Dwarf-flip is awful.

The Dwarf-flip: Defies physics, especially when you jump backwards. In plate armor. Makes dwarves silly and comedic instead of the lovable grumping curmudgeons of fantasy. Garden gnomes.

Trying to imagine when in a dwarf's early life he had time to study acrobatics while mining and marching under the mountain.
Gimli, Gloin, Bombur, Thorin and Flippywoo.

Return some dignity to the Dunir by keeping their feet on the ground!

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CROW3

Better than being tossed.

nanfoodle

Dwarf flip is epic and takes me back to the EQ1 Dwarfs that used to flip. I also think it looks really well done in Ashes. Please keep it.

Smaashley

Unpopular opinion : I love the flipping. I just don't like how the animation is made. I don't want to initiate my flip while I'm already in the air and I certainly don't want to frontflip while moving backward (I want to backflip actually)

Valcutio

I like it.

CROW3

Meh - it's kind of cute.

Shabooey

It's all personal preference really isn't it. I'm not a fan of the flip, think it looks silly and to be honest not a fan of the Dunir model but hey ho I'll just play another race.

DerHubi

The flip rly doesn't fit the dwarfs, it would be cool if they make it deactivateable how they mentioned it in the last stream.

Uncommon Sense

I tried to raise concern about how physics defyingly awful and lore inappropriate the flip on basic jump for Dunir (tradition fantasy dwarves)

A long discussion
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/49663/not-really-feeling-the-whole-front-flip-dwarfs/p1

But now I've seen footage that basic jumps front flip in any direction even when moving backwards which make absolutely no fkn sense in any facet. While sprint jumping removes the flip and looks normal and "better"

I'd be happy to compromise and make the sprint jump front flip forward and make all other jumps normal.

We've seen both animations the only problem is they should be the other way around to make any sense at all.

Gizban

Didn't WoW Night Elves back flip going backwards as well?

Dezemi

pyreal wrote: »

Didn't WoW Night Elves back flip going backwards as well?

Yes. It looks stupid. Less of an issue as they did not so it 100% of the time though. Blood elves have a spin. Worgens also have a flip.

Razelthethird

dwarf flip is awesome, ignore the op

Fippy

nanfoodle wrote: »

Dwarf flip is epic and takes me back to the EQ1 Dwarfs that used to flip. I also think it looks really well done in Ashes. Please keep it.

Dwarf flip in EQ was a forward roll (See 52 seconds), not a flip. I'm not 100% certain but I think when they updated the character models it did become a flip, and if my memory isn't failing me there, then I dislike it for the same reasons I'm about to list for the Dunir flips.

Now, I personally don't think dwarven coded races should be doing mid air acrobatics at all in the first place because it seems to defy every other aspect of racial lore built into that type of race, but if they're gonna flip at *least* let it look like it conforms to the laws of physics.

The current animation just looks really really bad. It looks completely disjointed and unnatural, and that would be the case whether or not the character was a Dunir. Somehow the character does no pre-jump body positioning, then jumps into the air at an angle not conducive towards doing a front flip, then tucks and flips at a much faster animation speed than the initial jump was, then untucks, completely halts their rotational momentum, and continues to move in a slower animation until it lands.

It's just not how people doing on the run flips actually move.

Gymnastics: (See 0:52) If I had to guess, this is the type of flip they made their animations based off of, as it's the most similar, but the in game animations completely misses there significant amount of body positioning that happens prior to the initiation of the flip.

Parkour: (See 11:23) Again, there is significant body positioning prior to the flip.

Parkour 2: (See 4:40) again, pre-positioning of the body.

Also, --And this might be the most important part-- in all of the above cases, the flip occurs from the moment the person leaves the ground. It's not something that starts after they're already mid air and then somehow also stops while they're still midair.

So is there a good example of an on the move front flip that takes into consideration the fact that it's going to be *really hard* to animate all of the body positioning required to jump according to physics, but also shows a front flip that accounts for the fact that the body should be rotating from the second it leaves the ground until the second it lands again? Somewhat ironically, WoW's Night Elves are a perfect example of this 0:10 onward. So, IMO if we want the Dunir to flip, we need to admit that we're giving them the Night Elf treatment.

tl;dr Dunir front flips make no sense lore-wise, but if we have to tolerate it please make it at least look good.

Steeler

Its AMAZING.

iznebula

How to make one of the coolest races in fantasy lore and reduce it to a joke race. The justification from Steven, "Dwarves have the strongest legs". Having strong legs doesn't immediately translate to being able to do flips. Strongmen and Weight Lighters are among the people with the strongest legs and they use the strength of their legs to lift, not to flip around like a gymnast.

Dwarves have always been a stoic and sturdy race, specially mountain dwarves like the Dunir are supposed to be. If you want to give flips to Dwarves, the best race to do that with is the Nikua, it would give them something more to set them apart.

Either way, it gives me a reason to not play this race, which doesn't bother me one bit. In general, I think the flip should be race/class specific and depending on race and class combination it is either a flip or a spin. That's just me though.

nanfoodle

I think it world look better if it was a random animation tied to both jump and dodge. Maybe once in 3 to 5 jumps.

