I would like to personally thank the GMs for murdering me.

Sincerely. Did I get caught up in a swarm of level 20 elite minotaurs that got spawned on all the AFK botters at Titans Ring? Yes. Was it worth it to know the GMs are very actively watching all the people going a bit beyond the limits of "testing?" ABSOLUTELY!

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ShivaFang

omg I was just joking in voice chat earlier today that they should do this and rename that area to 'Titan's Sphincter'.
Hilarous that they did at least part of this.

Gizban

Fippy wrote: »

Sincerely. Did I get caught up in a swarm of level 20 elite minotaurs that got spawned on all the AFK botters at Titans Ring? Yes. Was it worth it to know the GMs are very actively watching all the people going a bit beyond the limits of "testing?" ABSOLUTELY!

So, you are part of the problem?

Andi

If they don't want players to abuse the event system, the solution isn't to spawn elite mobs and kill them all. The solution is to make events more dynamic, have enough events to truly have one going on somewhere on the map, and to block an event from happening again for a certain time, without making the rotation calculable.

Killing players is just private-server-style. I can look past that during alpha, but it better doesn't happen when the game goes live.

Ardiwen

The complete story is that a level 25 player was pulling players off the ledge into the Titan Ring to be killed by mobs. Then a GM came and enabled this player by bringing in level 20 elite minotaurs into the event that killed all players including me. It was not fair treatment to normal players trying to level from the event. It is certainly a bad representation of AoC.

Agripinensia

Andi wrote: »

If they don't want players to abuse the event system, the solution isn't to spawn elite mobs and kill them all. The solution is to make events more dynamic, have enough events to truly have one going on somewhere on the map, and to block an event from happening again for a certain time, without making the rotation calculable.

Killing players is just private-server-style. I can look past that during alpha, but it better doesn't happen when the game goes live.

Idk - I actually like active involvement of GMs as long as it remains semi-fair and they aren't settling personal scores.
Every system no matter how well designed gets abused. And not every abuse justifies a ban. Having some stuff happening in the intermediate seems like a good solution to me.

Too many companies that just autoban ppl (ironic as I am calling for bans in another thread :P) and let everything else go rampant (until you need to ban for the tiniest of infractions, creating an atmosphere of fear no one wants to play in).

I think most ppl know when they are abusing a bug/unfinished system and when not.
I definitely wish for more active involvement on the EU realms though. Like in WoW, everything I know of where GMs involved themselves happened on NA (at least it feels like it!).

Gizban

Juliea wrote: »

The complete story is that a level 25 player was pulling players off the ledge into the Titan Ring to be killed by mobs. Then a GM came and enabled this player by bringing in level 20 elite minotaurs into the event that killed all players including me. It was not fair treatment to normal players trying to level from the event. It is certainly a bad representation of AoC.

That doesn't sound like a complete story.
Saying the GM 'enabled' the player, and that it wasn't 'fair' shows bias.

How was a player pulling other players off a ledge? A tank pvping lower lvls?
And why? What were they doing on the ledge?

Gizban

Fippy wrote: »

Sincerely. Did I get caught up in a swarm of level 20 elite minotaurs that got spawned on all the AFK botters at Titans Ring? Yes. Was it worth it to know the GMs are very actively watching all the people going a bit beyond the limits of "testing?" ABSOLUTELY!

If it was justifiable it was not murder, it was punishment and retribution.

Ardiwen

pyreal wrote: »

Juliea wrote: »

The complete story is that a level 25 player was pulling players off the ledge into the Titan Ring to be killed by mobs. Then a GM came and enabled this player by bringing in level 20 elite minotaurs into the event that killed all players including me. It was not fair treatment to normal players trying to level from the event. It is certainly a bad representation of AoC.

That doesn't sound like a complete story.
Saying the GM 'enabled' the player, and that it wasn't 'fair' shows bias.

How was a player pulling other players off a ledge? A tank pvping lower lvls?
And why? What were they doing on the ledge?

I was there. The player was doing this two days in a roll. The GM came both days. They were suppose to be trying to find bots at the event getting xp to level. The player was a tank using his pull after he flagged. The player considered that his role was to expose afk players who were waiting for the event which takes approximately 15 minutes to occur again. The player is a streamer and he only posted a video on youtube that doesn't show what he really did. I wasn't on the ledge, but was fishing in the water in the circle. He pulled mobs into the area, which also attacked me. I will have my friend who was also there share his evidence.

Smaashley

Agripinensia wrote: »

Andi wrote: »

If they don't want players to abuse the event system, the solution isn't to spawn elite mobs and kill them all. The solution is to make events more dynamic, have enough events to truly have one going on somewhere on the map, and to block an event from happening again for a certain time, without making the rotation calculable.

Killing players is just private-server-style. I can look past that during alpha, but it better doesn't happen when the game goes live.

Every system no matter how well designed gets abused.

This is not true. There are systems that are created that can't be abused. Most Guild Wars 2's systems can't be abused in a way they did not intend (mostly because they gatekeep content). If a system can be abused in a way that wasn't intended, that's entirely the company's fault because they created that system and did not put the necessary efforts to counter that abusive gameplay.

