Feedback from a player that's stuck at level 8

The Feedback

1. The only people currently playing this game are people that have been playing this game. What I mean is it is impossible to find people to play with that are low level. I'm a level 8 Bard on all servers (lvl 9 on Lotharia) and I've been stuck at that level since January. Every weekend I log in at different times of day to spam the global chat for about 10 minutes then I log off because I can't find anybody.
2. No scroll wheel hotkeys is kinda weird. Maybe I'm alone on this one.
3. I've given feedback on a hotkey issue since the time I started playing around the beginning of January but its still not fixed. The issue is if you keybind a modifier + a mouse click or mouse button, and you use tab target mode, it breaks the game. You lose your ability of auto attacking even if you switch off tab target and back. Also you lose your ability to back pedal. There's lots of other random weird movement bugs I run into but I lost all hope they'd get fixed because I'm not part of the big clans that spam their problems.
4. The game is boring. All I do when I log on is try to find a group, fail, then kill goblins at the starter area. Wow.
5. Even though I think it'd be a good game if you always had people to play with, I guarantee the majority of people that try this game are going to be turned off within the first hour just like I was. I understand Steven's said many times he wants this to be a niche game, I just think its a weird business decision if that niche community is a little bit too niche.
6. This is a good point of feedback..... So the highest I ever got to was lvl 20 on Bard during Alpha 2 phase 1 in 2024. When I was playing at that time, I didn't have much else to do so I was able to disregard some life responsibilities so I could play, so I was able to group up with other no lifers. This made me realize the combat in this game is pretty good but the mobs at the time were pretty glitchy and the TTK was ridiculously long (maybe its better now, idk).
7. Back to the bad... Based on the previous point, this game seems like it requires too much investment of people to be able to enjoy. But again maybe thats the niche you want. MMORPG's aren't for everyone.

Suggestions
1. Make the game more solo-able at the start. Make some sort of starting questline that eventually culminates in groups being required to group up (maybe around lvl 10) as a means of introducing group play & how its so essential in this game.
2. Add quests in general. This game in its current state is so dull and empty and... boring. Nothing ever happens in the world, I don't see many people playing ever but this is probably because everyone is already at end game or doing whatever the gathering stuff is in this game.
3. Do better with introducing whatever the gathering stuff is. I haven't gone out of my way to learn any of it but I don't want to have to go out of my way for this stuff, and I'm sure plenty others share this sentiment. Make it easier to learn how to do whatever your gathering skills are.
4. Don't apply only to the hardcore gamers. I think lots of people that play these types of games are my age or older (I'm 28) and have lives outside of games. I think the best way of making the game more casual friendly is to make the game more enjoyable right outta the box. The current start of the game is: Kill goblins. Get Commission. Get loadstone or whatever they're called. Get Horse. Kill more goblins. zzz. If it were more like "HEY NEWBIES GATHER HERE FOR A QUEST!!! YOU ALL WILL HAVE TO GO TO KORRA LOCH!!!" or something like that, it would show the good sides of the game IMMEDIATELY to all new players because it wouldn't take such a huge time investment to see the good sides of the game that come with group play.

I think the game has potential and I understand "iTs aN aLFa" like I always hear, but its for that reason that I even took the time to write any of this. I see the potential but its current state is completely unenjoyable for me.

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Comments

Veeshan

alot of the more solo friendly part of the game not in yet tbh, there spose 2 be quest and questline but atm there bear bones basicly checking for functionality more than practicality atm.
you can solo your way to max level quite easily it just take like twice as long though atm

Volgaris

Palmskee wrote: »

The Feedback

1. The only people currently playing this game are people that have been playing this game. What I mean is it is impossible to find people to play with that are low level. I'm a level 8 Bard on all servers (lvl 9 on Lotharia) and I've been stuck at that level since January. Every weekend I log in at different times of day to spam the global chat for about 10 minutes then I log off because I can't find anybody.
2. No scroll wheel hotkeys is kinda weird. Maybe I'm alone on this one.
3. I've given feedback on a hotkey issue since the time I started playing around the beginning of January but its still not fixed. The issue is if you keybind a modifier + a mouse click or mouse button, and you use tab target mode, it breaks the game. You lose your ability of auto attacking even if you switch off tab target and back. Also you lose your ability to back pedal. There's lots of other random weird movement bugs I run into but I lost all hope they'd get fixed because I'm not part of the big clans that spam their problems.
4. The game is boring. All I do when I log on is try to find a group, fail, then kill goblins at the starter area. Wow.
5. Even though I think it'd be a good game if you always had people to play with, I guarantee the majority of people that try this game are going to be turned off within the first hour just like I was. I understand Steven's said many times he wants this to be a niche game, I just think its a weird business decision if that niche community is a little bit too niche.
6. This is a good point of feedback..... So the highest I ever got to was lvl 20 on Bard during Alpha 2 phase 1 in 2024. When I was playing at that time, I didn't have much else to do so I was able to disregard some life responsibilities so I could play, so I was able to group up with other no lifers. This made me realize the combat in this game is pretty good but the mobs at the time were pretty glitchy and the TTK was ridiculously long (maybe its better now, idk).
7. Back to the bad... Based on the previous point, this game seems like it requires too much investment of people to be able to enjoy. But again maybe thats the niche you want. MMORPG's aren't for everyone.

