem is the leashing mechanic.

I shot a grem that was next to a goblin shaman, the grem started attacking the goblin!

I guess it's based on proximity, not DMG dealt or initial aggro.

Gizban

Untypical wrote: »

pyreal wrote: »

Mudkip is doing this on Lyneth at HH.
He's lvl 25, and was dragging multiple three star elites into our group, blinking away, and dashing back in to loot our corpses as soon as we got wiped.

Thankfully one of our party members was recording and so sent in a griefing report.

how did he report I have some to report too, and the question is if they are allowing it as part of the game or it's considered bluntly griefing.

I'm assuming through the bug report screen but I'm not sure.

Gizban

Needs full acct ban.

Fippy

Yeah, I don't know what should be done specifically, but the current way that people can get you killed without going corrupt is extremely annoying. If there's ways to avoid corruption and still grief, people are gonna do it every time.

Endowed

Streamers are far more destructive and problematic.

nanfoodle

Ya something needs to be done without breaking the game.

ShivaFang

Untypical wrote: »

Some players are exploiting the game by leading high-level mobs to low-level players or aggroing a lot of mobs into parties.
causing their deaths without engaging in PvP and bypassing the corruption system.

Flag up and puppeteer the trainer, then 'misdirection' to drop your aggro. (If you are a bard of course)

The trainer will be quickly swarmed by the enemies.

This is exactly the kind of thing the open world pvp solves. You have no recourse at all without it.

If that griefer is in a guild then get your allies together for a war declaration. These types of players crumple to a war dec every time I've seen it done.

ajax934

Players are using mobs to avoid pvp and kill other players. They run full packs of mobs to other players and alt F4 so that mobs drop threat and kill other players. They then log in and loot bodies.

They do this to avoid pvp and avoid corruption.

Is this intended? Does anyone have a link to comments on this from the Devs?

If this is intended, there's no point to flag up. You can just train mobs onto other people and get the same effect without risk of corruption.

Andi

Don't even have to Alt+F4. Most of the time, mobs just stop following you and turn on whoever you ran through.

ShivaFang

This is the kind of thing open world pvp is for, though corruption is too harsh to deal with this kind of thing.. but it's an option.
This is the kind of thing you could do nothing at all about if open world pvp didn't exist.

Personally, I like to flag up and puppeteer the trainer and then use 'misdirection' to prevent the mobs from agroing me.

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