We will be on the grindier side of what probably most modern MMO players are accustomed to; and that is a bit of a call back to a more old school approach, of which you will find many callbacks in the design for Ashes. – Steven Sharif
Vhaeyne wrote: » Two things to consider: 1. Focusing on the journey and not the destination may be helpful with this frustration. You can get crafted gear. Some are saying its too easy. Like legendary does not feel legendary because its too easy to get. 2. Grinding will probably be the main way to level forever. We will be on the grindier side of what probably most modern MMO players are accustomed to; and that is a bit of a call back to a more old school approach, of which you will find many callbacks in the design for Ashes. – Steven Sharif Personally, I have had some much fun since the 20th that I have not really noticed the grind. I am level 24 with four journeymen skills and it all feels like it was too quick. I understand your frustrations, but to people like me the game will be unplayable if it gets too easy. I want to live in this world for the long haul and I can't do that if I finish everything.
Vhaeyne wrote: » Grinding will probably be the main way to level forever. We will be on the grindier side of what probably most modern MMO players are accustomed to; and that is a bit of a call back to a more old school approach, of which you will find many callbacks in the design for Ashes. – Steven Sharif Personally, I have had some much fun since the 20th that I have not really noticed the grind. I am level 24 with four journeymen skills and it all feels like it was too quick. I understand your frustrations, but to people like me the game will be unplayable if it gets too easy. I want to live in this world for the long haul and I can't do that if I finish everything.
RonDog98 wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Grinding will probably be the main way to level forever. We will be on the grindier side of what probably most modern MMO players are accustomed to; and that is a bit of a call back to a more old school approach, of which you will find many callbacks in the design for Ashes. – Steven Sharif Personally, I have had some much fun since the 20th that I have not really noticed the grind. I am level 24 with four journeymen skills and it all feels like it was too quick. I understand your frustrations, but to people like me the game will be unplayable if it gets too easy. I want to live in this world for the long haul and I can't do that if I finish everything. Has intrepid not said they plan to include quests for solo play? I imagine a good portion of population with switch over to questing at least 50% of the time, and that’s even if grinding is still the “optimal” way. It also seems you are on the other side of the opinions with crafting and gathering. From what I’ve read, most of the feedback shows a disdain for the current implementation and pace of progression. I’m all the journey, but right now it is about the journey and it seems most people are unhappy with it.
Azherae wrote: » RonDog98 wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Grinding will probably be the main way to level forever. We will be on the grindier side of what probably most modern MMO players are accustomed to; and that is a bit of a call back to a more old school approach, of which you will find many callbacks in the design for Ashes. – Steven Sharif Personally, I have had some much fun since the 20th that I have not really noticed the grind. I am level 24 with four journeymen skills and it all feels like it was too quick. I understand your frustrations, but to people like me the game will be unplayable if it gets too easy. I want to live in this world for the long haul and I can't do that if I finish everything. Has intrepid not said they plan to include quests for solo play? I imagine a good portion of population with switch over to questing at least 50% of the time, and that’s even if grinding is still the “optimal” way. It also seems you are on the other side of the opinions with crafting and gathering. From what I’ve read, most of the feedback shows a disdain for the current implementation and pace of progression. I’m all the journey, but right now it is about the journey and it seems most people are unhappy with it. The issues with Artisanship largely aren't about the fact that 'it is a journey' at the moment, it's simply that the current implementation of Artisanship/Itemization is just bad/placeholder. I really hope that we as a community don't let this specific 'concept' turn into the usual binary perception that ruins MMOs. An unpleasant system causes some players to get frustrated, and some other players who like the challenges to get defensive, until some devs just 'flip a coin as to who to make happy' by either doubling down or abandoning the system. When it was just the poor implementation that caused such extreme reactions in the first place. I really want a good Artisanship system, let's please not make this about 'you guys just want convenience, you should learn to enjoy the journey!' vs 'This sucks and is boring/unplayable, make it easier and faster!' Can we just agree that there's a better middle ground and Intrepid just hasn't given it to us yet?
nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » RonDog98 wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Grinding will probably be the main way to level forever. We will be on the grindier side of what probably most modern MMO players are accustomed to; and that is a bit of a call back to a more old school approach, of which you will find many callbacks in the design for Ashes. – Steven Sharif Personally, I have had some much fun since the 20th that I have not really noticed the grind. I am level 24 with four journeymen skills and it all feels like it was too quick. I understand your frustrations, but to people like me the game will be unplayable if it gets too easy. I want to live in this world for the long haul and I can't do that if I finish everything. Has intrepid not said they plan to include quests for solo play? I imagine a good portion of population with switch over to questing at least 50% of the time, and that’s even if grinding is still the “optimal” way. It also seems you are on the other side of the opinions with crafting and gathering. From what I’ve read, most of the feedback shows a disdain for the current implementation and pace of progression. I’m all the journey, but right now it is about the journey and it seems most people are unhappy with it. The issues with Artisanship largely aren't about the fact that 'it is a journey' at the moment, it's simply that the current implementation of Artisanship/Itemization is just bad/placeholder. I really hope that we as a community don't let this specific 'concept' turn into the usual binary perception that ruins MMOs. An unpleasant system causes some players to get frustrated, and some other players who like the challenges to get defensive, until some devs just 'flip a coin as to who to make happy' by either doubling down or abandoning the system. When it was just the poor implementation that caused such extreme reactions in the first place. I really want a good Artisanship system, let's please not make this about 'you guys just want convenience, you should learn to enjoy the journey!' vs 'This sucks and is boring/unplayable, make it easier and faster!' Can we just agree that there's a better middle ground and Intrepid just hasn't given it to us yet? I agree and don't. Most would agree legendary gear needs to be just that. A level 10 green bow should be about the same level of work as a level 10 green bow from a dungeon but more accessible to crafters and buyers. The balance is not about making everything easier. It's about balance. This is for two reasons. Crafters should be selling their gear to players. Two players should be relying on crafters. IMO killing mobs should be dropping crafting resource. We should be running to crafters with our loot, asking/paying crafters to make the gear with the stats they want and need. EDIT: I get we will be deconstructing later
Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » RonDog98 wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Grinding will probably be the main way to level forever. We will be on the grindier side of what probably most modern MMO players are accustomed to; and that is a bit of a call back to a more old school approach, of which you will find many callbacks in the design for Ashes. – Steven Sharif Personally, I have had some much fun since the 20th that I have not really noticed the grind. I am level 24 with four journeymen skills and it all feels like it was too quick. I understand your frustrations, but to people like me the game will be unplayable if it gets too easy. I want to live in this world for the long haul and I can't do that if I finish everything. Has intrepid not said they plan to include quests for solo play? I imagine a good portion of population with switch over to questing at least 50% of the time, and that’s even if grinding is still the “optimal” way. It also seems you are on the other side of the opinions with crafting and gathering. From what I’ve read, most of the feedback shows a disdain for the current implementation and pace of progression. I’m all the journey, but right now it is about the journey and it seems most people are unhappy with it. The issues with Artisanship largely aren't about the fact that 'it is a journey' at the moment, it's simply that the current implementation of Artisanship/Itemization is just bad/placeholder. I really hope that we as a community don't let this specific 'concept' turn into the usual binary perception that ruins MMOs. An unpleasant system causes some players to get frustrated, and some other players who like the challenges to get defensive, until some devs just 'flip a coin as to who to make happy' by either doubling down or abandoning the system. When it was just the poor implementation that caused such extreme reactions in the first place. I really want a good Artisanship system, let's please not make this about 'you guys just want convenience, you should learn to enjoy the journey!' vs 'This sucks and is boring/unplayable, make it easier and faster!' Can we just agree that there's a better middle ground and Intrepid just hasn't given it to us yet? I agree and don't. Most would agree legendary gear needs to be just that. A level 10 green bow should be about the same level of work as a level 10 green bow from a dungeon but more accessible to crafters and buyers. The balance is not about making everything easier. It's about balance. This is for two reasons. Crafters should be selling their gear to players. Two players should be relying on crafters. IMO killing mobs should be dropping crafting resource. We should be running to crafters with our loot, asking/paying crafters to make the gear with the stats they want and need. EDIT: I get we will be deconstructing later Right, but that's the middle ground I meant. Any serious Artisan from nearly any other game can look at this game and almost immediately conclude 'oh, mobs should be dropping crafting resources as a generality'. But obviously, they don't right now (again, as a generality), so nothing is working 'correctly'. Balancing is much harder when 'many' mobs drop crafting resources, so whoever is doing that balancing probably isn't ready to put their work live yet. So right now, it's not about the 'people should enjoy the journey' or 'people being unhappy with the fact that there is a journey'. The 'journey' isn't even in the game yet.
nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » RonDog98 wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Grinding will probably be the main way to level forever. We will be on the grindier side of what probably most modern MMO players are accustomed to; and that is a bit of a call back to a more old school approach, of which you will find many callbacks in the design for Ashes. – Steven Sharif Personally, I have had some much fun since the 20th that I have not really noticed the grind. I am level 24 with four journeymen skills and it all feels like it was too quick. I understand your frustrations, but to people like me the game will be unplayable if it gets too easy. I want to live in this world for the long haul and I can't do that if I finish everything. Has intrepid not said they plan to include quests for solo play? I imagine a good portion of population with switch over to questing at least 50% of the time, and that’s even if grinding is still the “optimal” way. It also seems you are on the other side of the opinions with crafting and gathering. From what I’ve read, most of the feedback shows a disdain for the current implementation and pace of progression. I’m all the journey, but right now it is about the journey and it seems most people are unhappy with it. The issues with Artisanship largely aren't about the fact that 'it is a journey' at the moment, it's simply that the current implementation of Artisanship/Itemization is just bad/placeholder. I really hope that we as a community don't let this specific 'concept' turn into the usual binary perception that ruins MMOs. An unpleasant system causes some players to get frustrated, and some other players who like the challenges to get defensive, until some devs just 'flip a coin as to who to make happy' by either doubling down or abandoning the system. When it was just the poor implementation that caused such extreme reactions in the first place. I really want a good Artisanship system, let's please not make this about 'you guys just want convenience, you should learn to enjoy the journey!' vs 'This sucks and is boring/unplayable, make it easier and faster!' Can we just agree that there's a better middle ground and Intrepid just hasn't given it to us yet? I agree and don't. Most would agree legendary gear needs to be just that. A level 10 green bow should be about the same level of work as a level 10 green bow from a dungeon but more accessible to crafters and buyers. The balance is not about making everything easier. It's about balance. This is for two reasons. Crafters should be selling their gear to players. Two players should be relying on crafters. IMO killing mobs should be dropping crafting resource. We should be running to crafters with our loot, asking/paying crafters to make the gear with the stats they want and need. EDIT: I get we will be deconstructing later Right, but that's the middle ground I meant. Any serious Artisan from nearly any other game can look at this game and almost immediately conclude 'oh, mobs should be dropping crafting resources as a generality'. But obviously, they don't right now (again, as a generality), so nothing is working 'correctly'. Balancing is much harder when 'many' mobs drop crafting resources, so whoever is doing that balancing probably isn't ready to put their work live yet. So right now, it's not about the 'people should enjoy the journey' or 'people being unhappy with the fact that there is a journey'. The 'journey' isn't even in the game yet. And yet we are told to say what's fun and not fun. This is something many are talking about but not expressing here. I have not been having this much fun in a MMO since EQ1 back in 1999. So here I am voicing this. I want to love crafting and like in said above. I was a master crafter I ESO. I have done this is every MMO I have played in 25 years of MMOing. That being said. I'm not enjoying crafting in Ashes and I have never felt that way in any MMO. Even the games I have Alpha tested.
