Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Why Summoner should be a melee Archetype
Birqa
Member, Alpha Two
We have 8 Archetypes planned.
Current Melee:_____________Current Range:
Tank ____________________ Ranger
Fighter __________________ Mage
(Rogue in stealth) __________Cleric
_________________________Bard
Mmos in general have the issue of being range meta often. to lessen those probabilities its important to have at least the same amount of melee classes as range. To achieve that summoner has to be a melee Archetype. i could see it being similar to rogue with one or two range abilities and the rest melee focus. of course summoner will have the abilities from their summons so i expect there will be melee and range options. same as dps tank heal and utility options.
I am aware that most people think of a summoner as a range class with their pets being melee or range but that would lead to 5 range Archetypes and only 2 and a half melee.
So game design wise: Thats why Summoner should be a melee Archetype!
Im interested in discussing that with everyone here
Current Melee:_____________Current Range:
Tank ____________________ Ranger
Fighter __________________ Mage
(Rogue in stealth) __________Cleric
_________________________Bard
Mmos in general have the issue of being range meta often. to lessen those probabilities its important to have at least the same amount of melee classes as range. To achieve that summoner has to be a melee Archetype. i could see it being similar to rogue with one or two range abilities and the rest melee focus. of course summoner will have the abilities from their summons so i expect there will be melee and range options. same as dps tank heal and utility options.
I am aware that most people think of a summoner as a range class with their pets being melee or range but that would lead to 5 range Archetypes and only 2 and a half melee.
So game design wise: Thats why Summoner should be a melee Archetype!
Im interested in discussing that with everyone here
2
Comments
Just something to take into account
Also im kinda hoping they make ranger a hybrid range/melee class you have range skills and a bit of melee mixed in (crowfall did rangers the best imo) they had a few melee combos and then range ability ontop of that
Do you want to force Summoners to not use Wands or Focii? Because even tanks can do that. Wand Tanks dancing around slow enemies is an entire specific way of gaining exp.
Veeshan made a good point, EVERY archetype should have 2 melee variants between the tank/fighter sub archetypes at the least, but choosing mage sub type on a fighter wont make you a caster.
Personally though, I wouldn't take the risk of turning Summoner into a melee archetype. Many players, myself included, imagine Summoner as a ranged or mid-range class that commands from a distance while their summons do the frontline work.
It’s a tricky balance, and in the end, only the devs know what direction they’re aiming for in terms of combat roles and class identity. I’m really curious to see what they come up with.
Cool topic to think about either way!
so to answer some of the comments, by the way thanks for the input, i assume that in a best case scenario summoner will be the archetype that can be melee or range depending on their summons.
"Abilities from the summon appear on the summoner's hotbar"
having 4 archetypes for melee and range each would also influence the class building since you would have 4 options for secondaries to get some melee or range capabilities together with their augmentation schools.
if your character is ranged or melee comes from the abilities @Azherae. you can use a range weapon with any character but killing something with only auto attacks vs having abilities to help with that is a massive difference.
as for class fantasy. thats why i had this sentence in my original post already: I am aware that most people think of a summoner as a range class with their pets being melee or range but that would lead to 5 range Archetypes and only 2 and a half melee.
i would love summoner to be the hybrid that can fit all roles, only one at a time, so we could have them in melee and range. but game design wise i disagree with myself
at the end i agree with what @REHOC said: "It’s a tricky balance, and in the end, only the devs know what direction they’re aiming for in terms of combat roles and class identity. I’m really curious to see what they come up with"
lets hope they cook something reeeeaal cool for us
thx again for all the input
Even just the difference in how much space there is for players around a target vs how much space there is for players within casting range of a target should tell you that the kotion of balancing melee and caster is a foolish notion to even consider, let alone design around.
@Azherae : bards dances are like midrange while most targeted skills are ranged so theres not much incetive to get in melee to be hit more easily. in my experience, when you can play something in range or melee people tend to choose range most of the time.
i would also be totally fine with bards skills being changed in range so they become more incentivised to be melee so summoner can be that range fantasy.
my whole point is still just that mmos tend to have a ranged meta and they suffer from it.
really nice to have this conversation ongoing btw
Keep in mind that the three primary melee play styles are already present.
The defensive melee, the Tank.
The pure melee, the Fighter.
The stealth melee, the Rogue.
Side note. Both the Cleric and the Bard offer some hybrid caster and melee options.
Yeah man this is a cool idea. Puts the summoner in melee with his pets or maybe even tanking for them. I assume there will be some range pets anyways. He can always use a wand or bow just like anyone else, but only have a couple range abilities. More melee cleave abilities or touch abilities for his pets even? Maybe pet teleports could help with mobility.
im all for dots on summoner. imagine spirit breath and a skill that lets u jump on your pet to charge into your enemy like @Xeeg mentioned. sounds really fun. wear them down with all your debuffs
I can see that with the Brood Warden, Summoner/Tank class. A guess that is the bug summoning class.
Since as a Brood Warden the Summoner takes on some of the Tank features, one idea would be a Brood Warden summons a large, powerful bug to mount and be a direct tank while riding that large bug.
Blown past falling sands…
just linking the little unconfirmed leaks that we got so far.
does that sound more melee or range, what do you think?
I can this as well. Summoner/fighter acting like a white lion from Warhammer or Summoner/rogue being a melee with a pet.
Blown past falling sands…
if its similar to the mage beam its midrange with like 15m. i agree though that its a bad sign
i like the snare ^^
the dot ability could be both but withe the beam together probably range. maybe they could make it a multiple choice where its either ranged or melee but melee gets more dmg or lifesteal or some statuseffect etc
No True Summoner wants to cut or punch things! Except mine, cause she's awesome... and every other Summoner I've ever seen, because I played a game like that. And most fans of things like Solo Leveling. And...
Wait...
Nah, all the good pet classes are mage-like. There's no good melee pet class.
Good point, @Azherae, on being able to lean into range or melee through weapon choice. As @Veeshan pointed out, secondary classes could offer interesting ways of choosing predominantly ranged or melee builds!
Well obv just going 'nuh uh' or even providing reference isn't going to sway you, but I provide it anyway.
https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Puppetmaster
I'll assume you would consider this also not good, and that's fine, to each their own.
Like it or now, AoC is still missing the DoT and pet Archetype(s). The Summoner could fill both roles.
What the akshual hell am I even looking at? What is that thing?
Yes, my fellow Necromancer ... ... ...
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
I am in the guildless Guild so to say, lol. But i won't give up. I will find my fitting Guild "one Day".
as well as quick video about the four summoner classes in L2
i have no idea about the L2 summoners but one seems to be mostly melee oriented. if someone played L2 and could provide some insights. that would be great.
movement from summons:
other than that i thought about the summon ai. especially since some of them are looking real melee based.
two examples: if an enemy climbes onto a rock with the mantle that characters can use, how or is the summon be able to follow and keep attacking.
second example: if i jump from one rock to another using space + dodge, how or is my summon able to follow me.
to get those interactions right is imo really important to make the summoner a viable but not overpowered archetype. id be interested in your thoughts
and btw: a true summoner is divers enough to not let others decide their role or range for them