[Feedback] Corruption

The corruption system is a massive waste of time, and can NEVER be properly fixed. Shit can it and do something else.

Why? The corruption system relies on people killing the corrupt person. This necessary aspect means that for corruption system to work you must necessarily be able to kill the corrupted person. The punishment is when killed you drop gear. The quickest easiest work around is to have a friend/guild mate kill you right after you become corrupted pick up your stuff and give it back to you.

The only way to prevent this is to stop people from having their friends/guildmates from killing them, or more accurately described, you have to prevent the corrupted person from being killed by other people. I shouldn't have to explain why this is impossible.

You could make corruption persist through death, which would make no difference, they would just have their friend kill them multiple times.

You could make it so Guildmates/Friends can't attack each other, which would cause a whole host of other problems, and people would just drop the guild/friend long enough to complete the task.

You could add a timer so people can't just drop guilds/friends and pop back in/on the guild/friends list. Doesn't actually stop them for using the work around and they can still do all the things one might do in a guild. Also, punishes people who have done nothing wrong.

What you would have to do is remove the drop gear on death mechanic and replace it with something else. Either the gear is not dropped but instead destroyed, which will never happen because that would discourage OWPvP too much.

Or you remove the other person killing aspect, relying on the environment, which the person just has a friend stand next to them and pick there stuff up. Again easily worked around.

The other option is removing the death aspect all together, and instead coming up with a punishment based on some other aspect which would totally defeat the purpose of the corruption system, which is to encourage OWPvP while creating a risk vs reward decision.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

CROW3

Its_Me wrote: »

I am curious, when you say you have not attacked a single player, are you referring to attacking a non-combatant that does not wish to pvp or anyone, even a flagged player?

Neither. Mainly because most of my testing involves gathering / crafting. So when I'm out on a resource run, I don't want to risk losing a chunk of my gatherables (which typically has at least a few purple / orange). It's all downside for me, and "fun pvp" isn't part of the equation. It's also pretty rare to see a flagged player where I'm gathering as well - so initiating combat would be 95% on greens.

AirborneBerserker

kerrai wrote: »

I feel like you don’t read. You keep repeating that “they can just give you your gear back” thing. You just did it two posts ago. That’s fixable. We explained how. I don’t think I need to continue the conversation.

You cannot fix that, the gear needs to be transferable, the gear also needs to exist.

Its_Me

AirborneBerserker wrote: »

No this goes beyond that. Even if you get the system working exactly as described it will still have loop holes that allow people to never get punished, and pitfalls that punish people which shouldn't be punish.

No it wont.

Look I'm going to break this down for you.

Corruption works like this. Person A attacks person B. Person B doesn't fight back and dies. Person A is now corrupt. Person A is punished when ANY person attacks and kills them.

The system needs; the ability for ANY person to kill the perpetrator, and the ability for that person to loot the gear immediately.

Every single person in the game falls into that category including people that will give you all your gear back.

Any light restriction will be easily circumvented.

Any heavy restriction, like restricting it to just bounty hunters will cause people to track where they are and only engage in the behavior while they aren't around, assuming they are again not a friend that can just hand them their gear back.

Which is why this system will NEVER work, because the punishment can ALWAYS be circumvented.

You are literally forming your own arguments and debating them with yourself again. 🤣

I cannot follow you down your rabbit hole as I do not have the patience for attempting to have productive discussions with people that either skirt having them, or are incapable of having them.

Just go back and re-read my point that you are passing a complete fail judgement on a system that we have been repeatedly told is a work in progress and is not working as intended, instead of turning around and stating 'if the system is working exactly as described' 🤦‍♀️

While I won't follow you down your rabbit hole, I will address one statement you made:

AirborneBerserker wrote: »

Yes it does. the system literally doesn't work at all without PvP, you need to PvP to kill the corrupted person. If you don't then there is no punishment.

Currently, a corrupted player is punished in a variety of ways for going corrupt. Even if there were no other players on the server or anyone to pvp, the corruption would still negatively impact the player with a status effect so your statement that without pvp there is no punishment is not accurate. A corrupted player will be attacked by guards in nodes making normal game play more difficult with potential limited access to things such as storage, specific vendors, the marketplace ect. The player may have stat dampening on things like lower hp, mana and damage, making it more difficult or slower to work off the corruption by killing mobs. The dampening effects could result in higher chance of death while working off the corruption by killing mobs and loss of gear by not being able to get back to the death loot pile in time or difficulty of access of it by dying at the feet of a crystal golem. A player not being able to change to non-combatant status and subsequently being targeted by others players and potentially dropping gear is currently a major part of the overtuned system, but it is not the only penalty.

We are currently testing a very crude form of the corruption system and the devs are aware of players killing each other to work off the corruption quicker, but that does not suggest that this path removes all negative impact as xp debt will still occur.