Azherae wrote: » I agree that it's important to maybe remind Intrepid that you can 'feel the negative effects' of their currently implemented placeholder. I disagree with the title of your post, if you want to foster a positive discussion/community response
Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » RonDog98 wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Grinding will probably be the main way to level forever. We will be on the grindier side of what probably most modern MMO players are accustomed to; and that is a bit of a call back to a more old school approach, of which you will find many callbacks in the design for Ashes. – Steven Sharif Personally, I have had some much fun since the 20th that I have not really noticed the grind. I am level 24 with four journeymen skills and it all feels like it was too quick. I understand your frustrations, but to people like me the game will be unplayable if it gets too easy. I want to live in this world for the long haul and I can't do that if I finish everything. Has intrepid not said they plan to include quests for solo play? I imagine a good portion of population with switch over to questing at least 50% of the time, and that’s even if grinding is still the “optimal” way. It also seems you are on the other side of the opinions with crafting and gathering. From what I’ve read, most of the feedback shows a disdain for the current implementation and pace of progression. I’m all the journey, but right now it is about the journey and it seems most people are unhappy with it. The issues with Artisanship largely aren't about the fact that 'it is a journey' at the moment, it's simply that the current implementation of Artisanship/Itemization is just bad/placeholder. I really hope that we as a community don't let this specific 'concept' turn into the usual binary perception that ruins MMOs. An unpleasant system causes some players to get frustrated, and some other players who like the challenges to get defensive, until some devs just 'flip a coin as to who to make happy' by either doubling down or abandoning the system. When it was just the poor implementation that caused such extreme reactions in the first place. I really want a good Artisanship system, let's please not make this about 'you guys just want convenience, you should learn to enjoy the journey!' vs 'This sucks and is boring/unplayable, make it easier and faster!' Can we just agree that there's a better middle ground and Intrepid just hasn't given it to us yet? I agree and don't. Most would agree legendary gear needs to be just that. A level 10 green bow should be about the same level of work as a level 10 green bow from a dungeon but more accessible to crafters and buyers. The balance is not about making everything easier. It's about balance. This is for two reasons. Crafters should be selling their gear to players. Two players should be relying on crafters. IMO killing mobs should be dropping crafting resource. We should be running to crafters with our loot, asking/paying crafters to make the gear with the stats they want and need. EDIT: I get we will be deconstructing later Right, but that's the middle ground I meant. Any serious Artisan from nearly any other game can look at this game and almost immediately conclude 'oh, mobs should be dropping crafting resources as a generality'. But obviously, they don't right now (again, as a generality), so nothing is working 'correctly'. Balancing is much harder when 'many' mobs drop crafting resources, so whoever is doing that balancing probably isn't ready to put their work live yet. So right now, it's not about the 'people should enjoy the journey' or 'people being unhappy with the fact that there is a journey'. The 'journey' isn't even in the game yet. And yet we are told to say what's fun and not fun. This is something many are talking about but not expressing here. I have not been having this much fun in a MMO since EQ1 back in 1999. So here I am voicing this. I want to love crafting and like in said above. I was a master crafter I ESO. I have done this is every MMO I have played in 25 years of MMOing. That being said. I'm not enjoying crafting in Ashes and I have never felt that way in any MMO. Even the games I have Alpha tested. Well, going back to my first post in this thread on that note... Azherae wrote: » I agree that it's important to maybe remind Intrepid that you can 'feel the negative effects' of their currently implemented placeholder. I disagree with the title of your post, if you want to foster a positive discussion/community response
nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » RonDog98 wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Grinding will probably be the main way to level forever. We will be on the grindier side of what probably most modern MMO players are accustomed to; and that is a bit of a call back to a more old school approach, of which you will find many callbacks in the design for Ashes. – Steven Sharif Personally, I have had some much fun since the 20th that I have not really noticed the grind. I am level 24 with four journeymen skills and it all feels like it was too quick. I understand your frustrations, but to people like me the game will be unplayable if it gets too easy. I want to live in this world for the long haul and I can't do that if I finish everything. Has intrepid not said they plan to include quests for solo play? I imagine a good portion of population with switch over to questing at least 50% of the time, and that’s even if grinding is still the “optimal” way. It also seems you are on the other side of the opinions with crafting and gathering. From what I’ve read, most of the feedback shows a disdain for the current implementation and pace of progression. I’m all the journey, but right now it is about the journey and it seems most people are unhappy with it. The issues with Artisanship largely aren't about the fact that 'it is a journey' at the moment, it's simply that the current implementation of Artisanship/Itemization is just bad/placeholder. I really hope that we as a community don't let this specific 'concept' turn into the usual binary perception that ruins MMOs. An unpleasant system causes some players to get frustrated, and some other players who like the challenges to get defensive, until some devs just 'flip a coin as to who to make happy' by either doubling down or abandoning the system. When it was just the poor implementation that caused such extreme reactions in the first place. I really want a good Artisanship system, let's please not make this about 'you guys just want convenience, you should learn to enjoy the journey!' vs 'This sucks and is boring/unplayable, make it easier and faster!' Can we just agree that there's a better middle ground and Intrepid just hasn't given it to us yet? I agree and don't. Most would agree legendary gear needs to be just that. A level 10 green bow should be about the same level of work as a level 10 green bow from a dungeon but more accessible to crafters and buyers. The balance is not about making everything easier. It's about balance. This is for two reasons. Crafters should be selling their gear to players. Two players should be relying on crafters. IMO killing mobs should be dropping crafting resource. We should be running to crafters with our loot, asking/paying crafters to make the gear with the stats they want and need. EDIT: I get we will be deconstructing later Right, but that's the middle ground I meant. Any serious Artisan from nearly any other game can look at this game and almost immediately conclude 'oh, mobs should be dropping crafting resources as a generality'. But obviously, they don't right now (again, as a generality), so nothing is working 'correctly'. Balancing is much harder when 'many' mobs drop crafting resources, so whoever is doing that balancing probably isn't ready to put their work live yet. So right now, it's not about the 'people should enjoy the journey' or 'people being unhappy with the fact that there is a journey'. The 'journey' isn't even in the game yet. And yet we are told to say what's fun and not fun. This is something many are talking about but not expressing here. I have not been having this much fun in a MMO since EQ1 back in 1999. So here I am voicing this. I want to love crafting and like in said above. I was a master crafter I ESO. I have done this is every MMO I have played in 25 years of MMOing. That being said. I'm not enjoying crafting in Ashes and I have never felt that way in any MMO. Even the games I have Alpha tested. Well, going back to my first post in this thread on that note... Azherae wrote: » I agree that it's important to maybe remind Intrepid that you can 'feel the negative effects' of their currently implemented placeholder. I disagree with the title of your post, if you want to foster a positive discussion/community response I care mostly about results. Nothing I have said is negative or game bashing what I posted is 100% true. The best gear is the gear you can get. For the majority it's not crafted gear. If you are wearing one or mostly crafted gear. You are in the minority.
Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » RonDog98 wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Grinding will probably be the main way to level forever. We will be on the grindier side of what probably most modern MMO players are accustomed to; and that is a bit of a call back to a more old school approach, of which you will find many callbacks in the design for Ashes. – Steven Sharif Personally, I have had some much fun since the 20th that I have not really noticed the grind. I am level 24 with four journeymen skills and it all feels like it was too quick. I understand your frustrations, but to people like me the game will be unplayable if it gets too easy. I want to live in this world for the long haul and I can't do that if I finish everything. Has intrepid not said they plan to include quests for solo play? I imagine a good portion of population with switch over to questing at least 50% of the time, and that’s even if grinding is still the “optimal” way. It also seems you are on the other side of the opinions with crafting and gathering. From what I’ve read, most of the feedback shows a disdain for the current implementation and pace of progression. I’m all the journey, but right now it is about the journey and it seems most people are unhappy with it. The issues with Artisanship largely aren't about the fact that 'it is a journey' at the moment, it's simply that the current implementation of Artisanship/Itemization is just bad/placeholder. I really hope that we as a community don't let this specific 'concept' turn into the usual binary perception that ruins MMOs. An unpleasant system causes some players to get frustrated, and some other players who like the challenges to get defensive, until some devs just 'flip a coin as to who to make happy' by either doubling down or abandoning the system. When it was just the poor implementation that caused such extreme reactions in the first place. I really want a good Artisanship system, let's please not make this about 'you guys just want convenience, you should learn to enjoy the journey!' vs 'This sucks and is boring/unplayable, make it easier and faster!' Can we just agree that there's a better middle ground and Intrepid just hasn't given it to us yet? I agree and don't. Most would agree legendary gear needs to be just that. A level 10 green bow should be about the same level of work as a level 10 green bow from a dungeon but more accessible to crafters and buyers. The balance is not about making everything easier. It's about balance. This is for two reasons. Crafters should be selling their gear to players. Two players should be relying on crafters. IMO killing mobs should be dropping crafting resource. We should be running to crafters with our loot, asking/paying crafters to make the gear with the stats they want and need. EDIT: I get we will be deconstructing later Right, but that's the middle ground I meant. Any serious Artisan from nearly any other game can look at this game and almost immediately conclude 'oh, mobs should be dropping crafting resources as a generality'. But obviously, they don't right now (again, as a generality), so nothing is working 'correctly'. Balancing is much harder when 'many' mobs drop crafting resources, so whoever is doing that balancing probably isn't ready to put their work live yet. So right now, it's not about the 'people should enjoy the journey' or 'people being unhappy with the fact that there is a journey'. The 'journey' isn't even in the game yet. And yet we are told to say what's fun and not fun. This is something many are talking about but not expressing here. I have not been having this much fun in a MMO since EQ1 back in 1999. So here I am voicing this. I want to love crafting and like in said above. I was a master crafter I ESO. I have done this is every MMO I have played in 25 years of MMOing. That being said. I'm not enjoying crafting in Ashes and I have never felt that way in any MMO. Even the games I have Alpha tested. Well, going back to my first post in this thread on that note... Azherae wrote: » I agree that it's important to maybe remind Intrepid that you can 'feel the negative effects' of their currently implemented placeholder. I disagree with the title of your post, if you want to foster a positive discussion/community response I care mostly about results. Nothing I have said is negative or game bashing what I posted is 100% true. The best gear is the gear you can get. For the majority it's not crafted gear. If you are wearing one or mostly crafted gear. You are in the minority. Thanks for clarifying that, truly, I'll adjust. If you care mostly about results, then I understand why you've made the post in the way you did and I won't 'interfere' with your method of expressing your frustrations in future.
nanfoodle wrote: » Best gear is the gear you can get. Vast majority of players are finding crafting out of their reach. Crafting requires so much time, casuel players have to pick between leveling at the same rate as their friends or progress crafting. Crafters that are getting these systems have a hard time selling items. Current market system is only slightly helpful. Or selling an item means you need to travel 20+ min to get to your buyer. Most people don't have access to crafted gear for many of the reasons I listed above. This is before you get to the frustration of finding things like copper and rubies. Or how convoluted the crafting system is or how not fun the crafting interface is. So the best gear is the rare drops you can get from mobs. It's the majority of what people are playing with. Then you have the highly organized exporters that train you and take the crafting resources you find. That corner the market with supplies they have used griefing tactics to get. All this comes down to one thing. The common player feels frustrated and not having fun. Grinding is the main way to level for now. I get more is coming but this is compounded with the fact that grinding is also how most people are gearing up. This is not fun. IMO crafting needs to become easier to do and succeed at. Crafters need easier ways to get to buyers. By a better market (get this is a place holder) as what we have now is also anything but fun or intuitive. Resources need to be easier to access. If there is lots of things like copper, fix why most people can't get it. Im a master crafter from ESO and I'm spinning my wheels in this game and I know I am not alone. It's the compound of all the problems listed above that makes this untenable for most. If there is something you want to do to keep testers playing. Fix this and give us LFG tools.
nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » RonDog98 wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Grinding will probably be the main way to level forever. We will be on the grindier side of what probably most modern MMO players are accustomed to; and that is a bit of a call back to a more old school approach, of which you will find many callbacks in the design for Ashes. – Steven Sharif Personally, I have had some much fun since the 20th that I have not really noticed the grind. I am level 24 with four journeymen skills and it all feels like it was too quick. I understand your frustrations, but to people like me the game will be unplayable if it gets too easy. I want to live in this world for the long haul and I can't do that if I finish everything. Has intrepid not said they plan to include quests for solo play? I imagine a good portion of population with switch over to questing at least 50% of the time, and that’s even if grinding is still the “optimal” way. It also seems you are on the other side of the opinions with crafting and gathering. From what I’ve read, most of the feedback shows a disdain for the current implementation and pace of progression. I’m all the journey, but right now it is about the journey and it seems most people are unhappy with it. The issues with Artisanship largely aren't about the fact that 'it is a journey' at the moment, it's simply that the current implementation of Artisanship/Itemization is just bad/placeholder. I really hope that we as a community don't let this specific 'concept' turn into the usual binary perception that ruins MMOs. An unpleasant system causes some players to get frustrated, and some other players who like the challenges to get defensive, until some devs just 'flip a coin as to who to make happy' by either doubling down or abandoning the system. When it was just the poor implementation that caused such extreme reactions in the first place. I really want a good Artisanship system, let's please not make this about 'you guys just want convenience, you should learn to enjoy the journey!' vs 'This sucks and is boring/unplayable, make it easier and faster!' Can we just agree that there's a better middle ground and Intrepid just hasn't given it to us yet? I agree and don't. Most would agree legendary gear needs to be just that. A level 10 green bow should be about the same level of work as a level 10 green bow from a dungeon but more accessible to crafters and buyers. The balance is not about making everything easier. It's about balance. This is for two reasons. Crafters should be selling their gear to players. Two players should be relying on crafters. IMO killing mobs should be dropping crafting resource. We should be running to crafters with our loot, asking/paying crafters to make the gear with the stats they want and need. EDIT: I get we will be deconstructing later Right, but that's the middle ground I meant. Any serious Artisan from nearly any other game can look at this game and almost immediately conclude 'oh, mobs should be dropping crafting resources as a generality'. But obviously, they don't right now (again, as a generality), so nothing is working 'correctly'. Balancing is much harder when 'many' mobs drop crafting resources, so whoever is doing that balancing probably isn't ready to put their work live yet. So right now, it's not about the 'people should enjoy the journey' or 'people being unhappy with the fact that there is a journey'. The 'journey' isn't even in the game yet. And yet we are told to say what's fun and not fun. This is something many are talking about but not expressing here. I have not been having this much fun in a MMO since EQ1 back in 1999. So here I am voicing this. I want to love crafting and like in said above. I was a master crafter I ESO. I have done this is every MMO I have played in 25 years of MMOing. That being said. I'm not enjoying crafting in Ashes and I have never felt that way in any MMO. Even the games I have Alpha tested. Well, going back to my first post in this thread on that note... Azherae wrote: » I agree that it's important to maybe remind Intrepid that you can 'feel the negative effects' of their currently implemented placeholder. I disagree with the title of your post, if you want to foster a positive discussion/community response I care mostly about results. Nothing I have said is negative or game bashing what I posted is 100% true. The best gear is the gear you can get. For the majority it's not crafted gear. If you are wearing one or mostly crafted gear. You are in the minority. Thanks for clarifying that, truly, I'll adjust. If you care mostly about results, then I understand why you've made the post in the way you did and I won't 'interfere' with your method of expressing your frustrations in future. Please keep responding. Iron sharpens iron.
