Noaani wrote: » As far as game streamers who stream as a job, Narc is potentially the smartest. His recent comments are designed specifically so that he has a reason to not play Ashes once it goes live, without his viewer base complaining. He is the first streamer to realize that there will not be any money in streaming Ashes, so he crested an exit for himself.
Noaani wrote: » Laetitian wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Conflict over trash mobs is not meaningful conflict. Fighting over world bossed, Node wars, best is slot rare crafting resources, relics. Now that's meaningful conflict. When you have walked away and taken something good you can point at. There cannot be an objective standard for "meaningful conflict." At best, it’s an aspirational concept. When I fight someone over a copper node, it feels meaningful enough to me. More importantly, I’m having way more fun now. That’s what Ashes is all about: "Vhaeyne's fun." If fighting over basic gameplay is considered meaningful, that will turn most players away. You may enjoy that fight over basic gameplay, but you will stop enjoying that fight when the people you would have fought over have gone off to play another game. This is what I don't get about so many people thst want Ashes to have these niche systems. Ashes needs masses of players to be the game these people want it to be more than it needs these niche systems. So how much PvP is justified for a mainstream-adequate PvX system? Caravans plus one boss a week with PvP competition, and one siege and war a month, rest neatly separated? That isn't a question I would want to answer. I can say when something is completely off (such as needing to fight over basic content), but I wouldn't want to attempt to define the correct answer.
Laetitian wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Conflict over trash mobs is not meaningful conflict. Fighting over world bossed, Node wars, best is slot rare crafting resources, relics. Now that's meaningful conflict. When you have walked away and taken something good you can point at. There cannot be an objective standard for "meaningful conflict." At best, it’s an aspirational concept. When I fight someone over a copper node, it feels meaningful enough to me. More importantly, I’m having way more fun now. That’s what Ashes is all about: "Vhaeyne's fun." If fighting over basic gameplay is considered meaningful, that will turn most players away. You may enjoy that fight over basic gameplay, but you will stop enjoying that fight when the people you would have fought over have gone off to play another game. This is what I don't get about so many people thst want Ashes to have these niche systems. Ashes needs masses of players to be the game these people want it to be more than it needs these niche systems. So how much PvP is justified for a mainstream-adequate PvX system? Caravans plus one boss a week with PvP competition, and one siege and war a month, rest neatly separated?
Noaani wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Conflict over trash mobs is not meaningful conflict. Fighting over world bossed, Node wars, best is slot rare crafting resources, relics. Now that's meaningful conflict. When you have walked away and taken something good you can point at. There cannot be an objective standard for "meaningful conflict." At best, it’s an aspirational concept. When I fight someone over a copper node, it feels meaningful enough to me. More importantly, I’m having way more fun now. That’s what Ashes is all about: "Vhaeyne's fun." If fighting over basic gameplay is considered meaningful, that will turn most players away. You may enjoy that fight over basic gameplay, but you will stop enjoying that fight when the people you would have fought over have gone off to play another game. This is what I don't get about so many people thst want Ashes to have these niche systems. Ashes needs masses of players to be the game these people want it to be more than it needs these niche systems.
Vhaeyne wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Conflict over trash mobs is not meaningful conflict. Fighting over world bossed, Node wars, best is slot rare crafting resources, relics. Now that's meaningful conflict. When you have walked away and taken something good you can point at. There cannot be an objective standard for "meaningful conflict." At best, it’s an aspirational concept. When I fight someone over a copper node, it feels meaningful enough to me. More importantly, I’m having way more fun now. That’s what Ashes is all about: "Vhaeyne's fun."
nanfoodle wrote: » Conflict over trash mobs is not meaningful conflict. Fighting over world bossed, Node wars, best is slot rare crafting resources, relics. Now that's meaningful conflict. When you have walked away and taken something good you can point at.