Suggestions
1. Make the game more solo-able at the start. Make some sort of starting questline that eventually culminates in groups being required to group up (maybe around lvl 10) as a means of introducing group play & how its so essential in this game.
2. Add quests in general. This game in its current state is so dull and empty and... boring. Nothing ever happens in the world, I don't see many people playing ever but this is probably because everyone is already at end game or doing whatever the gathering stuff is in this game.
3. Do better with introducing whatever the gathering stuff is. I haven't gone out of my way to learn any of it but I don't want to have to go out of my way for this stuff, and I'm sure plenty others share this sentiment. Make it easier to learn how to do whatever your gathering skills are.
4. Don't apply only to the hardcore gamers. I think lots of people that play these types of games are my age or older (I'm 28) and have lives outside of games. I think the best way of making the game more casual friendly is to make the game more enjoyable right outta the box. The current start of the game is: Kill goblins. Get Commission. Get loadstone or whatever they're called. Get Horse. Kill more goblins. zzz. If it were more like "HEY NEWBIES GATHER HERE FOR A QUEST!!! YOU ALL WILL HAVE TO GO TO KORRA LOCH!!!" or something like that, it would show the good sides of the game IMMEDIATELY to all new players because it wouldn't take such a huge time investment to see the good sides of the game that come with group play.

I think the game has potential and I understand "iTs aN aLFa" like I always hear, but its for that reason that I even took the time to write any of this. I see the potential but its current state is completely unenjoyable for me.

I came to a similar conclusion around new years. I don't want to spend the time grinding away in an alpha test. It's boring. I've leveled several characters to different levels mostly around 15-20 ish. The games hell levels which suck dingleberries. There's tons of loot deletion bugs. The gathering meta is fucked. People still playing are bored so they kill lowbies for sport. The attribute/stat imbalance is nuts. The attributes are more simple than a mobile game. The class trees are more simple than an ARPG. There's tons of missing/low yield materials preventing crafting. I could go on...

I can put up with all of that if there wasn't a grind. Yeah the game is in Alpha, but it's not fun to playtest. So don't, I don't, I just jump in on the weekends to check out some UI and storage stuff, kind of over /bug reporting though... Maybe they'll bring back a production test realm that has accelerated exp, drops, materials, ect that they wipe every month or something. I'd happily playtest on that and make reports as I seen them.

oddstero

You don't need a group to level. Instead of standing there spamming for a group, go out and kill stuff. Go out and gather stuff. Go out and craft stuff. All classes can currently solo just fine and there are plenty of ways to gain xp. Hell, fish. And then when someone is looking for a group or your class... join. I see plenty of people asking for Church groups on Vyra in primtetime and on the weekend so doesn't seem a valid complaint. And get out of the starter area. There's plenty to do besides goblins!

Duffelz

I mean, I'm not trying to offer any type of copium here, but it's a MMO after all. Playing with friends is what a game like this is all about. Truthfully time without my friends on this game sometimes seems like a chore, However in my travels I've gained quite a few friends, which has made the journey seem a lot better. One thing I did start doing was going to the area I intended to grind and sitting in a safe spot. A lot of groups don't post in global chat as they don't want to wait for someone to run there from across the world just to quit 5 minutes into the grind. I do think something to consider by the developers would be a full party buff that gave everyone a significant XP boost, Rather than sharing the XP everyone gets individually but split by 8. It would give a bigger reason to group up, and it would light a fire under groups running fewer party members. It would also give solo players an even greater reason to group as well.

I personally only dabbled into the gathering/processing/crafting side of things - This is not normally something I enjoy doing in any game. I only did it because I was awake during off peak hours and nobody was grouping in stuff, Or the pugs were just that bad and I remembered their names.I wasn't to fond of the system as walked around for a few hours looking for mats to craft ONE item. Once I started the processing side of things which told me it was going to take over a half hour to complete, I was kinda over it. Farming a specific area or group of mobs seemed much more efficient and I feel like it wouldn't even be close.

