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guard system sucks

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Comments

  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ludullu wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    At this point I think we as MMO fans need to start looking at the types of people who want the games, moreso than the financial incentives or 'design mistakes'.
    If only I'd have Steven's money. I'd definitely make the most middle ground mmo out there B) I'd call it The Fence.

    Yeah, and then 10% of your players would find a way to turn it to shit while complaining all the way that it wasn't even worse.

    That's just how it is for the PvP MMO genre, not because 'most PvP enjoyers want the game to be shit', but because the 10% that do want that are relentless just like the extreme carebears.

    The difference (or what used to be one) is that those relentless people can almost always find someone to sneak the shit into the game in the name of 'competition'. Sound familiar?

    Don't go burning money on garbage.
    Stellar Devotion.
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Ludullu wrote: »
    It'd be nice if they became weaker during node sieges of course, but I'd imagine that's already the plan, cause otherwise no one would be able to siege.

    I have never fought them -> but i also kinda got Wind of the Guard NPC's being kinda invincible.

    They have like +13.000 to +36.000 Life or something even at the LvL 1 Start Building, jeah ? :D and when they attack Corrupted-flagged Players it reminds me of Raid-strong NPC's attacking you in WoW Vanilla with Stuns or so. lol

    There is just no Chance of even several Players beating even a single one such NPC Guard. More like there have to be Six to Ten People efficiently attacking it at once. :D
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    I am in the guildless Guild so to say, lol. But i won't give up. I will find my fitting Guild "one Day".
  • REHOCREHOC Member
    I get the frustration, but I think the guard system isn't inherently bad, it’s just incomplete and poorly tuned right now.

    The purpose of guards, from what Intrepid has said, is not to make the nodes "safe zones" like in themepark MMOs, but to slow down enemy harassment, not outright prevent it. They’re meant to give citizens breathing room and make it risky for attackers to camp towns endlessly.

    Guards could scale over time, become more aggressive the longer an attacker lingers.

    Just my two cents. The real issue isn’t the existence of guards, it’s how ineffective and badly implemented they currently are.
    9ogtbxoqmpef.png
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited March 31
    Xeeg wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Xeeg wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    For what I hear the guard system seems promising, patrolling guards is very cool!
    Over time the system will have adjustments here and there and be fine

    I think it is worth having a guard system that lets people go into the enemy city and commando style just yoink some kills in their own place, this is thrilling!

    OK, I can understand this aspect from the attacker's perspective, if the guards are actually legit AI cool and this is a difficult task. But it's different when the attackers are maxed out 1 shotters and the only punishment for death by guards is the walk back from the emberspring. Contrast that with the noob at the storage, just trying to catch up and get some better gear so they can actually compete in PVP, getting 1 shotted and losing 1/2 the mats they were transferring from/to storage.

    The noob at the storage is risking WAY more, just to do a simple/fundamental task for progression in Ashes, while the person "commando styling the guards" doesnt even have to care about the guards because they can 1 shot the guy with mats before they die. Guy with mats loses 1/2 his shit, killer loses nothing. LULZ all the way back to storage. Guy with mats cant transfer or do anything.
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Carebears who play like bots without communicating with their fellow citizens must coordinate their defense as a group or suffer the consequences for playing like a NPC.

    Treating this as an issue of "Carebears who play like bots" is completely missing the point. In a game where professions are REQUIRED to catch up to gear score, there is a huge imbalance between the 1 shotter who doesnt care about guards at all and the regular player just doing a fundamental task - interacting with storage.

    This current setup only encourages anyone who is weaker than the 1 shotter to drop their node during node wars, or guild during guild wars, etc. Is this really the incentive we want to drive for players? Drop your affiliations because whoever is online and available is unable to defeat the other side?

    If you cant even interact with storage, your options in this game are quite limited, especially when you are already behind on gear progression.

    I stand by what I said, I fully get the struggle, and I’m saying it’s okay. If you’re weak, you’ve got to play the game, rely on someone stronger, and ask for help. If you end up dying because you’re weak, that’s your fault. Every group has its heavy hitters, they are the ones who step up as heroes, while you’re stuck playing the damsel in distress, just shouting for rescue.

    Newbies don’t sway the tide in conflicts, noobs don't matter, they’re just dead weight the strong have to lug around. If the citizens don't work for the group, maybe it’s time to ditch the group. Talk to the locals and to the mayor, see if they’ll step up. If they don’t give a damn, walk away since these people are not worth your time.

    Everything that happens to you and how you overcome everything is just content, it is your personal story.

    OK, sure, this is one form of logic... Just not sure how many people find this logic appealing when the vast majority are "weaker" than the top 1-shotters. Being locked out of storage impacts the majority of useful game loops, this is not an area where you want people to recklessly dominate "the weak".

    Storage should be one of the most secure places in the game because it directly links almost all of the game loops for power enhancement together. A PVP soft lock should be maybe happening to 1% of the population for a couple hours a month. Not every citizen/guildy for every weekend.

    Instead, your suggestion is that the players should start a new game loop which is called leaving their node/guild and finding a new one until they end up on the strongest team? Is this really the incentive people want in a game? I would think that people would still like to retain their guild/node and help them grow stronger, not just run away.

    I just dont see why storage access has to be involved in this whole thing, when all it is doing is gear gating people from storage due to node/guild affiliation. There can be many other ways/places to have conflict in the game that dont create this dynamic.

