[FOCUSED FEEDBACK] Befallen Forge Dungeon - Wednesday, December 18, 2024

We would love if y'all could grab gear in Joeva and play through Befallen Forge. The team is specifically looking for feedback on the following:

How do environmental hazards feel?
How do the mobs feel? Does their difficulty, time-to-kill, and density feel good?

We're grateful for everyone that's been able to join us for testing!

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Comments

Rednam

Environmental hazards are about right i think. just gotta be careful where you move. lava seemed to not hurt when mounted.

Finally got in an "organized" raid and briefly, ttk and such seemed ok so far.
Dont know how a full party would do.

onewingedangelo1

I tried to test the Befallen Forge raid. After about half out of having the raid wipe to all the magic damage that goes out in there over and over I gave up.

I'm sure you are collecting some kind of data from this but how it feels on the player side.....

This whole test was a waste of time. We were only given Melee weapons and lvl 10 arcane ranged weapons. No bows. And for armor all we got was heavy.

As far as I could tell, all the damage in that place was fire or lightning.... so our lack of any magic defense made it pointless.

As a bard all of my spells were doing nothing because I couldn't gear properly, and I don't have the appropriate level 25 weapon skills, because you don't boost that exp at all when you boost us for whatever reason.

Again. I'm sure you got useful data out of this but to answer your specific questions

How do environmental hazards feel?

Felt like shit because I was going into the content with shit gear and shit skills.

How do the mobs feel? Does their difficulty, time-to-kill, and density feel good?

Felt like shit because I only had physical defense and all the damage I was taking was magical. I also couldn't hit for shit because I only had lvl 10 weapons and couldn't heal for shit either because... I didn't have appropriate stats to test it properly. I would get hit with stuff I couldn't see because of how many people were there, and then I would be dead because someone pulled the boss and the lag would catch up and apparely he dived throw us wiping us all. Since I couldn't set my home point at the Emberspring out side because it wasn't interacting with anyone, that was the end of testing for me.

Suggestion for future tests.

You can give us exp, and gold... can you give us items? Is it possible to give us just one of ever lvl 20 basic weapon and one of every lvl 20 basic armor so people can gear themselves properly? This way you don't have to spawn a town and make us fight the lag to try and function as we fight the lag for gear.

Then just give us weapon exp.

Fllicker

mobs felt like they had a good amount and decent respawn to allow one or two raid groups to fight a mob each per room at the least. raiding felt very chaotic but i think that is in part due to this being a raid test, though the ability to better see who is in your party might really benefit the raid groups in my opinion.. i did get one shot as a fighter by a mob (the magma monster) which was surprising (had the base iron armor and weapons going into the raid), im unsure if this is an intentional amount of damage (it was the jump slam that they do), that being of at least 4485 damage but i might scale that back a bit just so people arent getting one shot by non boss mobs maybe. damage output comparative to amount of health of enemies felt pretty good though. i felt like everyone was using all of their abilities on most mobs and i felt like i was impacting the fight with my attacks well enough.

Azhrei

Roshen wrote: »

How do environmental hazards feel?

~I did not see any huge issue with them. I died very fast to mobs.

How do the mobs feel? Does their difficulty, time-to-kill, and density feel good?

~They felt like proper dungeon mobs! I cannot wait to go in with a group and actually have to line up CC and interrupts, to use proper pulling techniques. I felt like that they hit hard so I would want the best gear and the right comp to take it on.

!

kalkaz

Started the raid, got a little bit in. Random Tank player runs out of the dungeon and trains two Magma golems and a forge hound into our group. Wiped us. I know that isn't what you're looking for, but same here.
Note: We had a 16 person raid.
Note p2: Went back, got to lava Bridge puzzle, couldn't understand it but there were a lot of way to get around the lava atm so that's what most people did. I like the mob density and the difficulty seems good for the level and gear you should be at so far. I also fell of the edge haha

Aaricia

Feedback on Environmental Hazards, Mob Design, and Dungeon Dynamics

1. Environmental Hazards:
The open-air dungeon concept makes for an interesting environment, but it introduces significant challenges for players who prefer to group exclusively with their guild. The combination of hard-hitting mobs, environmental hazards, and the constant threat of competing guilds or players flagged for PvP creates a chaotic and often frustrating experience. Instead of being able to focus on the mechanics of the dungeon itself, much of our time was spent keeping our heads on a swivel for potential PvP threats (of which there were). This detracted from the enjoyment of the dungeon and made it difficult to engage fully with the PvE content.

