CROW3 wrote: » eyawn wrote: » is that what you think I'm talking about? If your arguing for caravans to be easier so 'casuals' can participate, then yes. If not , then not. this is why you won't get why you're selling mounts for less than you make them for. Try to make a profit w/player stalls, or yeah - you may have to sell your results for a loss to gain skill. It's called investment. When your skill is high enough to produce a mount that has higher demand and lower supply then go make some profit. Does this require caravans, no. you'll blame pve... but realistically. ganking low levels is FAAAAR from pvp. I'm not blaming anything - pve is great, but this is an ow pvx game. There are no pve only zones, so you have to fight other players sometimes to access the content you want or materials or gear. That's one of the core premises of Ashes. If you're getting killed as a level 10 running caravans because level 25s are attacking you, maybe you're not ready to run caravans.
eyawn wrote: » is that what you think I'm talking about?
this is why you won't get why you're selling mounts for less than you make them for.
you'll blame pve... but realistically. ganking low levels is FAAAAR from pvp.
eyawn wrote: » there is it.. the last sentance... maybe you should be gated from running content... lol
eyawn wrote: » there is it.. the last sentance... maybe you should be gated from running content... lol then add that fact to an already dwiddiling segregated market. deflation is invenitable.
ok than have fun ruining your game...
Ludullu wrote: » eyawn wrote: » there is it.. the last sentance... maybe you should be gated from running content... lol Lvl25 mobs give more money than lvl10 mobs, yet lvl10 players can't really fight lvl25 mobs. Should lvl25 mobs be designed in a way where you CAN fight them as a lvl10? Otherwise it's "gatekeeping the content", right?
CROW3 wrote: » eyawn wrote: » there is it.. the last sentance... maybe you should be gated from running content... lol then add that fact to an already dwiddiling segregated market. deflation is invenitable. ok than have fun ruining your game... There’s this old saying “When you have the facts argue the facts, when you have the law argue the law, when you don’t have facts or the law then pound the table.” I didn’t say the system should only be for a few people, I said you need to be able to hold your own against the players that will attack the caravan. That isn’t a gate, you CAN run a caravan at level 10 at 3am ST and probably be ok. That’s an alternate way of participating. When mules are introduced, you can run goods that way. There are like a dozen different things you can do to help connect goods to nodes without padding all the sharp corners in the house.
AirborneBerserker wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » eyawn wrote: » there is it.. the last sentance... maybe you should be gated from running content... lol then add that fact to an already dwiddiling segregated market. deflation is invenitable. ok than have fun ruining your game... There’s this old saying “When you have the facts argue the facts, when you have the law argue the law, when you don’t have facts or the law then pound the table.” I didn’t say the system should only be for a few people, I said you need to be able to hold your own against the players that will attack the caravan. That isn’t a gate, you CAN run a caravan at level 10 at 3am ST and probably be ok. That’s an alternate way of participating. When mules are introduced, you can run goods that way. There are like a dozen different things you can do to help connect goods to nodes without padding all the sharp corners in the house. Rephrasing something in different terms dosen't change the meaning. Expecting people to sacrafice sleep to be able to participate in a system is not only gate keeping it's toxic for the player base. There is nothing wrong with gate keeping. We gate keep all kinds of things in society. Brain surgery, among other things. The question is what purpose does the gate keeping serve, and what problems does it create. In this case the purpose is to maintain the verisimilitude of the world being dangerous, the problem it creates is people that can't make enough money any other way. Which means even buying basic things is difficult due to inflation. Which can be solved by adding a system, which is planned. So no change is needed at this point.
Caeryl wrote: » AirborneBerserker wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » eyawn wrote: » there is it.. the last sentence... maybe you should be gated from running content... lol then add that fact to an already dwindling segregated market. deflation is inevitable. ok than have fun ruining your game... There’s this old saying “When you have the facts argue the facts, when you have the law argue the law, when you don’t have facts or the law then pound the table.” I didn’t say the system should only be for a few people, I said you need to be able to hold your own against the players that will attack the caravan. That isn’t a gate, you CAN run a caravan at level 10 at 3am ST and probably be ok. That’s an alternate way of participating. When mules are introduced, you can run goods that way. There are like a dozen different things you can do to help connect goods to nodes without padding all the sharp corners in the house. Rephrasing something in different terms doesn't change the meaning. Expecting people to sacrifice sleep to be able to participate in a system is not only gate keeping it's toxic for the player base. There is nothing wrong with gate keeping. We gate keep all kinds of things in society. Brain surgery, among other things. The question is what purpose does the gate keeping serve, and what problems does it create. In this case the purpose is to maintain the verisimilitude of the world being dangerous, the problem it creates is people that can't make enough money any other way. Which means even buying basic things is difficult due to inflation. Which can be solved by adding a system, which is planned. So no change is needed at this point. Caravans are the method of moving goods en masse. It doesn't matter who is running it; That always needs to come with some threat of being attacked. Move goods on horseback so that corruption is in effect. Utilize mules when they get added. The OP is making an unreasonable ask and calling it 'gate keeping' is mostly just funny
AirborneBerserker wrote: » CROW3 wrote: » eyawn wrote: » there is it.. the last sentence... maybe you should be gated from running content... lol then add that fact to an already dwindling segregated market. deflation is inevitable. ok than have fun ruining your game... There’s this old saying “When you have the facts argue the facts, when you have the law argue the law, when you don’t have facts or the law then pound the table.” I didn’t say the system should only be for a few people, I said you need to be able to hold your own against the players that will attack the caravan. That isn’t a gate, you CAN run a caravan at level 10 at 3am ST and probably be ok. That’s an alternate way of participating. When mules are introduced, you can run goods that way. There are like a dozen different things you can do to help connect goods to nodes without padding all the sharp corners in the house. Rephrasing something in different terms doesn't change the meaning. Expecting people to sacrifice sleep to be able to participate in a system is not only gate keeping it's toxic for the player base. There is nothing wrong with gate keeping. We gate keep all kinds of things in society. Brain surgery, among other things. The question is what purpose does the gate keeping serve, and what problems does it create. In this case the purpose is to maintain the verisimilitude of the world being dangerous, the problem it creates is people that can't make enough money any other way. Which means even buying basic things is difficult due to inflation. Which can be solved by adding a system, which is planned. So no change is needed at this point.
