Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Artisan system feedback, the pacing
eikkuu
Member, Alpha Two
in Artisanship
In general I love the system and the depth that it has and that there is no randomness. It is grindy in nature, especially the crafting part but I like that. It feels rewarding once you have put the effort.
BUT the pacing feels off currently, yeah and I know that we are missing a lot of things which make this better, but in the current iteration leveling the gathering is fast and even if player leveling feels grindy its much faster than leveling crafting. And on top of this the node progression is gatekeeping the progression. First you need upgraded workbench to make better tools that gatherers can actually gather tier 2 resources and then you need upgraded processing and crafting workbenches to craft the materials and because of the interlinkage between different artisan skills, you need to have almost everything build before you can craft level 10+ items. Once you actually get there players are already lvl 20+ and you are again behind and probably once you get lvl20 there players are already max level. Crafting then becomes relevant at the current end game.
Also related to node progression. In beginning there is a lot mayors who dont know what they are doing, which might further slowdown the artisan skill progression.
Also in the current iteration while crafters can craft best gear in the game, some mobs are dropping a lot of gear. There is also crafting components and recipes but amount of good quality gear is dropped there's less need for crafted gear. And I dont say that there shouldnt be gear drops but it just need to be balanced against crafted gear.
Couple things came to my mind which could help early crafting:
Make sub tiers for crafted gear. Example You have Tier 2.1 which requires maybe only metal working, its better than tier 1 but not as good as Tier 2.2 which would require metal working + tailoring, and then there could metal working + tailoring + leatherworking etc. This way when the node levels you can already craft next Tier of items even though you cannot make "best of that tier" because you are missing those interlinkages between other artisan skills
Level up crafting recipes (I know that they have talked about this) that they can become next tier. So not only by adding the quality but once you are lets say Apprentice level weaponsmith and you have crafted a lot of swords you can make Tier 2 version of the Tier 1 weapon.
I dont have any one silver bullet to fix this pacing issue but I would like to get it balanced somehow which would make crafters already more relevant early that those who are investing into it, feels rewarded.
tldr: pacing feels off related to player levels and node progression and I would like to see that improved somehow
BUT the pacing feels off currently, yeah and I know that we are missing a lot of things which make this better, but in the current iteration leveling the gathering is fast and even if player leveling feels grindy its much faster than leveling crafting. And on top of this the node progression is gatekeeping the progression. First you need upgraded workbench to make better tools that gatherers can actually gather tier 2 resources and then you need upgraded processing and crafting workbenches to craft the materials and because of the interlinkage between different artisan skills, you need to have almost everything build before you can craft level 10+ items. Once you actually get there players are already lvl 20+ and you are again behind and probably once you get lvl20 there players are already max level. Crafting then becomes relevant at the current end game.
Also related to node progression. In beginning there is a lot mayors who dont know what they are doing, which might further slowdown the artisan skill progression.
Also in the current iteration while crafters can craft best gear in the game, some mobs are dropping a lot of gear. There is also crafting components and recipes but amount of good quality gear is dropped there's less need for crafted gear. And I dont say that there shouldnt be gear drops but it just need to be balanced against crafted gear.
Couple things came to my mind which could help early crafting:
Make sub tiers for crafted gear. Example You have Tier 2.1 which requires maybe only metal working, its better than tier 1 but not as good as Tier 2.2 which would require metal working + tailoring, and then there could metal working + tailoring + leatherworking etc. This way when the node levels you can already craft next Tier of items even though you cannot make "best of that tier" because you are missing those interlinkages between other artisan skills
Level up crafting recipes (I know that they have talked about this) that they can become next tier. So not only by adding the quality but once you are lets say Apprentice level weaponsmith and you have crafted a lot of swords you can make Tier 2 version of the Tier 1 weapon.
I dont have any one silver bullet to fix this pacing issue but I would like to get it balanced somehow which would make crafters already more relevant early that those who are investing into it, feels rewarded.
tldr: pacing feels off related to player levels and node progression and I would like to see that improved somehow
3
Comments
Gatherers need to be paid in processed goods directly when they drop off raw material. The processor then gets paid in process goods, when they fuel the processing, less that paid to the gatherer. The crafter then crafts the end product and is sells excess to the vendor that supplies all the NPC vendors. If no one crafts gear, there is no vendor gear at the nodes. The buy/sell prices at the vendor, reflect how much gear is there.
So if I make a riding bear, it costs me 75s. If there are no riding bears at the riding vendor, I can sell it to the vendor for 75s and make my processing fee back (not the fuel). That NPC sells it for 100s. The next riding bear I make, still costs me 75s to produce, but I can sell it to the vendor for only 70s, and the price the vendor sells it at drops to 95s. The vendor will only buy riding bears until the price drops to 80s. At that point you either have to stop making bears, just destroy them, or take them to a vendor at a different node. If I have a lot of them, I will need a caravan.
I also think that hunters should just be able to drop off untrained bears at the animal husbandry trainer (if it isn't overstocked) and get paid a % of the mount price. Any trainer can then buy that untrained bear at a % of the mount price. That will be useful for rarer mounts, that require higher training skills.
If they want a working economy they have to implement it that way. They cant "magic" it into existence, it needs to work from the ground up. I think (hope) this is what Intrepid intend to do. I am not a genius and it occurred to me that this is the only "right" way to implement an economy, so I'm sure they will arrive there pretty quickly.
For mining the limiting factor is the quantity of tier 2 nodes over tier 1, or perhaps they are tier 2 and tier 3. Not sure if tier 1 nodes were replaced with tier 2 nodes. And of course for metalworkers the lack of metal nodes in comparison to stone. I am sure the dwarves and Tulnar are hoarding the metals.
Scarcity driven by node building perhaps exacerbates things. And no markets hurts the artisans a lot, with the current work around being player to player trades.
I feel bad for the Animal Husbandry folks given the expense to advance the process. Perhaps we can start with training pets before jumping into mounts. Or take out what is essentially a free mount quest so that there is more demand for their services.
If NPCs are doing it then it's not a player driven economy. This is hells to the no.
Player market stalls are going in Phase 2, players can set it up if they want to buy and sell things like that.
It might solve the problem actually
I don't think the suggestion was just 'the NPC always gives the money', it sounded more like 'The NPC holds a specific number of these items in stock and then doesn't buy more when that stock is full'. Players would still have to negotiate and put up stalls, especially if they want to sell higher or give specific discounts.
This sort of thing doesn't have much negative effect, if anything it's helpful in tracking supply and demand changes at a glance, in a game without a full Auction House, which is useful for both players and Devs, to some extent.
In my experience, most people aren't like me when it comes to this, they don't want to be 'tracking and spending time figuring out what everyone else is doing', and in a game with limited Auction House, that eats up a lot of time (or gets API-botted or even direct-botted honestly).
The Econ team probably has systems that let them check gluts easily, but discerning a glut from a hoard can be hard. It's not vital or anything, but stalls may work quite similarly to this anyway and end up 'seeming like it's an NPC running it', so might as well do it this way and prevent the various weird 'abuses' that come up when the tax rates change.