2. Mob Difficulty, Time-to-Kill, and Density:

Mob Difficulty: While the mobs themselves presented an appropriate level of challenge, the frequent one-shot mechanics (such as the magma monster's jump slam dealing over 4,400 damage) felt overtuned for players using base iron gear. This type of mechanic is especially punishing in a high-density, chaotic environment as before the party was wiped, the sheer amount of AoE spells obscuring visual indicators of impending impact from a mob contributed most to team members being KO'd. Scaling the damage output of non-boss mobs to allow players to survive at least one hit might improve the experience, but we'll still need to be able to see the hits coming through the blinding lights of friendly fire.
Time-to-Kill and Density: The time-to-kill felt reasonable for most mobs, and their density allowed raid groups to engage without melting down enemies; allowed for everyone in the raid to get a hit on the enemy---but it absolutely will require raid groups as the current time-to-kill/density would not allow a typical guild party to make it all that deep.

3. Gear Disparities and Testing Setup:
As with the previously provided feedback, the lack of appropriate gear for testing (e.g., no magic defense for a dungeon with heavy elemental damage, under-leveled weapon skills, and armor limitations) severely hindered the ability to fully engage with the content. This created a situation where some players felt underprepared and unable to effectively test the content.

4. PvP Dynamics in the Dungeon:
There were instances where players flagged for PvP engaged in combat within the dungeon, adding another layer of difficulty and unpredictability. For guilds or groups focusing on PvE progression, this dynamic was disruptive and detracted from the cooperative experience. While PvP in dungeons can create exciting opportunities for emergent gameplay, its presence in this particular test felt misaligned with the objectives of assessing environmental hazards and mob balance.

Suggestions for Improvement:

Consider adjusting mob damage mechanics, especially for non-boss mobs, to reduce the frequency of one-shot scenarios (if this is to remain content for L25-35ish).
If possible, provide more appropriate gear for testing to ensure players can experience the content as intended along with weapon skill points.
Evaluate the impact of PvP in open-air dungeons and consider separating PvP and PvE objectives to allow for more focused gameplay. Or don't. It's whatever.
Enhance party visibility (and enemy attack visibility) and tools for coordination, especially in chaotic raid environments.

By addressing these points, the overall experience of open-air dungeons could be significantly improved, providing a more balanced and enjoyable experience for all playstyles.

Frosty_Thundertrod

I tried it but my screen was flooded with so many over the top spell effect I could not see a thing so I went back to mess around with the new merchant

Kornice

I was able to get in and was invited to a raid pretty easily. Everything ran really smooth even with probably 3, maybe more full raiding parties fighting side by side. Even with that many people the enemies took several minutes to bring down. Very tanky. It was hard to tell if we could pull just one or two at a time since there was so many people pulling everything at the same time. The rangers kinda got the shaft today because we couldn't get a bow of any sort so I was using the starter bow. Which also made PVP a no-go. Then I died to lava, so I gues the environment hazards are deadly. My fault though. Then the game took me back to the starter emberspring instead of the last one I used, joeva. The one at the forge didn't work. I can't bear to make that run again so I logged out. It was fun and I wish I could have played more of it. Having proper weapons and ideally weapon xp as well would help get a better feel for the dungeon.

Still having fun and enjoying the game.

spartago

looked good so far, as for ungeared unskilled approaches.
got hit by some lavawall (or something like that) that wiped our raid, which looked fun but i have no idea where it came from and what triggered it because it only happend once there.

i just lost my cursor several times in all the people spells and mobs

phalron

Boss "Bellowsmasher" seems to be a bit too powerful. Charge ability wiping out entire raids with one cast.

Other mobs it's hard to say, as there are roughly 100 people here hitting.