CROW3 wrote: » eyawn wrote: » there is it.. the last sentence... maybe you should be gated from running content... lol then add that fact to an already dwindling segregated market. deflation is inevitable. ok than have fun ruining your game... There’s this old saying “When you have the facts argue the facts, when you have the law argue the law, when you don’t have facts or the law then pound the table.” I didn’t say the system should only be for a few people, I said you need to be able to hold your own against the players that will attack the caravan. That isn’t a gate, you CAN run a caravan at level 10 at 3am ST and probably be ok. That’s an alternate way of participating. When mules are introduced, you can run goods that way. There are like a dozen different things you can do to help connect goods to nodes without padding all the sharp corners in the house.
eyawn wrote: » there is it.. the last sentence... maybe you should be gated from running content... lol then add that fact to an already dwindling segregated market. deflation is inevitable.
AirborneBerserker wrote: » That being said there is nothing wrong with the Caravan system, it's group content, get a group and do them. Which can be solved by adding a system, which is planned. So no change is needed at this point.
AirborneBerserker wrote: » Rephrasing something in different terms doesn't change the meaning.
Not anyone can run a caravan.
The question is what purpose does the gate keeping serve, and what problems does it create. In this case the purpose is to maintain the verisimilitude of the world being dangerous, the problem it creates is people that can't make enough money any other way. Which means even buying basic things is difficult due to inflation. Which can be solved by adding a system, which is planned.
So no change is needed at this point.
CROW3 wrote: » AirborneBerserker wrote: » Rephrasing something in different terms doesn't change the meaning. It does when those terms signify something different. For instance... Not anyone can run a caravan. Any player CAN run a caravan in the current state. There are just different ways to do it successfully if you're lower v. higher level. Taking alternate paths to overcome a designed challenge (caravans are roving pvp areas) isn't 'toxic' (talk about a word overused into oblivion), it's problem solving. I ran a caravan at level 7 from Winstead to Halcyon. It took an hour and was boring AF, but I did it.
MissionCreep wrote: » I'm unclear if we are talking about RIGHT NOW in Alpha or to change the game permanently/forever at launch. Those are not the same proposition. Alpha has issues but caravans are obviously being adjusted as we speak. I wouldn't mind some temporary changes for alpha but then people will get used to that and complain when they go away in a later stage. So you have to be careful there.
daveywavey wrote: » If you don't want the risk, then sell to the vendor. Nobody is forcing you to run caravans, which were always intended and announced as being no-Corruption PvP events.
indigohaze wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » If you don't want the risk, then sell to the vendor. Nobody is forcing you to run caravans, which were always intended and announced as being no-Corruption PvP events. Just wondering where that was announced or indicated to players? Cause I didn't know until I watched some high level just beating the crap out of noobs in the starting areas cause someone drove a cart through there....
indigohaze wrote: » Just wondering where that was announced or indicated to players? Cause I didn't know until I watched some high level just beating the crap out of noobs in the starting areas cause someone drove a cart through there....
Gyn wrote: » THEN caravan" what the heck is the point of trading if not to gain gold to buy gear or mats to make gear? You put the cart before the horse and act like the passers by are crazy for calling out the issue. Steven has said himself the end game is not the point, so WHY is the only argument ever "get to end game, then do this thing". It doesn't jive with the directors own words.
Ludullu wrote: » indigohaze wrote: » Just wondering where that was announced or indicated to players? Cause I didn't know until I watched some high level just beating the crap out of noobs in the starting areas cause someone drove a cart through there.... From 2017 (pretty much the start of it all)https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Caravans And if you're talking about Alpha. No, Alpha does not have first-time-player systems, because it's not interested in first-time-players who got no damn clue about what they're supposed to do in this test. This was one of the main reasons for the high cost of testing - it would weed out the people unprepared for the test.
indigohaze wrote: » So I should have go to a wiki (that seems fairly obtuse every time I've looked at it) read it in detail before deciding that it's something I should invest time/money in and all the other data sources that show interesting crafting, a fairly expansive level of character customization and what is shaping up to be a large world (including the Website) which has all been thrown to the forefront of the attention grabbing 'marketing' should be secondary or even ignored? I would have figured that some of this info would be more prominent on the website itself as opposed to buried in a Game Design Document that no one outside of Auditors and Insomniacs is typically going to read
nanfoodle wrote: » Even casual players can join a guild.
nanfoodle wrote: » Even casual players can join a guild. Run as a group. I do think Ashes needs to things or this game will not have enough casual players. No MMO makes it without them. Unless your a low budget game. From what I have gathered, Steven has put in 50 mill of his money and as much as another 80 mill. This game needs to turn a profit if we want a game.
