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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Respawning in PvP / PvP events - a huge issue
MilosAoC
Member, Alpha Two
There is currently a huge problem with how respawning works in pvp.
My clan did an event where we took out some caravans to bait pvp. We knew we were gonna get attacked by at least twice out numbers. This was not really an issue as we can win fights by being better coordinated.
What is a problem though is that winning a fight doesnt really matter at all in the grand scheme of things . I will outline what happened during the event:
- Enemy engages.
- Enemy gets some hits on our caravans.
- Enemy gets wiped.
- Enemy instantly respawns with full hp and mana.
- We have to get mana after the fight.
- We move our caravans a tiny bit in between engagements.
- We cant heal our caravans because player healing on them is nerft into the floor.
- Depending on how close we are to an emberspring, we cant even get full mana before the next engagement starts
- Repeat
Resulting in:
- We make 1 mistake and lose our caravans instantly because they have been whittled down over the span of the 1 hour event in which we lost 0 fights prior to the mistake.
We werent expecting to turn in these caravans, so losing them wasnt really an issue, its a matter of HOW we lost them. How is it that even though we wipe our enemies over and over and over again and again, we just dont gain any advantage because they are right back at the objective with full hp and full mana 15 seconds after dying. You just cant move your caravan away from an emberspring like this. I understand gear breaks, but from experience this simply just doesnt seem to matter, there will be plenty of people who can keep you busy while some guys repair at the closest vendor.
Something has to change with emberspring respawns.
I propose at the bare minimum a death timer for PvP deaths. Something along the lines of:
- You die, u get a 15 second respawn timer.
- You die again within 5 minutes, you get a 30 second timer,
- You die again within 5 minutes, you get a 1 minute timer
- Etc etc, let the max timer be 2 minutes or so
- You live for 5 minutes after dying, it gets reset
Theres plenty of ways to address this problem, i hope intrepid takes a look at this soon, because in its current state, this way of respawning makes pvp very boring due to it being impossible to outplay any (somewhat capable) zergs.
I also think that the way pvp protection works right now is not good. The way it should work imo is like this:
- After respawn you have an invisible 60 second timer on your character
- If you are around an emberspring while this timer is active, you receive the pvp protection
- If you step out of the protection radius around the emberspring, the buff goes away.
- Once the timer runs out, you will not receive the pvp protection anymore.
Its important to not make these areas around embersprings defacto safe zones, this will create scenarios where people run to them to avoid getting killed.
My clan did an event where we took out some caravans to bait pvp. We knew we were gonna get attacked by at least twice out numbers. This was not really an issue as we can win fights by being better coordinated.
What is a problem though is that winning a fight doesnt really matter at all in the grand scheme of things . I will outline what happened during the event:
- Enemy engages.
- Enemy gets some hits on our caravans.
- Enemy gets wiped.
- Enemy instantly respawns with full hp and mana.
- We have to get mana after the fight.
- We move our caravans a tiny bit in between engagements.
- We cant heal our caravans because player healing on them is nerft into the floor.
- Depending on how close we are to an emberspring, we cant even get full mana before the next engagement starts
- Repeat
Resulting in:
- We make 1 mistake and lose our caravans instantly because they have been whittled down over the span of the 1 hour event in which we lost 0 fights prior to the mistake.
We werent expecting to turn in these caravans, so losing them wasnt really an issue, its a matter of HOW we lost them. How is it that even though we wipe our enemies over and over and over again and again, we just dont gain any advantage because they are right back at the objective with full hp and full mana 15 seconds after dying. You just cant move your caravan away from an emberspring like this. I understand gear breaks, but from experience this simply just doesnt seem to matter, there will be plenty of people who can keep you busy while some guys repair at the closest vendor.
Something has to change with emberspring respawns.
I propose at the bare minimum a death timer for PvP deaths. Something along the lines of:
- You die, u get a 15 second respawn timer.
- You die again within 5 minutes, you get a 30 second timer,
- You die again within 5 minutes, you get a 1 minute timer
- Etc etc, let the max timer be 2 minutes or so
- You live for 5 minutes after dying, it gets reset
Theres plenty of ways to address this problem, i hope intrepid takes a look at this soon, because in its current state, this way of respawning makes pvp very boring due to it being impossible to outplay any (somewhat capable) zergs.
I also think that the way pvp protection works right now is not good. The way it should work imo is like this:
- After respawn you have an invisible 60 second timer on your character
- If you are around an emberspring while this timer is active, you receive the pvp protection
- If you step out of the protection radius around the emberspring, the buff goes away.
- Once the timer runs out, you will not receive the pvp protection anymore.
Its important to not make these areas around embersprings defacto safe zones, this will create scenarios where people run to them to avoid getting killed.
7
Comments
Definitely agree! I think that the first death should be upwards of 30 seconds increasing each time
12 hr cooldown for setting your home emberspring so you can't just bounce around the map. Just a temporary solution until something else can be worked out.
Silkroad online has a similar system, but they have 3 factions, traders, thieves, and hunter's.
Having a "good guy" trying to actively kill thieves in return for rewards.
Maybe you could have people trying to attack caravans be forced to buy a thief costume(similar to profession clothes) from town that get's destroyed if they die. Then they would have to return to town after an unsuccessful attack.
Thieves could also be permanently flagged and killable by hunter's while it's equipped.
I dont think we need attackers to risk anything extra. They already risk wasting their time, and time is money. I assume you type this in context of caravan events. For the caravan event to make any sort of sense, the threat of getting attacked needs to be there. If attacking a caravan evet has a high(er) barrier of entry, the whole risk part for caravans is highly diminished. You are literally duping gold with a caravan run, of course there should be a super high risk.
Getting attacked isnt the problem at all.
Not being able to defend due to highly imballanced systems is a problem.
being able to rezz ontop of where u died basicly so u can keep zerging is bad gameplay there need to be forced resets which would be why forcing home respawns from pvp kill would be good i think although might not play out well with larger world possibly
That is way too drastic. How is it any fun to only be allowed to do 1 fight, thats stupid. Respawn timers work in pretty much every other game, its a proven concept. I dont think intrepid needs to reinvent the wheel here.
you say drastic but i think it promotes fighting between neighbors instead of people across the map aswell as territory control since your able to boop people out of the area and send them packing the further away from your territory/citizenship the riskier it gets and the easier it is for the "defenders" so it acts as a balancing mechanic too since you can wittle down the force that pushed further out from respawn than the other side, helps with zergs aswell since logisticly there only so far they can push before a defending side can kill one or 2 of them sending them back to there home so if it a 10 vs 30 near your spawn the 10 can kill one each time and slowly push back the zerg forcing them to go back and regroup.
overall it removes some power from zerg making it harder for them to maintain a zerg since if your pushed right back towards your home spawn u can kill 1-3 each fight u will slowly be able to overcome and force them to regroup.
Forcing people to rez at their home emberspring just means they will move their home to the caravan route, and all of a sudden you have the same problem again.
This means PvP deaths become a means of fast travel home.
I don't like the idea of having to wait for 30 seconds. It is needlessly wasted time.
However, I would like the idea of respawning always taking you to the second closest respawn point, rather than the closest. This will also add an element of chaos to any in motion PvP situation, as the respawn point could change at a somewhat unexpected time, making coordernation harder.
PvP death closest ember spring that is X distance away from your death point. 2nd closest wont work sometime cause some POI emberspring are basicly right ontop of eachother for some reason for example oakenbane and expitition camp and church and 2nd sword outpost
That would work basically the same, though I would expect respawn point locations to be fine tuned before the game goes live.