Otr wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » nanfoodle wrote: » Azherae wrote: » RonDog98 wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Grinding will probably be the main way to level forever. We will be on the grindier side of what probably most modern MMO players are accustomed to; and that is a bit of a call back to a more old school approach, of which you will find many callbacks in the design for Ashes. – Steven Sharif Personally, I have had some much fun since the 20th that I have not really noticed the grind. I am level 24 with four journeymen skills and it all feels like it was too quick. I understand your frustrations, but to people like me the game will be unplayable if it gets too easy. I want to live in this world for the long haul and I can't do that if I finish everything. Has intrepid not said they plan to include quests for solo play? I imagine a good portion of population with switch over to questing at least 50% of the time, and that’s even if grinding is still the “optimal” way. It also seems you are on the other side of the opinions with crafting and gathering. From what I’ve read, most of the feedback shows a disdain for the current implementation and pace of progression. I’m all the journey, but right now it is about the journey and it seems most people are unhappy with it. The issues with Artisanship largely aren't about the fact that 'it is a journey' at the moment, it's simply that the current implementation of Artisanship/Itemization is just bad/placeholder. I really hope that we as a community don't let this specific 'concept' turn into the usual binary perception that ruins MMOs. An unpleasant system causes some players to get frustrated, and some other players who like the challenges to get defensive, until some devs just 'flip a coin as to who to make happy' by either doubling down or abandoning the system. When it was just the poor implementation that caused such extreme reactions in the first place. I really want a good Artisanship system, let's please not make this about 'you guys just want convenience, you should learn to enjoy the journey!' vs 'This sucks and is boring/unplayable, make it easier and faster!' Can we just agree that there's a better middle ground and Intrepid just hasn't given it to us yet? I agree and don't. Most would agree legendary gear needs to be just that. A level 10 green bow should be about the same level of work as a level 10 green bow from a dungeon but more accessible to crafters and buyers. The balance is not about making everything easier. It's about balance. This is for two reasons. Crafters should be selling their gear to players. Two players should be relying on crafters. IMO killing mobs should be dropping crafting resource. We should be running to crafters with our loot, asking/paying crafters to make the gear with the stats they want and need. EDIT: I get we will be deconstructing later Right, but that's the middle ground I meant. Any serious Artisan from nearly any other game can look at this game and almost immediately conclude 'oh, mobs should be dropping crafting resources as a generality'. But obviously, they don't right now (again, as a generality), so nothing is working 'correctly'. Balancing is much harder when 'many' mobs drop crafting resources, so whoever is doing that balancing probably isn't ready to put their work live yet. So right now, it's not about the 'people should enjoy the journey' or 'people being unhappy with the fact that there is a journey'. The 'journey' isn't even in the game yet. And yet we are told to say what's fun and not fun. This is something many are talking about but not expressing here. I have not been having this much fun in a MMO since EQ1 back in 1999. So here I am voicing this. I want to love crafting and like in said above. I was a master crafter I ESO. I have done this is every MMO I have played in 25 years of MMOing. That being said. I'm not enjoying crafting in Ashes and I have never felt that way in any MMO. Even the games I have Alpha tested. Well, going back to my first post in this thread on that note... Azherae wrote: » I agree that it's important to maybe remind Intrepid that you can 'feel the negative effects' of their currently implemented placeholder. I disagree with the title of your post, if you want to foster a positive discussion/community response I care mostly about results. Nothing I have said is negative or game bashing what I posted is 100% true. The best gear is the gear you can get. For the majority it's not crafted gear. If you are wearing one or mostly crafted gear. You are in the minority. Thanks for clarifying that, truly, I'll adjust. If you care mostly about results, then I understand why you've made the post in the way you did and I won't 'interfere' with your method of expressing your frustrations in future. Please keep responding. Iron sharpens iron. Spoken like a true dwarf!
nanfoodle wrote: » players have to pick between leveling at the same rate as their friends or progress crafting.