If this is intended as a raid then it seems it may need a boost in power (since we're all in just Iron gear). Spawn time and density feel good for a raid, as we're clearing just fast enough to progress but are quickly seeing respawns behind us pretty quick.

If it's for a 8 man group, probably a bit too difficult. Time to kill would be much too long and there would be constant respawns, preventing progression.

Currently you can mount and ride ON TOP of the lava and take no damage. It's impressive that a horse can do this, but I do not believe it's intended.

I did run through on a horse in some deep parts (horse lava walking in combination with low grav on Bard allowed me to access this). Enemies seemed to be spaced out well with some areas showing greater difficulty due to proximity.

Nytshaed

Environment was good except that you could ride on the Lava - not standing you got hit for about half health and dead - but fine mounted.

Bought a ring from someone and equipped it. Perfect.

Saw tons of freeholds "already purchased" - but none with anyone even trying to do anything with them - will be much better when it is an auction that folks have to commit and win, but nice to see them implemented.

DEAR GOD PLEASE LET US RESIZE THE CURSOR!! that tiny arrow on decent resolution is seriously unkind.

medicaid

If the goal is to test this dungeon can u just set up atleast 2 worlds tommorrow (to help with overcrowding)

Would also need some gear, as someone above stated you could only purchase half a kit, and most of which isn't what ur class needs, to do this ull need to lvl up multiple towns or just find some other way to hand out different gear sets

And also don't do this with 1 - 2 hours of testing time, that's gonna rush everyone there and again flood it.

As far as this test goes, my time was spent rezing other players and running for my life, then running back for 15 min after I inevitably died.

MaliciousTriton

The environmental hazards were pretty good from what I've seen; I've only gotten to the bridge-lava puzzle. They were adequately powerful, but were not impossible to avoid. It's good that they don't instantly one-shot you, so you have time to react and recover from any bad positioning.
Also, I really liked how there were multiple paths that different parties can take, especially with some of the "skips" that can be done with movement abilities, whether the skips are intentional or not.

Ok, that's that. Onto the monsters:

To preface this, a lot of the balancing feedback is going to be skewed simply because of the limited (and to be frank, horrible) vendor gear.
From where monster damage is right now, in no way can a party-- or even a full raid-- complete the dungeon with only vendor gear; I estimated there were at least 4 full raids' worth of people fighting in a single area, and even then it was still a struggle.
Even if each class got their appropriately leveled vendor gear, I do not think the stats offered by said gear make any sort of difference. However, the mechanics of the monsters themselves were engaging, especially those of Bellowsmasher. Bottom line: the monsters were way too difficult (in terms of both damage & time-to-kill) given the gear available to us.
To end it on a positive note, the monster density and respawn time definitely made the Forge feel like a great dungeon. The aesthetics of the environment and the monsters are top-notch!!

Razelthethird

Having been on the ptr and these other test realms i have a couple of suggestions.

Instead of testers waiting for a GM to come along to give you a boost, money, gear, or have to stand in a line for any of said things. Why not create a vendor in the starting area with up to lvl 20 gear. As soon as ya log in you get boosted automatically to the appropriate level for whatever testing will be conducted. Also in your inventory you should be given the amount of gold youll need for testing / buying appropriate level gear from a vendor (in the starting area) as soon as you log in..... It would save a lot of time, frustration and confusion. One shouldn't have to run all the way to another node to buy gear and run back just for testing purposes given a limited amount of time. Also add a damn Mount to the vendor so you don't have to do the quest over and over and over for every test.
.
Also, instead of wiping characters on test realms.... leave them so you don't have to go thru all of this craziness repeatedly.

also, while i should know the answer to this, i don't. I will have to assume....... that at some point there will be multiple starting areas (like lionhold) based on your race, so you don't have 10 k people all logging into the same spot.

additionally if you want people to test multiple things or areas.... If you teleport a bunch of people to one area, please have the decency to teleport them back to lionhold or to the next area you want tested. i.e. don't teleport us to the desert and then say, go across the entire map to test this other thing, given there is a short amount of time for testing. This stuff is annoying......... please use some common sense, otherwise people wont want to participate in testing and you'll end up with a dead PTR at best.

vanderkeek

hello good ! We are not glorious testers, we are glorious players in your alpha test. For subsequent tests, teleports, gear, etc., try to do it well, try to first fix the events that have been buggy for months, the populations literally DELETED, otherwise you will have DEAD tests. You're going to have to hire glorious testers when you don't have glorious players for testing.. In short, we are not testers, and if you want us to be, give us the necessary weapons and facilities to help you do your job. Thank you for your constant best and good day!