As far as keybinding went, I naturally felt comfortable in the default keybinding. Some things felt a little awkward at first like the auto attack, but I mean, Habits form as you kill hundreds of thousands of mobs during your leveling experience. I never thought to bind my mouse wheel to anything, however I'm sure that'll become available in time.

I'll agree TTK (Time to kill) is a little rough at the moment. I think the leveling process and much more specifically the solo grind wouldn't be so bad if the TTK was more in line. There's a point of it that makes you question your gear and such, which is where my research started in regards to farming and crafting (Possibly intended design?). I have to believe this will be worked on in time, Mostly because I feel like at Level 50, It'll be an absurdly long time to kill a mob if the ratio of Level:Mob HP stays the same.

For somebody in your situation, I do think the idea of a system where if you hover over a POI on the map, It'll give a brief description of the area with the players/groups inside, Mob levels, etc. We all know as the game progresses towards release, The map will get substantially bigger, and without fast travel, It'll be very heart breaking (especially to a new player) to go to an area to find the mobs completely different than how they once were. A system like the one I previously stated would prevent someone from walking across the world to be let down, and might possibly keep player retention when things get tough for solo players, Or players playing without friends online at that time.

I did brainstorm in discord with a few people recently regarding the matter of how zones will be leveled up and such and how the game can naturally protect new players from variables, One of which is "Where do I level", and another is protecting them from out of date guides, And this system did seem to please a lot of people. I would suggest the development team to possibly look into a system that does do this, or similarity in the matter. The idea of exploration would still exist considering they still have to get to the area. But players wouldn't feel like their time was wasted when they get there.

I do think your post is constructive however, as it's written with frustration. Those emotions sometimes can be great as you do let out all the things you've felt negatively about. I do hope there were some things you felt were good as well, Seeing as this game so far has been like a drug to me that I feen for when I'm not playing it. While there may be some negatives, there are plenty of positives as well.

Overall I do think this Alpha phase isn't for everyone. The Alpha 3 does plan on putting a lot of QOL into the game. We all do have to remember that we are testing Phases of the project. I would think a lot of things would be reworked over time. Most games, even on release, Or multiple expansions in rework a lot of their systems, implement new ones, or fully get rid of them after time. Have some patience, and realistically take a break from the game if you feel like it's not where you want it to be. I'm sure in due time things will change and become closer to what you feel is better.

Best of Luck
Best Regards
Duffelz

Terranigma1

oddstero wrote: »

You don't need a group to level. Instead of standing there spamming for a group, go out and kill stuff. Go out and gather stuff. Go out and craft stuff. All classes can currently solo just fine and there are plenty of ways to gain xp. Hell, fish. And then when someone is looking for a group or your class... join. I see plenty of people asking for Church groups on Vyra in primtetime and on the weekend so doesn't seem a valid complaint. And get out of the starter area. There's plenty to do besides goblins!

It's true that you don't need it if you got the time and will to invest so many hours into this playtest. Yet when you do, you realize - as I think many people did regarding the low tester retention - ... it's just boring.

Noaani

oddstero wrote: »

You don't need a group to level.

You don't, but you know what is more fun than solo leveling in Ashes?

Playing a different game.

Even with solo quests and such that are to be added to the game, it needs to be fun enough for people to specifically want to solo level in Ashes rather than play a different game.

Keep in mind, with group leveling - especially with a guild group - people have the added enjoyment and incentive of those people they are grouped up with. When you are solo, you don't have that, and so the enjoyment needs to be set to a point where players would opt to solo in Ashes rather than play another game.

Copperfield

starting with leveling after 5 months will be a pain as there are no groups to join

Volgaris

Copperfield wrote: »

starting with leveling after 5 months will be a pain as there are no groups to join

That's kind of the nature of all MMOs... Got to ride one of those first few ways to end game or forever be left behind. FOMO. No MMO has solved this problem though. But in Ashes nothing is BOP/E, so join a guild and get some hand me down gear. I passed some armor and weapons to a new fighter character I started and I leveled insanely quick, at least to 9. And it was fun, I did enjoy it, but then I got bored. Progression is has too many ebbs and not enough flows. This game is a 'end game' only game. Everything between start and level cap is just filler. The meat is at level cap, that's when the real grind and loot lottery start. So I wouldn't get hung up on the leveling process, there's bigger problems to worry about lol.

oddstero

Got news for you... if you think leveling with a group isn''t a grind... People literally stand in the same spot for hours killing the same respawns over and over and over. I personally find that more mind-numbing than soloing.