Sathrago wrote: » holy moly i just watched narcs video, and I havent played phase 2 past a few levels of mage as I wanted to wait for more systems... But to find out that the desert is completely barren and we still dont have the grid server system in for testing... like what are we even doing right now? testing a bunch of placeholder systems that are also tuned to be extremely grindy and take hours upon hours to even start testing? If its a test treat us like testers and give us the proper setup to test these things. if we are gamers playing a game then give us content. This weird ass limbo between being a player and a tester needs to stop.
Its_Me wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » holy moly i just watched narcs video, and I havent played phase 2 past a few levels of mage as I wanted to wait for more systems... But to find out that the desert is completely barren and we still dont have the grid server system in for testing... like what are we even doing right now? testing a bunch of placeholder systems that are also tuned to be extremely grindy and take hours upon hours to even start testing? If its a test treat us like testers and give us the proper setup to test these things. if we are gamers playing a game then give us content. This weird ass limbo between being a player and a tester needs to stop. I always shake my head when I see posts like this, people that see/watch one thing and treat it gospel and then run around spewing the misinformation to others. 🤦♀️The desert is not baren, you simply watched a disgruntled streamer that was not catered to by the Devs that decided to start a smear campaign on his way out while capitalizing on the drama with a subathon. For some enlightenment, check out this video where a more unbiased (and much more popular) streamer literally sheds light on Narc's lies and intentional misleading. The streamer is Asmon and he conducts interviews with both Narc, Steven and another popular stream, Thor, who actually has hundreds of hours in this test and has spent time in the desert. Have you even been to the desert or is drinking the Kool-Aid enough for you? I spent time there yesterday and the fora and fauna is gorgeous and I spent quite a bit of time farming ore and crystal, fighting mobs and visiting active nodes to use storage and the market ect.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtKFY-4BDj8&t=10199s
Noaani wrote: » As far as game streamers who stream as a job, Narc is potentially the smartest.
Sathrago wrote: » if you read my post you would know whether I went to the desert. Also, my mind has been changed as new evidence came out. At the time I didn't see a reason for narc to flat out lie about what he was showing and I still agree with the underlying cause of this entire issue as detailed in the post above yours. Narc was wrong to make that video. That does not mean that the cause of this is not there.
Its_Me wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » if you read my post you would know whether I went to the desert. Also, my mind has been changed as new evidence came out. At the time I didn't see a reason for narc to flat out lie about what he was showing and I still agree with the underlying cause of this entire issue as detailed in the post above yours. Narc was wrong to make that video. That does not mean that the cause of this is not there. That was my point, you have not even been to the desert and came here to spread the propaganda that the desert is baren. Someone attempted to explain to you how this was inaccurate and you refused to see the point and focus on the desert still being baren (which it is not) stating: 'this is not a good thing'. Narc was not wrong to make the video, he was wrong for lying and misleading in the video. Claiming Steven stated that he should quit his job was a lie, stating Steven said that he and his followers had mental issues was a lie. The guy stooped to a new level of low during his exit tantrum.
Sathrago wrote: » So in conclusion I would like more communication when big features like this are going to come out in states that do not represent the original showcase of said features. Tell us why it has to be rolled out in pieces like the freehold. Tell us why the desert needed to release with nothing but mobs and nodes pasted in it for testing purposes. You don't need to give dates for when the rest comes out, just explain why it needs to be torn apart and put back together as you introduce it into phase 2. People need to hear this reasoning otherwise they will look back at those previous showcases and future ones with extreme skepticism.