Idhalar AlBaiesh

Hello!
-The dungeon looks pretty cool, the environmental hazards feel manageable and ok (minus some bugs) It's nice to start seeing some puzzles.

-About the mobs we can't really say, we didn't have the gear to go there. 3 lvl 20 heavy armor pieces, lvl 20 spellbook and lvl 10 +9 magic greatsword from the shop are not the gear that a mage should be wearing to that dungeon. Until I can do the dungeon with appropriate gear and a good party I can't form an opinion about this topic.

Thorbis_Ironguard

### Feedback Summary on Befallen Forge Dungeon Testing

#### Environmental Hazards
- **Strengths**: The hazards create a dynamic environment, requiring players to be mindful of movement. Players appreciated the difficulty balance for hazards (e.g., not one-shotting) but noted some inconsistencies, such as lava dealing no damage when mounted.
- **Issues**:
- Lava damage inconsistency (safe on mounts but deadly on foot) breaks immersion and affects hazard credibility.
- Lack of visibility due to spell effects and overcrowding made hazards hard to navigate, reducing their intended impact.
- **Suggestions**: Fix lava mechanics for consistency, improve visual clarity in crowded areas, and consider scalability to address overcrowding.

#### Mob Difficulty, Time-to-Kill, and Density
- **Strengths**:
- Mobs feel appropriately challenging for a raid setup with clear potential for requiring team coordination (e.g., CC and interrupts).
- Density and respawn rates are well-tuned to maintain engagement without overwhelming players in a well-geared raid group.
- **Issues**:
- Overly punishing mechanics (e.g., one-shot abilities like the magma monster's jump slam and Bellowsmasher's charge) are not suited for base gear.
- Time-to-kill and difficulty felt excessive for vendor gear, requiring multiple raids to progress effectively.
- **Suggestions**:
- Adjust mob damage output, especially one-shot mechanics, to align with gear provided for testing.
- Improve gear distribution and accessibility to match content difficulty (e.g., level-appropriate armor, weapons, and magic resistance items).

#### Gear and Test Setup
- **Strengths**: The dungeon design seems well-suited for coordinated, well-geared groups.
- **Issues**:
- Lack of appropriate gear (e.g., level 20 items, magic resistance, weapon variety) and experience progression for weapon skills hindered meaningful testing.
- Overcrowded testing conditions made it difficult to assess individual contributions and performance.
- **Suggestions**:
- Provide pre-equipped, level-appropriate gear and weapon experience for all classes.
- Implement vendors with full gear sets near the dungeon entry.
- Expand test windows and instances to reduce player overcrowding.

#### Raid Experience and Party Tools
- **Strengths**: The raid felt engaging with room for strategy, and aesthetics were widely praised.
- **Issues**:
- Chaotic gameplay due to lack of clear party visibility tools (e.g., party members blending into the crowd).
- PvP in the open-air dungeon added unpredictability and disrupted PvE progression for some.
- **Suggestions**:
- Improve UI and tools to distinguish party members in raids.
- Consider PvP mitigation options for testing phases to reduce player frustration.

#### Overall Recommendations
1. **Gear Improvements**:
- Ensure players have gear that matches the intended dungeon difficulty, including magic resistance.
- Provide weapon XP to test level-appropriate skills.

2. **Dungeon Adjustments**:
- Tune down non-boss mob damage slightly to prevent one-shots for base-geared players.
- Make environmental hazards impactful but fair and consistent.

3. **Test Environment**:
- Increase test server capacity or dungeon instances to reduce overcrowding.
- Implement clearer player tools for raid organization and hazard visibility.