Now we're entering an ethic situation because a lot of human will abuse systems (even in real life) at their advantage. Is it a good thing to do ? No. Will they do it if the system let them do it ? Yes, because it's in their favor.

Fippy

pyreal wrote: »

Fippy wrote: »

Sincerely. Did I get caught up in a swarm of level 20 elite minotaurs that got spawned on all the AFK botters at Titans Ring? Yes. Was it worth it to know the GMs are very actively watching all the people going a bit beyond the limits of "testing?" ABSOLUTELY!

So, you are part of the problem?

No, I was there running the event, it finished, and I ran back towards the center to get the reward chest not realizing that all those higher level elites had been spawned in.

Fippy

Juliea wrote: »

The complete story is that a level 25 player was pulling players off the ledge into the Titan Ring to be killed by mobs. Then a GM came and enabled this player by bringing in level 20 elite minotaurs into the event that killed all players including me. It was not fair treatment to normal players trying to level from the event. It is certainly a bad representation of AoC.

I know who you're talking about as I was there, and if you're not AFK, getting pulled off the ledge by him won't matter. The only people that guy was trying to get were the people botting and avoiding auto AFK log outs.

The GM wasn't enabling him specifically, they've been there multiple times across all the weekends, and this time he came by and gave a 5 min warning, which I apparently just didn't see, as I *also* got caught up and killed during this even though I was actually participating in all the events.

They're trying to establish that avoiding the auto log out AFK timer to farm an event is not something they intend, and the GMs are aware it's happening, and will be implementing fixes with time.

I mean yeah a 2% experience penalty isn't fun but the event gives you 11k exp every 15 minutes, so just sit around for the next round, and appreciate that the GMs are trying to maintain the event integrity IMO.

Fippy

pyreal wrote: »

Fippy wrote: »

Sincerely. Did I get caught up in a swarm of level 20 elite minotaurs that got spawned on all the AFK botters at Titans Ring? Yes. Was it worth it to know the GMs are very actively watching all the people going a bit beyond the limits of "testing?" ABSOLUTELY!

If it was justifiable it was not murder, it was punishment and retribution.

I was participating in the event, the swarm just happened to eat me as well because I didn't see the warning the GM gave prior to the summon. The botters deaths absolutely justified and not murder though.

Ardiwen

Fippy wrote: »

pyreal wrote: »

Fippy wrote: »

Sincerely. Did I get caught up in a swarm of level 20 elite minotaurs that got spawned on all the AFK botters at Titans Ring? Yes. Was it worth it to know the GMs are very actively watching all the people going a bit beyond the limits of "testing?" ABSOLUTELY!

If it was justifiable it was not murder, it was punishment and retribution.

I was participating in the event, the swarm just happened to eat me as well because I didn't see the warning the GM gave prior to the summon. The botters deaths absolutely justified and not murder though.

I didn't see any warnings either because I was chatting with my friend at the event and didn't know I needed to be worried about a GM killing me.

Fippy

Juliea wrote: »

I didn't see any warnings either because I was chatting with my friend at the event and didn't know I needed to be worried about a GM killing me.

Yeah, it may be that you've just been fortunate so far. They have been present almost every weekend when I've been there, and each time they have killed people. Although last time it was a different GM that summoned/killed people individually instead of summoning monsters.

In any case, the event is on their radar as being a spot where botters are gathering, and they are implementing fixes. There's also a number of areas in the landscape that have holes you can glitch into as well, and they hide back there, that I have reported.

Anyway if you are legitimately running the event and just half-AFK in between like I am, just know you're doing so at your own risk.

Ardiwen

I have beta tested many games and they had bots to deal with also. But I was never killed in those test by GM actions of those games. Regardless, of the reasonings, it was a poor decision to kill customers who have paid significant money to test this game. I will never be convinced that this was not bad behavior on the part of the level 25 player/streamer and the GM that was encouraging his behavior by not censoring him. Vigilante behavior should never be part of a test for any game.

Dezemi

Juliea wrote: »

I have beta tested many games and they had bots to deal with also. But I was never killed in those test by GM actions of those games. Regardless, of the reasonings, it was a poor decision to kill customers who have paid significant money to test this game. I will never be convinced that this was not bad behavior on the part of the level 25 player/streamer and the GM that was encouraging his behavior by not censoring him. Vigilante behavior should never be part of a test for any game.

To be fair, you are very much entitled to that opinion.

I myself am quite impressed with the response, and definitely approve of it, and your "I did not see the warning because I was chatting with my friends" does not really convince me otherwise. :') Guess it's almost like people might have different opinions on the matter.

Veeshan

Andi wrote: »

If they don't want players to abuse the event system, the solution isn't to spawn elite mobs and kill them all. The solution is to make events more dynamic, have enough events to truly have one going on somewhere on the map, and to block an event from happening again for a certain time, without making the rotation calculable.

Killing players is just private-server-style. I can look past that during alpha, but it better doesn't happen when the game goes live.

why not i think it a great idea, to be fair lets automate it by having events have a 10% chance to spawn as an extream varient that puts mobs everywhere with in the event circle that murders anyone who might be afking it :P

to be fair i kinda like it when GM steps in and does something in the world cause it makes things less predicatable

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