    Guards arent/havent been helpful for this type of griefing.

    That's not griefing, it's just the guards patrol route is not good right now and there might be an issue with blindpots.

    I agree that the storage being a choke point may be a problem.

    In other games like EVE, the biggest trade hub in the game is Jita and Jita is literally the all-time number 1 rank in player kills and it that solar system is a high security system where police instazaps criminals, and the game is a 100% loss game. People are still using the system and going there non stop, there's not a day there arent 2000 people in the system trading, killing and stealing. Losing stuff is not an issue, the issue is more like the guards aren't optimal right now and the storage is choke point and it's not being covered.

    I agree that the guards should attack war deccers who are at war againts the node itself, but in the case of guild wars there's nearly nothing that can be done by NPC, what can be done is working with other players and try to get these materials somewhere else... maybe trade with someone somewhere, go over there and do stuff away from these attackers. You absolutely gotta reach out others even if Intrepid fully fix how the guards operate.

    Almost always problems caused by players can be fixed by players.
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • XeegXeeg Member, Alpha Two
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    I agree that the guards should attack war deccers who are at war againts the node itself, but in the case of guild wars there's nearly nothing that can be done by NPC, what can be done is working with other players and try to get these materials somewhere else... maybe trade with someone somewhere, go over there and do stuff away from these attackers. You absolutely gotta reach out others even if Intrepid fully fix how the guards operate.

    But why take that risk? Would you pull out a bunch of lego braidwood to trade with someone when at any point in time someone can 1 shot u? Best to wait until it is over. That is the whole point of my argument, trade shuts down completely.

    You say "waiting on guards to pat" but they dont even need to pat when the guy can 1 shot u. Only risk to attacker is just respawn at emberspring, meanwhile u cant open your storage.
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    REHOC wrote: »
    I get the frustration, but I think the guard system isn't inherently bad, it’s just incomplete and poorly tuned right now.

    I think similar. It will be a bit different in the 1.0. Release Version i think. (Hope ^.^)

    Like they will STILL be a massive Pain for - for example - corrupted People. But not as invincible seeming as they are right now.
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    I am in the guildless Guild so to say, lol. But i won't give up. I will find my fitting Guild "one Day".
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    I have never fought them -> but i also kinda got Wind of the Guard NPC's being kinda invincible.
    Yeah, afaik they're near-unkillable and one-shot anyone, which is why I said that for sieges they should be weakened, if Intrepid do want to keep them around during the event itself.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    Xeeg wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    I agree that the guards should attack war deccers who are at war againts the node itself, but in the case of guild wars there's nearly nothing that can be done by NPC, what can be done is working with other players and try to get these materials somewhere else... maybe trade with someone somewhere, go over there and do stuff away from these attackers. You absolutely gotta reach out others even if Intrepid fully fix how the guards operate.

    But why take that risk? Would you pull out a bunch of lego braidwood to trade with someone when at any point in time someone can 1 shot u? Best to wait until it is over. That is the whole point of my argument, trade shuts down completely.

    You say "waiting on guards to pat" but they dont even need to pat when the guy can 1 shot u. Only risk to attacker is just respawn at emberspring, meanwhile u cant open your storage.

    When i do dangerous trading in another game i do in batches, overtime when both players trush each other more then we increase how big the batch is
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • XeegXeeg Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 1
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Xeeg wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    I agree that the guards should attack war deccers who are at war againts the node itself, but in the case of guild wars there's nearly nothing that can be done by NPC, what can be done is working with other players and try to get these materials somewhere else... maybe trade with someone somewhere, go over there and do stuff away from these attackers. You absolutely gotta reach out others even if Intrepid fully fix how the guards operate.

    But why take that risk? Would you pull out a bunch of lego braidwood to trade with someone when at any point in time someone can 1 shot u? Best to wait until it is over. That is the whole point of my argument, trade shuts down completely.

    You say "waiting on guards to pat" but they dont even need to pat when the guy can 1 shot u. Only risk to attacker is just respawn at emberspring, meanwhile u cant open your storage.

    When i do dangerous trading in another game i do in batches, overtime when both players trush each other more then we increase how big the batch is

    Does this mean that you will go grab some lego braidwood out of storage, right now in ashes, when there are red enemies around? What server u on and node citizen?
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Xeeg wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Xeeg wrote: »
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    I agree that the guards should attack war deccers who are at war againts the node itself, but in the case of guild wars there's nearly nothing that can be done by NPC, what can be done is working with other players and try to get these materials somewhere else... maybe trade with someone somewhere, go over there and do stuff away from these attackers. You absolutely gotta reach out others even if Intrepid fully fix how the guards operate.

    But why take that risk? Would you pull out a bunch of lego braidwood to trade with someone when at any point in time someone can 1 shot u? Best to wait until it is over. That is the whole point of my argument, trade shuts down completely.

    You say "waiting on guards to pat" but they dont even need to pat when the guy can 1 shot u. Only risk to attacker is just respawn at emberspring, meanwhile u cant open your storage.

    When i do dangerous trading in another game i do in batches, overtime when both players trush each other more then we increase how big the batch is

    Does this mean that you will go grab some lego braidwood out of storage, right now in ashes, when there are red enemies around? What server u on and node citizen?

    Even if you're being 'sarcastic', you gotta understand that yes, Arya really will just do that.

    EVE players are quite seriously built different.

    I only say this in case you are trying to make a point.
    Stellar Devotion.
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