If you feel that changes should be made to what you are seeing, it would be more productive to submit the feedback without dooming an entire system we have not even fully experienced yet. Anyone with experience in testing games, knows how this work. We supply feedback on what we see but if a dev has taken the time to tell us the system currently in place is intentionally overtuned and not working as intended, try to keep it in mind when submitting the feedback and refrain from demanding the entire system has to go. 😲

The corruption system will be worked on but I do not expect that focus anytime soon as steven wants PKing of non-combatants minimized for alpha. I have submitted my feedback for immediate improvements to lesson the chance of players unintentionally going red (what I feel is the greatest issue at this point) and this should help encourage more open world pvp.

Am I as bent out of shape as you about guilds or friends being able to kill someone to work off their corruption and pick up their gear, no. The person is still negatively impacted and inconvenienced as are those around him that need to run to him to grab gear or help work off the corruption and the player will still be losing xp ect.

It is extremely unlikely that one kill of a non-combatant will turn anyone red down the road. It is also unlikely that gear will drop with the first level of corruption down the road or if it does, a limitation on the number of drops and less focus on weapons ect. It is likely that everything from how corruption is worked off to what can drop will eventually be tweaked.

Its_Me

CROW3 wrote: »

Its_Me wrote: »

I am curious, when you say you have not attacked a single player, are you referring to attacking a non-combatant that does not wish to pvp or anyone, even a flagged player?

Neither. Mainly because most of my testing involves gathering / crafting. So when I'm out on a resource run, I don't want to risk losing a chunk of my gatherables (which typically has at least a few purple / orange). It's all downside for me, and "fun pvp" isn't part of the equation. It's also pretty rare to see a flagged player where I'm gathering as well - so initiating combat would be 95% on greens.

Ah okay this makes sense. I see a lot of flagged players and have no issue flagging up for combat but it makes sense you would not see as much if you are out gathering or crafting. It also makes sense that you are not intentionally flagging as you do not want to lose resources so you are using the overtuned corruption system to prevent deaths. The fact that you have only experienced one death, shows that the system is working as Steven intended for alpha, even if friends and/or guildies can assist corrupted players with retrieving lost gear and working off the corruption.

The system is currently overtuned and in your favor right now. Steven wants to minimize people killing players that have no desire to pvp (for whatever reason) and is trying to balance his PVP and PVE playerbase.

Currently, PVP players are complaining that it is overtuned (we know it is and it is intended) and about the bugs and issues that result in consensual pvp (two players flagged) ending up in corruption and harsh penalties. Although I do not think there is a big shortage of pvp for people that enjoy it and look for it, I do think there is definitely less PKing of non-combatants. I believe that once some of the bugs are worked out that result in corruption outside of intentionally engaging and killing a non-combatant, open world consensual pvp will definitely rise.

My biggest concern is that because it is so overtuned right now for alpha, the PVE playerbase will have difficulty once the system is worked on and bugs and issues are removed and players no longer go red after one non-combatant kill so more non-consensual interaction between PVE and PVP players will be taking place.

Zapatos80

The only time I got PK'ed was day 1 when zerg groups were contesting PVP spots without caring about their gear. I have yet to be PK'ed anytime since (just about to hit lvl 25). However, I have accidentally gone corrupt when someone hopped out of a lawless zone and instantly lost the combattant flag literally as they were dying. Or someone being flagged as combattant on my screen and it being only a visual glitch.

Before adding any more penalty such as gear deletion on death, there needs to be an option to 100% guarentee never ever to go corrupt (so if you check it, you can never accidentally go corrupt). Going corrupt should be a deliberate choice, not some jank mechanics that can make you lose an item that cost you a ton of time and mats to craft.

AirborneBerserker

Zapatos80 wrote: »

The only time I got PK'ed was day 1 when zerg groups were contesting PVP spots without caring about their gear. I have yet to be PK'ed anytime since (just about to hit lvl 25). However, I have accidentally gone corrupt when someone hopped out of a lawless zone and instantly lost the combattant flag literally as they were dying. Or someone being flagged as combattant on my screen and it being only a visual glitch.

Before adding any more penalty such as gear deletion on death, there needs to be an option to 100% guarentee never ever to go corrupt (so if you check it, you can never accidentally go corrupt). Going corrupt should be a deliberate choice, not some jank mechanics that can make you lose an item that cost you a ton of time and mats to craft.

The only way to 100% guarantee not getting flagged is abstinence. Sorry.

Its_Me

Zapatos80 wrote: »

Before adding any more penalty such as gear deletion on death, there needs to be an option to 100% guarentee never ever to go corrupt (so if you check it, you can never accidentally go corrupt). Going corrupt should be a deliberate choice, not some jank mechanics that can make you lose an item that cost you a ton of time and mats to craft.

I agree, bugs and issues need to be worked out as players should not go corrupt from engaging with someone else that is in a combatant status at the time of engagement.