Sathrago wrote: » Let me be clear when I say Narc completely lit the dumpster on fire here, and his use of "doesn't exist" was an absolutely idiotic way to argue this out. He was all over the place and I do not support what he did. With that being said, hear me out. The whole drama stirred up by narc this time comes from a feeling of being mislead. This happened because the communication around showcases was, at least in my mind, portraying the showcase as the current progress of the development for the game. The 2 main problem children of this are the desert and the freehold system. We were shown the showcases 2 years ago, and "freeholds/desert" are slated for the start of phase 2. They were given to us TESTERS (I really need to emphasize TESTERS here. its different from a new patch hitting a live game.) in a state that didn't live up to the expectations that their showcases set as the bare minimum with a 2 year gap of seemingly no development put into these features. That explains why people are mad, but the root fault is intrepid not being clear that these specific things were not as far a long as the showcases, we got to hear reasoning finally from a pissed off Steven last night, but that stuff should have been said to the people that are paying to test the alpha for intrepid. Its an open development game and this sort of thing seems reasonable and needed to be articulated. The showcases over the years have never been described as "vertical slices" or "proof of concept". It was always, "hey this is what we have now, tell us what you like and dislike." I am para-phrasing here. Now I know the other side of this issue thinks its not a big deal and people are too emotional, yeah well you just have a different thinking process and you cannot deny what I have laid out. There are too many people that took those showcases as "current progress" when they were shown and this DID influence their decision to purchase a key as well as singing the praises of Intrepid's seemingly rapid-fire development. So in conclusion I would like more communication when big features like this are going to come out in states that do not represent the original showcase of said features. Tell us why it has to be rolled out in pieces like the freehold. Tell us why the desert needed to release with nothing but mobs and nodes pasted in it for testing purposes. You don't need to give dates for when the rest comes out, just explain why it needs to be torn apart and put back together as you introduce it into phase 2. People need to hear this reasoning otherwise they will look back at those previous showcases and future ones with extreme skepticism.
Sathrago wrote: » Its_Me wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » if you read my post you would know whether I went to the desert. Also, my mind has been changed as new evidence came out. At the time I didn't see a reason for narc to flat out lie about what he was showing and I still agree with the underlying cause of this entire issue as detailed in the post above yours. Narc was wrong to make that video. That does not mean that the cause of this is not there. That was my point, you have not even been to the desert and came here to spread the propaganda that the desert is baren. Someone attempted to explain to you how this was inaccurate and you refused to see the point and focus on the desert still being baren (which it is not) stating: 'this is not a good thing'. Narc was not wrong to make the video, he was wrong for lying and misleading in the video. Claiming Steven stated that he should quit his job was a lie, stating Steven said that he and his followers had mental issues was a lie. The guy stooped to a new level of low during his exit tantrum. You are drawing away from the core issue that started this all. The important part is the bad communication on intrepids side. I and many others wouldn't have had anything to react to if narc was not, and those around him, under the impression that they were mislead by intrepids communication. Narc did not handle this well at all. it was a dumpster fire and he couldn't argue the point that needed to be argued when speaking to asmongold. I don't know what's wrong with narc and why he acted this way. He has been a good source of reliable information on ashes since he started and to act like its my fault for trusting that take when the underlying issue we agreed on exists, is just silly. But you are going to keep harping on the reactions to the reaction right? Or will you actually engage with the core issue that started everything? The milk is spilt and at this point cleaned up. We should figure out who tipped it in the first place and how to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Otr wrote: » Doesn't mean all of the things we list as part of those phases are going to be at the start of the phase. It's what we intend to launch during the phase.[3] – Steven Sharif [3] is a reference to a livestream from November 27, 2024
Its_Me wrote: » I do agree with the suggestion that Narc is using the negative drama to gather viewers and subs (numbers were giving on viewers once drama started) and will also capitalize down the road again with his 'Return to Ashes tour'
Its_Me wrote: » What are you wanting in the desert that is not there yet, are you wanting the statue that Narc told you should be there? It is not baren as narc lied about, there are trees (albeit they are bugged at the moment), cacti, grass, plenty of mobs to kill, ore to mine, gems to mine, functioning nodes you can go to for storage, auction ect.
Teyloune wrote: » Look, this is an alpha - a real alpha, not some polished marketing build. It's not about delivering tons of content yet; it's about testing systems, fixing bugs, and gathering feedback to build the foundation for the full game. When you say, "Where’s all the content?" it’s like asking why a house under construction doesn’t have furniture yet. The devs are laying bricks and installing plumbing, not decorating. If content is your main draw, it’s okay to step back and wait for later stages when they’re further along. But right now, the focus is progress, not perfection. The devs are putting in the work; they’re not holding back some magical vault of content. This is just the reality of game development.