4. **Feedback Integration**:
- Use feedback to balance between challenge and accessibility, ensuring players can test the content without excessive frustration.

lordbret

Feedback on Environmental Hazards, Mob Design, and Dungeon Dynamics

1. Environmental Hazards:
Dungeon looked and felt amazing, with some occasion bugs (like less mounted damage in lava). PvP gankers (of which there were several rounds of) detracted from the enjoyment and overall fun of the dungeon and made it difficult to engage fully with the PvE content. Seen similar issues with event like the Titan Circle being overrun by red players, this never feels fun and should be addressed. Lava damage as seen by me felt appropriate.

2. Mob Difficulty, Time-to-Kill, and Density:
Mob Difficulty: Mobs were going down fast and were fun to kill. There was more people there than a usual raid group would have though, so some results of that were - mobs dying very fast, or too many mobs being pulled into battle and a full group or two dying. The resulting spawn very FAR AWAY due to a bugged Emberspring made most people quit for the night.
Time-to-Kill and Density: The TTK (time-to-kill) felt GREAT for most mobs, and their density allowed raid groups to engage in dynamic and exciting ways.
* * * Boss "Bellowsmasher" seems to be AMAZING. Watching his charge ability wiping out entire raids with one cast was one of the most exciting and memorable parts of the raid.

3. Gear Disparities and Testing Setup:
I wont repeat this too much, but you need to handout better gear to your paying testers. You should dress them in whatever gear you expect them to have going into these events......

4. PvP Dynamics in the Dungeon:
As usual with AoC so far "PVP" took place when a massive group of players flagged red, came in DURING or JUST after a large and exhausting fight. This is not fun, and it's frequency is increasing, the Minotaur event at the Titan Circle sees similar attacks. Dynamic and naturally occurring PVP is a fun and exciting concept, but these kinds of predatory attacks are very draining and exhausting to people who are not 100% "locked in" and actively looking for PVP.

Suggestions for Improvement:
1) If possible, provide more appropriate gear for testing to ensure players can experience the content as intended along with weapon skill points. (whatever gear you would expect a level 25 player to wear in a raid)
2) Evaluate the impact of "Red" PVP groups and consider separating PvP and PvE objectives to allow for more focused gameplay. Something as simple as auto flagging (for those who may not even know of alt+f, or were afk) if attacked by a red, would be a GOOD start. This type of PVP feels more akin to griefing than any type of honorable and fun PVP.
3)This game is not made with the solo player in mind, and that should be the case in a raid, but my cleric felt like he did not have nearly enough heals to help my team, which as a designated healing class felt kind of bad, and with many players of the team going down at once, the 30 second timer on resurrect felt harsh. Amplified by the fact it was either get resurrected, or enjoy a 20 minute walk back to the mine...

Its_Me

I had plans last night and missed this but looking over this thread, it is difficult to follow as players are being asked to rate how the hazards, difficulty, mob density and length of time to kill mobs felt when using a level 25 character with level 10 weapons?

Is this a level 10 or 25 dungeon?

I ask because I would think that using a level 25 character with level 10 weapons would skew the data being requested either way.

If this is a dungeon that is supposed to be accessed by level 10 raids, wouldn't the boost to 25 with all the extra skill points impact how the hazards, difficulty and length of time to to kill mobs felt to players?

Likewise, if this is a 25 dungeon that is supposed to be accessed by level 25 players, wouldn't the entire raid having level 10 weapons impact how the hazards, difficulty and length of time to to kill mobs felt and taint the feedback?

In past tests where they boosted and kept the level 10 weapons, they neglected to allow weapon skill points which makes a huge difference so hopefully that was fixed for this test.

My point.... Reliable feedback = reliable test parameters. If you want a level 10 dungeon tested for how it feels for difficulty, provide a level 10 boost, armor, weapon and weapon stat points equivalent to the boosted level, same with boosts to 25.

Taow

Consider disabling mounting in the dungeon. If you are a mount it takes lava damage first. If you have a bunch of mounts you can use this to bypass hazards.

In addition, please enable the wellspring prior to testing. We can get a lot more done if we aren't running all the way from town for much of the testing.

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