Fippy wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

Dwarf flip is epic and takes me back to the EQ1 Dwarfs that used to flip. I also think it looks really well done in Ashes. Please keep it.

Dwarf flip in EQ was a forward roll (See 52 seconds), not a flip. I'm not 100% certain but I think when they updated the character models it did become a flip, and if my memory isn't failing me there, then I dislike it for the same reasons I'm about to list for the Dunir flips.

Now, I personally don't think dwarven coded races should be doing mid air acrobatics at all in the first place because it seems to defy every other aspect of racial lore built into that type of race, but if they're gonna flip at *least* let it look like it conforms to the laws of physics.

The current animation just looks really really bad. It looks completely disjointed and unnatural, and that would be the case whether or not the character was a Dunir. Somehow the character does no pre-jump body positioning, then jumps into the air at an angle not conducive towards doing a front flip, then tucks and flips at a much faster animation speed than the initial jump was, then untucks, completely halts their rotational momentum, and continues to move in a slower animation until it lands.

It's just not how people doing on the run flips actually move.

Gymnastics: (See 0:52) If I had to guess, this is the type of flip they made their animations based off of, as it's the most similar, but the in game animations completely misses there significant amount of body positioning that happens prior to the initiation of the flip.

Parkour: (See 11:23) Again, there is significant body positioning prior to the flip.

Parkour 2: (See 4:40) again, pre-positioning of the body.

Also, --And this might be the most important part-- in all of the above cases, the flip occurs from the moment the person leaves the ground. It's not something that starts after they're already mid air and then somehow also stops while they're still midair.

So is there a good example of an on the move front flip that takes into consideration the fact that it's going to be *really hard* to animate all of the body positioning required to jump according to physics, but also shows a front flip that accounts for the fact that the body should be rotating from the second it leaves the ground until the second it lands again? Somewhat ironically, WoW's Night Elves are a perfect example of this 0:10 onward. So, IMO if we want the Dunir to flip, we need to admit that we're giving them the Night Elf treatment.

tl;dr Dunir front flips make no sense lore-wise, but if we have to tolerate it please make it at least look good.

This also a DnD thing. Just about every race could do acrobatics it was included in there combat skills as well. This was also something the dwarves could do. Matter of fact in real life dwarves to acrobatics there in the Special Olympics doing it in raal life. I don't see the problem where a race of dwarves like to do front flips. I think we're really nitpicking here if this is worthy of a thread.

vellion07

Keep the flip on the dunir, but on the coastal dwarves....

Make it a barrel roll instead because they be in that tube brah surfin that gnar.

Uncommon Sense

pyreal wrote: »

Didn't WoW Night Elves back flip going backwards as well?

NE flip was random not every jump. EQ dwarf jumping was an easter egg abilty not basic kit.
Already tried to explain why a race of mountain climbing mineshaft digging people would never flip jump...Mostly because the beards would make it impossible to tuck

The Nikua would make more sense for a flippy race (water/beach/tribal/freedom)...I made this suggestion they would be better suited for acrobatics.

As of now the Dunir are being treated like a joke and I hate it, it goes against everything the Lore implies. And the only justification is the EQ dev has got some fetish for it and somehow that makes it justifiable.

My biggest issue now other the front flipping backwards. Is that sprint jumping is normal non flip.
Which totally negates the argument that the flip is required for distance and height. Both argument were already **** in the first place. But now we have this situation where Dunir have a normal jump animation as well as the mandatory flip.

SO to appease everyone (those who like it and those who dont) Just make the flip work forwards when sprinting (more believable) and have the normal jump for non sprinting...aka basic jump.

surely this makes sense...

Fippy

nanfoodle wrote: »

. Matter of fact in real life dwarves to acrobatics there in the Special Olympics doing it in raal life. I don't see the problem where a race of dwarves like to do front flips. I think we're really nitpicking here if this is worthy of a thread.

Any person doing front flips in real life has spent a significant amount of time acquiring the skill, it's not just something all humans can randomly do because we're humans. If the front flip animation was unlocked based on a character acquiring certain acrobatic type skills, I would be fine with it. But making front flipping wildly through the air a base ability of a race whose lore includes literally "diggy diggy tunnel", hefting and wielding massive hammers, enjoying spending time in cramped underground places, and generally valuing being very grounded and practical? That makes no sense.

Meanwhile as others have mentioned, the Nikua already have established lore that would fit with flipping around. They're already coded as free spirits, and thought of the mountains as a literal prison. They're the kind of people who just might have the kind of free time where everyone just learns to front flip as a child.

When I picture the Dunir, I picture Eddie Hall. I think most people thinking of Dunir/Dwarves are thinking of similarly stount and strong people. The Nikua racial description makes me picture someone more like Simone Biles, personally. I could see the Nikua frontflipping randomly. I just can't with the Dunir.

Iffithy

Pro flip! Don’t change it

lukedawuke

"defies physics".. but hurling fireballs and playing magical songs on your flute, thats perfectly scientific

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