And play a different game then if you arent having fun. I personally enjoy exploring. I like riding around just hunting for resources.

xDrac

Agreed. In Phase 1 I got til about level 20 or something and once the wipe in Phase 2 happened I lost all will to login as there is barely any new content and we're still in the Riverlands throughout much of it (even if the desert is expanded now). Not to mention that what is available in the Riverlands feels very soulless, barren and boring to me. The systems still feel so rough that I'd rather just not log in right now.

SmileGurney

The insistence on forced teamplay for levelling is going to bite Ashes in the as...sooner or later. It won't be healthy for the player population and retention after the release. If anything grouping up should be encouraged, especially from the perspective of the game economy, but levelling should not be such a pain from a solo player perspective. It's enough you cannot gain good gear. Also there is no reason to punish players who join at a wrong time window.

Mahes

Volgaris wrote: »

Copperfield wrote: »

starting with leveling after 5 months will be a pain as there are no groups to join

That's kind of the nature of all MMOs... Got to ride one of those first few ways to end game or forever be left behind. FOMO. No MMO has solved this problem though. But in Ashes nothing is BOP/E, so join a guild and get some hand me down gear. I passed some armor and weapons to a new fighter character I started and I leveled insanely quick, at least to 9. And it was fun, I did enjoy it, but then I got bored. Progression is has too many ebbs and not enough flows. This game is a 'end game' only game. Everything between start and level cap is just filler. The meat is at level cap, that's when the real grind and loot lottery start. So I wouldn't get hung up on the leveling process, there's bigger problems to worry about lol.

I would like to point out that a lot of the popular MMO's have fairly easy ways to level solo. I know I could start playing World of Warcraft and have no issues reaching max level within a descent amount of time. The current problem with AoC is that the leveling takes a bit to long for a game that has PvP as a major part of the game.

Why is this important? Nobody is really going to consider PvPing until they are max level.

They will have to put in an easier way to level that does not revolve around killing 1000's of a mob. It is too repetitive and most people will just stop playing the game. I know many people who have stopped playing due to lack of content and the difficulty to start another class because there are too few people to find groups with.

Volgaris

Mahes wrote: »

Volgaris wrote: »

Copperfield wrote: »

starting with leveling after 5 months will be a pain as there are no groups to join

That's kind of the nature of all MMOs... Got to ride one of those first few ways to end game or forever be left behind. FOMO. No MMO has solved this problem though. But in Ashes nothing is BOP/E, so join a guild and get some hand me down gear. I passed some armor and weapons to a new fighter character I started and I leveled insanely quick, at least to 9. And it was fun, I did enjoy it, but then I got bored. Progression is has too many ebbs and not enough flows. This game is a 'end game' only game. Everything between start and level cap is just filler. The meat is at level cap, that's when the real grind and loot lottery start. So I wouldn't get hung up on the leveling process, there's bigger problems to worry about lol.

I would like to point out that a lot of the popular MMO's have fairly easy ways to level solo. I know I could start playing World of Warcraft and have no issues reaching max level within a descent amount of time. The current problem with AoC is that the leveling takes a bit to long for a game that has PvP as a major part of the game.

Why is this important? Nobody is really going to consider PvPing until they are max level.

They will have to put in an easier way to level that does not revolve around killing 1000's of a mob. It is too repetitive and most people will just stop playing the game. I know many people who have stopped playing due to lack of content and the difficulty to start another class because there are too few people to find groups with.

Right now the testing environment sucks. That's why people aren't playing much with exception to a few. Its not fun and takes too much time and too much is missing to even be able to gauge if it's going to fun or not. Talking about play testing is different than the game at launch. I'm fine with the game at launch being grindy and taking a while. There should be a BIG investment from the player to reach cap. If you trivialize it than why even have the leveling process? Which IMO is the problem with those MMOs that have a quick and easy streamline solo quest leveling process. You are right that a lot of people wait to PvP until they are at cap. The big reason is EXP debt. I'll avoid any risking situation until I'm at level cap. Take that away and I'll participate in PvP throughout the leveling process if there is a meaningful reason. Killing 10,000 mobs to level gets boring fast, but again there is a lot of "in development" and "placeholder" stuff. As annoying as it is to hear that over and over it is true, alpha is alpha. Alpha's goal isn't to be fun, it's to make sure the backend systems work. I'm not play testing unless they boost the exp, materials and drops. Even if I had time to grind away an Alpha test like a launched title I wouldn't.

Smaashley

I actually think that players should depend on other players the more they level up (crafting, gathering, leveling, etc). I shouldn't depend on a group of 8 players or 5 other professions to progress my character at level 20, that's just insane. Instead, the more level we get, the more we become dependent from other players, so when we hit level 50, majority of content must be done with friends, not at level 20. This is called progression. Make the game fun, not punishing.

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