Whether this unintentional corruption results from mounts being used in combat or someone that changes status during combat, this needs to be addressed.

I have suggested a timer where once someone is in combatant status and engaged, that status cannot fall off until 'x' amount of time after combat ceases.

Let's say the timer is 30 seconds or 1 minute. In your situation where the person crossed out of lawless during a fight, if you were still pursuing and doing any damage where they could not stay out of combat for a full 30 seconds or a minute, their combat status could not change. Same if someone decided to ALT f during combat, their status would not change until actually out of combat for that 30 seconds or a minute

There are plenty of players flagging up now but I think the amount would be much greater if a couple of these issues are worked out.

Its_Me

AirborneBerserker wrote: »

Zapatos80 wrote: »

The only time I got PK'ed was day 1 when zerg groups were contesting PVP spots without caring about their gear. I have yet to be PK'ed anytime since (just about to hit lvl 25). However, I have accidentally gone corrupt when someone hopped out of a lawless zone and instantly lost the combattant flag literally as they were dying. Or someone being flagged as combattant on my screen and it being only a visual glitch.

Before adding any more penalty such as gear deletion on death, there needs to be an option to 100% guarentee never ever to go corrupt (so if you check it, you can never accidentally go corrupt). Going corrupt should be a deliberate choice, not some jank mechanics that can make you lose an item that cost you a ton of time and mats to craft.

The only way to 100% guarantee not getting flagged is abstinence. Sorry.

Not getting flagged or not getting corrupted?

Part of my feedback came from flagging and experiencing issues but that is the thing about testing, we need to actually engage in the systems and mechanics to find issues, offer valid feedback and improve the game.

Even knowing the risk, I still flag

Zapatos80

Its_Me wrote: »

I have suggested a timer where once someone is in combatant status and engaged, that status cannot fall off until 'x' amount of time after combat ceases.

Yep, it's not like re-inventing the wheel either. Ultima Online has worked like this forever; 2 people engaged in PVP will stay combattant flag to each other as long as the fight keeps going. I would be surprised if this wasn't the direction the game is taking and current system still has placeholder jank atm.

AirborneBerserker

Its_Me wrote: »

AirborneBerserker wrote: »

Zapatos80 wrote: »

The only time I got PK'ed was day 1 when zerg groups were contesting PVP spots without caring about their gear. I have yet to be PK'ed anytime since (just about to hit lvl 25). However, I have accidentally gone corrupt when someone hopped out of a lawless zone and instantly lost the combattant flag literally as they were dying. Or someone being flagged as combattant on my screen and it being only a visual glitch.

Before adding any more penalty such as gear deletion on death, there needs to be an option to 100% guarentee never ever to go corrupt (so if you check it, you can never accidentally go corrupt). Going corrupt should be a deliberate choice, not some jank mechanics that can make you lose an item that cost you a ton of time and mats to craft.

The only way to 100% guarantee not getting flagged is abstinence. Sorry.

Not getting flagged or not getting corrupted?

Part of my feedback came from flagging and experiencing issues but that is the thing about testing, we need to actually engage in the systems and mechanics to find issues, offer valid feedback and improve the game.

Even knowing the risk, I still flag

Not getting corrupted.

Sylverwolf

AirborneBerserker wrote: »

The corruption system is a massive waste of time, and can NEVER be properly fixed. Shit can it and do something else.

They could do some minor changes, such as:

1) Set corruption to last a number of game hours, rather than lasting until death. So, each non-combatant they kill, they stay corrupted for 6 game hours (more or less) no matter how many times they die, and there is no way to shorten the timer other than waiting it out in game.

2) Set it so they drop 1 piece of gear each time they die while corrupted.

3) Set it so their stats are penalized by 10% for each non-combatant they've killed.

Everyone will be hunting them for their items, or just the fun of killing them.

So, the corrupted player is now the hunted.

AirborneBerserker

Sylverwolf wrote: »

AirborneBerserker wrote: »

The corruption system is a massive waste of time, and can NEVER be properly fixed. Shit can it and do something else.

They could do some minor changes, such as:

1) Set corruption to last a number of game hours, rather than lasting until death. So, each non-combatant they kill, they stay corrupted for 6 game hours (more or less) no matter how many times they die, and there is no way to shorten the timer other than waiting it out in game.

2) Set it so they drop 1 piece of gear each time they die while corrupted.

3) Set it so their stats are penalized by 10% for each non-combatant they've killed.

Everyone will be hunting them for their items, or just the fun of killing them.

So, the corrupted player is now the hunted.

1.) Any amount time would have to be in game time. they can just log out wait till people leave the area then log back in.

2.) The point of the System is to encourage PvP while discouraging griefing, any penalty that is too punishing will result in people avoiding the system all together in fear of accidently becoming corrupted and losing gear.

3.) This doesn't actually punish them with out being coupled with another one of the above which would be too much.

Child Item